First Dry Hop - Questions

[Wingy]

So I made up my second batch yesterday and decided to try for an IPA this time around. I'd like to try a dry hop with 1.5 oz of Cascade and had a few questions on when to rack to secondary - should I have any problems if I follow the 1-2-3 rule or is it better to leave it in the primary for 2 weeks followed by 2 weeks in the secondary for dry hopping?

Misc - it took awhile for the wort to come down to 75 degrees (added the post-boil wort directly to cold water in the primary and topped off with cold water, temp stayed at 85-90 for a while)... if it was covered the whole time is it pretty safe to say that infection is not super likely? Pitched liquid yeast so I'm hoping the nice healthy yeast culture will knock out any nasties... Next time I will stick with cooling the post-boil wort in ice water while it's still in the brewpot (much faster). Thanks!

 

[unionrdr]

I did that on my 1st one. Let it sit longer after FG is reached so it can clean up all those nasty by-products. Even 3-4 weeks is ok,but check it after 3 weeks. If it smells good,& is mostly settled but still a bit hazy,dry hop it. I did that on my last one. All in primary,which greatly reduces the risk of infection,or oxygenation. O2 is bad at that point.

 

[dmbRedGetta]

Do at least 2 weeks in the primary before dry-hopping. Ideally, you should wait until fermentation is complete (ie - hydrometer readings a couple days apart come up the same) so the hop aroma isn't lost with the CO2.

Whether you dry-hop in the primary or rack to a secondary is up to you. A lot of people on here will do it in the primary, but I just moved mine to a secondary because I've never done a secondary before and wanted to try it out. Are you dry hopping with pellets or leafs? Are you planning on using a grain bag/hop ball, or just dumping them in? Are you going to dry-hop in a bucket or carboy?

Also, I doubt you're infected. But it sounds like you learned a good lesson!

Edit: You might want to start sampling your beer after 7 days of dry-hopping. I've heard from others that the hops will impart grassy notes if left in for too long (2 weeks seems to be the longest you should leave them in). So just make sure you monitor that.

 

[unionrdr]

Well,the reason I mentioned dry hoping after FG is reached & clearing to a slight haze is for the simple fact that the settling yeasties will drag the hop oils out of suspension with them. Not so much so with the escaping CO2.

 

[Wingy]

Thanks all, I was planning to just use pellets and add them directly without a bag - is there any downside to this method? I may just keep the beer in the primary for 3-4 weeks, unless I would get a major improvement in clarity by switching to a secondary (free secondary=more room to make some Apfelwein...).

Edit: Thanks for the tip about sampling after 1 week - didn't know that leaving the hops in for too long could be negative.

 

[unionrdr]

Thanks all, I was planning to just use pellets and add them directly without a bag - is there any downside to this method? I may just keep the beer in the primary for 3-4 weeks, unless I would get a major improvement in clarity by switching to a secondary (free secondary=more room to make some Apfelwein...).

There isn't much advantage to secondary in a straight up brew. Just wait till it hits FG,& clears to a light haze to dry hop. You don't want the settling yeasties to drag the hop oils out of suspension. And just tossing the pellets in is fine to some. But I think that when they settle to the bottom,they'd be on top of everything else & maybe make it through the siphon. I get cleaner beer using hop sacks.

 

[dmbRedGetta]

@unionrdr, that's interesting. I've only heard of people saying to wait until after fermentation to stop, but I didn't think about settling. I might have to split my next batch and try that... I'm really curious to see how much that would affect things.

@Wingy, my LHBS always does a secondary, so that's why I'm trying it. I don't mind hop debris floating around in my beer, but I know some people want the clearest beer they can get. I'll let you know how mine goes when I bottle this weekend -- I've got 2oz of hop pellets floating around in mine right now. Most have already settled out, and it's only been 4 days.

 

[Wingy]

There isn't much advantage to secondary in a straight up brew. Just wait till it hits FG,& clears to a light haze to dry hop. You don't want the settling yeasties to drag the hop oils out of suspension. And just tossing the pellets in is fine to some. But I think that when they settle to the bottom,they'd be on top of everything else & maybe make it through the siphon. I get cleaner beer using hop sacks.

Thanks for the advice - based on this I will probably skip the secondary and add the pellets in a hop bag. Will the bag float on it's own with the hops in it? I'm assuming that sterilizing the bag first is a must?

 

[ThePearsonFam]

I add straight to the primary after ~ 2 weeks of fermentation. Letting the FG readings stabilize and then waiting another 5-7 days will allow the yeast to clean up the beer better than dumping the hops in as soon as FG stabilizes. The hop oils will encapsulate the yeast (same thing it does to bacteria which is why the Brists used it for long-distance stabilization) and cause tehm to be less productive. I simply dump the pellets straight into the primary (no need to sanitize, they're good to go). I let them sit for a week and then rack to my keg or bottling bucket.

 

[ThePearsonFam]

Thanks for the advice - based on this I will probably skip the secondary and add the pellets in a hop bag. Will the bag float on it's own with the hops in it? I'm assuming that sterilizing the bag first is a must?

Put some marbles in it if you're going to use a bag. Don't forget to sanitize the marbles and bag. Hops don't need to be sanitized...

 

[unionrdr]

Well,the point is yes,you must reach FG for the yeast to start settling out of suspension. Yes,it's always good to let them clean up after the party to make the beer taste cleaner. Not to mention clear up quite a bit. Just to a light haziness.
Yes,you will still have plenty of yeasties left to carbonate & condition with. After the clean up,it's safer to dry hop,as more of the hop oils will stay in suspension.

 

[Wingy]

Put some marbles in it if you're going to use a bag. Don't forget to sanitize the marbles and bag. Hops don't need to be sanitized...

Why marbles? To get the bag/pellets down toward the yeast cake?

 

[ThePearsonFam]

yup... only needed if you're worried about it though... I don't use a bag at all. I'm lazy and don't worry about it.

 

[Wingy]

Well,the point is yes,you must reach FG for the yeast to start settling out of suspension. Yes,it's always good to let them clean up after the party to make the beer taste cleaner. Not to mention clear up quite a bit. Just to a light haziness.
Yes,you will still have plenty of yeasties left to carbonate & condition with. After the clean up,it's safer to dry hop,as more of the hop oils will stay in suspension.

Great advice - I'll try to ignore this batch for 2 weeks while I let the yeasties do their thing and check on it then... I'm getting excited for this one.

 

[Acoma]

Why marbles? To get the bag/pellets down toward the yeast cake?

To sink the hops.

 

[Wingy]

yup... only needed if you're worried about it though... I don't use a bag at all. I'm lazy and don't worry about it.

The only reason I would be concerned is to avoid hop particles sneaking their way into a bottle, but I'm hoping that careful siphoning and sinking to the bottom of the bottling bucket will let me avoid that if I just add the pellets.

 

[dmbRedGetta]

Well, the pellets disintegrate. I've seen people wrap the end of their siphon with cheesecloth as a way of straining them out, but it might be easier just to use a bag if you're worried about it.

 

[unionrdr]

The pellets do not disintegrate in the sense of disappearing. They turn into a grainy paste that,in a hop sack,swells to about the size of a baseball with just 1oz of pellets! So yeah,it is something to be concerned about. Not a really huge deal,but I think it's better to make the extra effort now,then have floaters in your glass later.
Not to mention all the other things I mentioned to get a crystal clear beer naturally.

 

[dmbRedGetta]

Yeah, I guess that wasn't the best term. Just from looking at my carboy, I know I'm going to end up sucking up some of the hop debris floating around in there. But, like I said, I'm okay with that. The last Ruination I had definitely had some particles floating around in it, and it tasted great!

You do bring up some good points, and if clear beer is a concern, I definitely agree that taking steps to avoid it while the hops are still manageable pellets is way easier than trying to filter them out afterwards!

 

[Wingy]

Did not realize that hop pellets could swell up that large. I definitely agree that it's worth five minutes of boiling a hop sack with some marbles in it to avoid stress later...

 

[ThePearsonFam]

I look at it this way. I drop my pellets into primary and siphon into my keg or bottling bucket (leaving 99% of the hops/yeast/trub behind in the primary). Even more is left behind in the bottling bucket or settles out when I throw my keg in the fridge...

Now, something to consider is, do you intend to rinse/wash and repitch your yeast? If so, then it is probably worth using a secondary to keep the majority of the yeast cake free from the dry hop influence. Unless you plan to repitch into another IPA.

 

[Wingy]

I look at it this way. I drop my pellets into primary and siphon into my keg or bottling bucket (leaving 99% of the hops/yeast/trub behind in the primary). Even more is left behind in the bottling bucket or settles out when I throw my keg in the fridge...

Now, something to consider is, do you intend to rinse/wash and repitch your yeast? If so, then it is probably worth using a secondary to keep the majority of the yeast cake free from the dry hop influence. Unless you plan to repitch into another IPA.

Nope, the only reason I was going to secondary was to help clarify the beer and because the homebrew books treat it like a gospel truth, but if I can great results by leaving it in the primary then I don't see any reason to risk extra infection/oxidation by transferring. I don't have a set-up yet to store yeast and repitch so that's not a concern.

 

[ThePearsonFam]

just my $0.02 but I wouldn't sweat it... Maybe try it both ways and see which serves you better. That's what I always try to do on topics like this. It really comes down to your personal preferences and goals. I'm lazy about this sort of thing but OCD over others. You need to decide what aspects you're gonna sweat more than others.

 

[jonmohno]

I dont know after looking at all that hop debri that doesnt settle to the bottem i think im going to have a hard time racking to a bottleling bucket with this mess.I just did my first dryhop with pellots,they disperse into tiny pices and float around ,stay at the top, and some on the bottem, should i cold crash it or would i be fine using some nylon around the auto siphon.? If it starts clogging the filter it starts oxyegenating it pretty bad at the end.

 

[fdexclpl]

Sorry, wrong thread!

 

[ThePearsonFam]

I dont know after looking at all that hop debri that doesnt settle to the bottem i think im going to have a hard time racking to a bottleling bucket with this mess.I just did my first dryhop with pellots,they disperse into tiny pices and float around ,stay at the top, and some on the bottem, should i cold crash it or would i be fine using some nylon around the auto siphon.? If it starts clogging the filter it starts oxyegenating it pretty bad at the end.

Just siphon into your keg or bottling bucket with your autosiphon (no filter needed). Just try to minimize the amount of hops you transfer with siphon placement (you'll see what I mean when you do it). If you're bottling, 99.9% of the [little bit of] hops that transferred will be left behind. If you're kegging, the hops will settle when you stuff the keg in the fridge and chill. Your first couple pours --may-- have some hop sediment but it'll stop. I just drink those first couple myself since I don't mind.

Again, I'm not worried too much because I'm brewing for me, not for sale or to give it away. If someone doesn't want to drink the free, fresh, delicious, hoppy, aromatic, awesome IPA that I'm giving them, then screw 'em.

 

[jonmohno]

Crap, i knew i should have checked this before i bottled.I use a piece of nylon and i dont think im ever again going to use anykind of filter, it oxidizes it, and i lost 2 beers in the process, and doing under 2 gal that 2 bottles hurt to not be able to rack and go down the drain,Next time im using a hopbag for those pellots i about shed a tear at the thought of wasting 2 beers from it being unrackable.
As for anybody else: always refer to this site before making your own guess.
So if i cold crashed would the hops debri all settle to the bottem?