First Breakfast Stout - Critique Wanted

[ConorO]

Hello all,

I currently have my third brew, a double IPA, in a dry hop. As soon as I bottle, I hope to start the next ale: a breakfast stout. I'm not necessarily trying to stay in a particular framework, but rather am throwing together what I might envision to be a breakfast stout based upon what I've drunk and eaten in this young life of mine. Please, lend me your wisdom: what would you do differently?

Batch size: 5 Gallons Mash: Full-body

OG: 1.064 FG: 1.017 ABV: 6.2%
IBU: 27 SRM: ~40

Yeast: Safale 05 (subject to change based upon what the local shop has in stock)

Grain Bill:
8 lbs Marris Otter
2 lbs Flaked Oats
1 lbs Chocolate Malt
8 oz Black Patent - - - * 8 oz Roasted Barley
8 oz Crystal 120
4 oz Victory Malt

(*= amended item or substitution)

Hops:

1 oz Golding @ 60 min
1 oz Fuggle @ 30 min

Additions during secondary:
-4-8* oz of ground, frost-brewed (actually just cold-brewed) Tally Ho Coffee reduced to a volume of 1 cup or so.
-Maybe cocoa nibs/vanilla?

I am looking for a thick, dark, rich stout with a bold roast flavor and a subtle hint of sweetness. This was just mocked-up, so please feel to tear it apart as you see fit.

Cheers!

 

[chuckthebutcher]

A stout by definition should have some roasted barley. I would replace the black patent with roasted barley. Might want to double the coffee for a 5 gallon batch. Cocao nibs and/or vanilla would add to the complexity and flavor as well. Looks good

 

[SpeedYellow]

I'd shoot for 7-10% roasted malts, and like chuckthebutcher suggests, ditch the Black Patent malt for roasted barley. But I despise Black malt, and banned it from my stouts anyways. Ymmv.

 

[Gavin C]

That's a lot of oats and chocolate in addition to all the other specialty unfermentable grains. Very black and bitter I reckon.

30% specialty grains/adjuncts depending on how you want to classify the oats. A retooling of the recipe I think is in order. Cut the percentage in half or a third.

Roasted barley for a stout.

 

[ConorO]

That's a lot of oats and chocolate in addition to all the other specialty unfermentable grains. Very black and bitter I reckon.

30% specialty grains/adjuncts depending on how you want to classify the oats. A retooling of the recipe I think is in order. Cut the percentage in half or a third.

Roasted barley for a stout.

I'm not afraid of black and bitter - I'm looking for that in a certain degree. However, you think it'd be undrinkable as is? 19.4% would be the total specialty malt bill - excluding the oatmeal. The very first beer I brewed only called for .5lbs of oats . . . That was far too little, in my opinion. I read some man who wrote that his oatmeal stouts average 20% oats in the grain bill. They offer more mouthfeel than anything, correct?

I'd shoot for 7-10% roasted malts, and like chuckthebutcher suggests, ditch the Black Patent malt for roasted barley. But I despise Black malt, and banned it from my stouts anyways. Ymmv.

I've made the note to swap out the black malt for the roasted malt above. Do the Roasted Barley and Chocolate malt qualify as the two only "roasted" malts above? If so, I'm looking at 12.3% of the grain bill as being roasted malt. Is that something you could life with?

 

[Gavin C]

Still too much in the way of adjuncts/specialty malts. Just looks very unbalanced for a stout. But to each their own when it comes to planned flavors.

A pound of chocolate is just way too much IMO as is the heavy dose of crystal 120.

 

[ConorO]

Still too much in the way of adjuncts/specialty malts. Just looks very unbalanced for a stout. But to each their own when it comes to planned flavors.

A pound of chocolate is just way too much IMO as is the heavy dose of crystal 120.

Would you recommend boosting the Marris Otter or cutting the specialty malts? I simply don't want too thin, nor too pale, of a stout.

 

[m00ps]

I think the recipe as it stand now is perfectly fine. Im not sure what the deal is with 30% specialty/adjuncts. I always stay 20% or lower on specialty grains but consider adjuncts (oats wheat rye corn rice sugars) as part of the base malt due to how fermentable they are. Ive never had an issue with going to 30% adjuncts even with a bit of specialty grains added. Ive even seen people talking about recipes with 100% adjuncts so I certainly wouldnt consider them in the same category as something like victory or crystal

I normally use 4 oz cacao nibs, 2 vanilla beans, and 4 oz whole bean coffee in my flavored stouts. You could also mash higher and add 1/2-1lb lactose for more body

Here's my maple breakfast stout for reference:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=496504

 

[ConorO]

I think the recipe as it stand now is perfectly fine. Im not sure what the deal is with 30% specialty/adjuncts. I always stay 20% or lower on specialty grains but consider adjuncts (oats wheat rye corn rice sugars) as part of the base malt due to how fermentable they are. Ive never had an issue with going to 30% adjuncts even with a bit of specialty grains added. Ive even seen people talking about recipes with 100% adjuncts so I certainly wouldnt consider them in the same category as something like victory or crystal

I normally use 4 oz cacao nibs, 2 vanilla beans, and 4 oz whole bean coffee in my flavored stouts. You could also mash higher and add 1/2-1lb lactose for more body

Here's my maple breakfast stout for reference:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=496504

Thank you for the feedback. I was feeling content with this recipe, but I like to get a second opinion being so new to the art. I was planning to do a high-temp mash and flavor with cold-brew coffe/perhaps vanilla or cocoa as per your suggestion. However, I may add lactose near bottling as I would rather add that body and sweetness after tasting the fermented brew. Is that a reasonable procedure?

*Edit: Also, your recipe seems delicious. I may try the whole beans in the fermenter instead of the cold-brewed coffee.

 

[olotti]

I second the whole bean method. I used this when I rebrewed my Moka stout and I course crushed 2oz and used another 3 whole bean soaked in vodka for a couple days and got a nice aroma from this method.

 

[m00ps]

Yeah Ive added lactose into fermentation before. Im wary to go above 1/2lb after some overly sweet beers using a full lb. The attenuation and everything has a lot to due with the overall perceived sweetness of the beer so Id wait if you arent sure you want it. Just mix it in water and boil it to get it dissolved and sanitized