First Sour - Is my plan sound?

[paulster2626]

So I want to make a sour because I just tell that 2016 Paulster will wish 2015 Paulster had started this, just as 2015 Paulster wishes 2014 Paulster had more foresight.

Anyway, I'm new to this. Not brewing, just souring. So here's my plan, will this work?

1. Brew 20L of beer. Whatever - it'll be 2 row and M.O., and something else in there to make it end up at an SRM of about 15 because I want it to end up looking like the beer on the cover of American Sour Beers. It'll have 8IBU because I heard that's good on a podcast.
2. Chill, put it in a Better Bottle, and toss in some Wyeast Roselaire.
3. Let it ferment in my 74F dining room for X days (I have chosen 30 for X)
4. Rack to a second BB so it can age for a year or whatever, and use the original cake to get started on the next one.

Now - is it okay for me to just rack it to the aging vessel without adding more organisms? I'd be purposefully sucking up some of the original cake to go with it - just a bit, not too much. I don't have glass, but I figure O2 permeability won't be an issue because Roselaire has brett in it.

Orrrrr, can I just leave that thing on the original cake and let it ride for 12 months? Would I need to worry about autolysis from the brett or sacch in there (is there even sacch in there)?

Normally I don't care about all of this minor stuff, but since these are going to take me 12 months to learn my lessons, I need to squabble over the details now.

 

[youreanimpulse]

Rack so you can brew another one faster, but leaving it on the cake won't hurt it. I would add viable bottle dregs in secondary. Also add dregs to the second brew. It'll speed them up some (1st gen roes is really slow).

 

[bmiller8]

I've never racked to secondary....

 

[iijakii]

Orrrrr, can I just leave that thing on the original cake and let it ride for 12 months? Would I need to worry about autolysis from the brett or sacch in there (is there even sacch in there)?

Autolysis is not a concern when Brett is involved. You can leave it in primary.

 

[foltster]

Try not to use dark malts (darker than say 200 SRM) unless they are de husked. So Carafa if you want to use a dark malt.

I would consider adding some flaked oats.

I would highly recommend adding some bottle dregs of any sour beers you enjoy, that have viable dregs in the bottle.

Secondary in something with a good seal and a minimal amount of head space. A bucket doesn't really qualify for those requirements but some people to do use buckets. I only use glass and plastic carboys. Brett loves O2, but if you give it too much two things can happen...Brett can create acetic acid, and acetobacter can create acetic acid. Too much acetic and you will have vinegar not beer.

Personally I would ferment no higher than 70F.

According to reports on Roeselare, do not expect this beer to be more than mildy tart. I have heard a lot of reports that a repitch of Roeselare is somewhat more sour.

 

[wardens355]

Orrrrr, can I just leave that thing on the original cake and let it ride for 12 months? Would I need to worry about autolysis from the brett or sacch in there (is there even sacch in there)?

In his sours book, Michael Tonsmiere (Mad Fermentationist) says that leaving a sour beer on primary cake for the entirety of the aging process will result in a rustic funk associated with autolysis (lambic-like) that will not be as clean as if you transferred to a secondary vessel. Not necessarily bad, but may develop a slightly different character one way or the other.

 

[madscientist451]

So I want to make a sour because I just tell that 2016 Paulster will wish 2015 Paulster had started this, just as 2015 Paulster wishes 2014 Paulster had more foresight.

+ to that idea, I wish I had started my sour "program" earlier.
Your plan looks good to me, I'm doing the same thing, I've got a Flander's red
batch going and will rack it off the yeast cake at some point and re-use the cake for another beer. I'm trying ECY "bug farm". 3 months in and not much sour yet. Your malt bill is somewhat vague, I'd get that firmed up, maybe use the malt bill that rare barrel uses , its described in the sour hour podcast and can be found on line. Higher mash temps provide more long chain sugars that will be available to brett and/or lacto you introduce. If you want more sourness quicker you could add a commercial lacto strain before your yeast blend. Adding bottle dregs is usually recommended, but remember most bottle conditioned beer has extra yeast added to help the carbonation, so the results are unpredictable.
Good Luck & cheers!

 

[feinbera]

Another potential route is all-dregs, which I've heard are more potent than Roeselare etc., at least on the first generation. I've been culturing dregs from 2-4 beers in a cup of light (1.020 - 1.030) wort; you can do it in a glass jug or right in the bottle, should pellicle up in a couple weeks. Then swirl it up to pick up anything that's settled out and co-pitch with a dry Belgian strain (T-58, but I don't think it actually matters too much which one).

Sadly, you'll have to ask 2016 feinbera how it comes out; 2014 feinbera was similarly lacking in foresight, what's the deal with these lazy 2014'ers??? Anyway, the one batch I've racked over to secondary pellicled up pretty good after a few weeks in primary, though it was still pretty bland at that point.