First bad batch - "band-aid" taste

[dyqik]

So, I have what I think is going to be my first down-the-drain batch, after about 20 batches. The recipe is the familiar Nierra Sevada all-grain recipe (with minor hop substitutions to use up leftover hops as part of the bittering addition), fermented with US-05 at 68F, rising to 70F as fermentation dies down, then cold crashed after three days at FG before kegging. Temperatures were controlled using an STC-1000 equipped fridge and seed starter heating pad with the probe in a thermowell in a bucket fermenter.

I get a chemical phenol type taste on top of the malt and bitterness, which is stronger as the beer warms after serving. I'm not otherwise familiar with the chloramine taste described as "band-aid", but this seems to be a good description to me. But possibly it's a different taste (and slight smell) from that region of the various "color wheels" of off tastes. I don't get any other off-tastes - this taste is a very clear and separate taste from the typical hoppy pale-ale tastes in the beer.

At the moment, I can think of two options for the source of this.

First is that the rubber grommet used to seal the airlock to the fermenter lid dropped into the beer when I was installing the airlock after pitching (rehydrated) yeast and sealing the lid. I fitted another grommet from a different lid, but I guess that infection is possible.

Second is that I used town water to brew this batch - I think my town uses chloramine, although I'm not entirely sure, and I added 1/4 Campden tablet to each of the 5 gallons of strike water and 5 gallons of sparge water, and I have a Ward Labs report from last fall that indicates that the water quality then was ok to good for brewing middle of the road styles. Since the town's water comes from a number of wells near the town, I guess that the water content may change seasonally.

However, my town has had some recent water quality issues with TTHMs - details. I brewed this batch March 12th, but brewed an Irish Red two weeks before that, and a Bitter four weeks before, which don't have this issue. Could excess chlorination or other contaminants related to TTHMs and the clean-up after them cause this off taste? I guess that might be a better question for the Brew Science forum.

Any other ideas?

 

[Homercidal]

Band-aid, or plastic, flavor is commonly associated with chloramine/chlorine. Good that you used some campden tabs, so I don't know how it persisted through the process to the beer.

I'd consider using store-bought spring water, or better yet, use RO water and treat it with your own mineral additions and some campden tabs (If your RO water comes from the municipal supply since chloramine is very hard to remove without a very slow filtering through charcoal...)

IMO it's worth the effort to figure out water calculations.

Of course you can't rule out the rubber bung, either. Those things smell strongly, and I can't imagine they wouldn't lend some of that aroma to the beer. And infections can change a beer's character in several ways, including taste, aroma, and body.

 

[dmtaylor]

Yep, both of those are possibilities. It's actually very possible the town jacked up their chlorine treatment to the point that 1/4 tablet wasn't enough. I know a guy who works for the water treatment in my city and he said that every spring and fall there is an increase in chemical treatments based on changes in microbiology in the raw water, and how they get their water, etc. The one time I ever experienced the dreaded band-aid flavor in my homebrew, I recall telling him that I had brewed that batch in March, i.e., spring time, prime time for big chlorine treatment. I had never had any problems before that batch. Since that time I have always treated with Campden and have not had another problem (this was all ~10 years ago).

But yeah, could also be from rubber, that's very possible too.

 

[dyqik]

Yeah, I thinking that the town might have jacked up the chlorine, both because they're hydrant flushing, and because of the TTHM situation. I've sent a message via their contact form (we're only a small town, so I might get a response) to see if they can shed any light on it.

I do do water calculations and corrections with bru'n'water. I usually just do basic sulfate:chloride ratios and use lactic acid for mash and sparge acidification, as I don't think it's worth going much beyond that.

I think I'm just going to rebrew with some purchased water for now, and obviously without the rubber grommet in the brew. I will go back to town water later I think, but I'll wait until the TTHM situation is cleared up.

 

[pvpeacock]

My water supply has chloramine so I use 1/2 campden tablet per 5 gallons without any problem. However, a year or so ago I had a band aid flavor to all of my beers. I eventually tracked it down to the fact that I was putting a tap bush soaked in starsan into my faucet after every pour. I thought this would keep it clean and sanitary. Instead it gave me that band aid flavor. As soon as I stopped using the brush, the flavor was gone.

 

[dyqik]

I don't do anything like that, but I have only just put the keg on, and I cleaned the lines with BLC when I did. But I'm pretty sure I also detected the taste in the FG hydrometer sample I took when kegging the beer.

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

I thought the rule was 1 Campden tablet for 5 gallons.I use 2 for a ten gallon batch.Am I off? Can you overdo Campden?

 

[Homercidal]

I thought the rule was 1 Campden tablet for 5 gallons.I use 2 for a ten gallon batch.Am I off? Can you overdo Campden?

1 tablet for 20 gallons. Therefore 1/4 tab for 5 gallons. I use 1/2 tab because it's easier to measure (break a tablet in two, put 1/2 back in container, break remaining half in two and grind up into powder. Add to other salts, 1/4 tab for mash, 1/4 tab for sparge.)

Winemakers use a LOT more than this in making wine. I don't think you will affect much using the dosage you use.

 

[Yooper]

While it is most likely chlorine or chloramine in the water, the other cause that I know for phenolic off-flavors is infection.

I had a "band aid beer" a while back that I tracked bag to a contaminated/infection yeast starter. Certain bacteria strains will produce those phenolic flavors, and they are very similar to the flavor of chlorophenols. Sometimes this also has a hint of a "smoky" flavor, but mine did not. Mine was straight up band-aids!

 

[dyqik]

Well, the keg went down the sink last night.

If it is infection, then I'd be pretty sure that it came from the grommet dropping into the beer - everything followed the usual Star San sanitation regime up to that.

Should I hit the fermenter (plus wine thief and auto siphon) with bleach, then rinse multiple times, then Star San for final sanitation before I redo the brew with RO water? I think that's my plan for now.

 

[dmtaylor]

Well, the keg went down the sink last night.

If it is infection, then I'd be pretty sure that it came from the grommet dropping into the beer - everything followed the usual Star San sanitation regime up to that.

Should I hit the fermenter (plus wine thief and auto siphon) with bleach, then rinse multiple times, then Star San for final sanitation before I redo the brew with RO water? I think that's my plan for now.

No. If plastics get contaminated, nothing will kill the contamination. If you think there is any chance of contamination, then all plastic and rubber equipment should be replaced. It's cheap insurance. If you don't think it's a contamination issue, then I would warn against bleach. You can use bleach but if not rinsed carefully and completely 5 or 6 times then it can lead to the same problems again, so be careful with that.

 

[ShineonCrazyDiamond]

No. If plastics get contaminated, nothing will kill the contamination.

Ummm, I don't know about this. In fact, I have to disagree. If you want to replace it, go for it. But to say that plastics can't be cleaned enough to safely be used after an infected batch, that's a little much.

I never use bleach to clean my buckets, except the one time I got a lacto. I did the cleaning regiment the op did and haven't had another issue.

I think your cleaning schedule is on point op.

 

[dmtaylor]

Ummm, I don't know about this. In fact, I have to disagree. If you want to replace it, go for it. But to say that plastics can't be cleaned enough to safely be used after an infected batch, that's a little much.

I never use bleach to clean my buckets, except the one time I got a lacto. I did the cleaning regiment the op did and haven't had another issue.

Contamination has happened to me. NUMEROUS times. Way more than it should have. Wish I'd been given my own advice long before that.

Be careful. A few bucks on a little insurance could save you a lot of heartache later. IF you think you might have had a contamination thing.

Nothing but glass carboys for me now. THAT is how strongly I feel about this. After switching to glass, now I have not had another problem. Before that, it was random chance, dang near 50/50, with the old buckets.

Remember when you were young (ha ha ha ha ha)...

 

[Yesfan]

My water supply has chloramine so I use 1/2 campden tablet per 5 gallons without any problem. However, a year or so ago I had a band aid flavor to all of my beers. I eventually tracked it down to the fact that I was putting a tap bush soaked in starsan into my faucet after every pour. I thought this would keep it clean and sanitary. Instead it gave me that band aid flavor. As soon as I stopped using the brush, the flavor was gone.

I have these on mine as well. I don't put them back in the faucets after every pour though, just when I know I won't be having a beer for a while.

I have noticed a bit of a band-aid taste with some of my bottles beers. I bottle from the tap, so I usually flush the tap with a few squirts of Star-san (as well as the bottles with my Vinator). I still think the taste is more from my brewing process than anything, something else I'm trying to fix, but I'm definitely going to make note of this in case nothing changes.


So what do you use in place of the brushes? I thought about switching to these.

 

[dyqik]

Since I'm not sure at all that this is contamination (I'd put it at 50:50 with excess chloramine, particularly because I do transfer onto StarSan foam, both in the fermenter and keg), I'm going to give a multi-step sanitation process a go before I buy a new fermenter. Particularly because there's a likely source of infection for this batch that isn't the bucket.

Since I have a 2kW hot rod, I'm going to give boiling water for 15 minutes in the fermenter a shot, along with bleach (not going to boil that though).

 

[Jimbodaman]

Many municipal water sources greatly increase the chlorine/chloramine in the springtime. I forgot the exact reason but that be the cause.

 

[dyqik]

Remember when you were young (ha ha ha ha ha)...

Shining like the sun would be an effective decontamination process.

 

[dyqik]

I rebrewed this yesterday, using store bought spring water.

While doing the brew, I noticed something that convinces me that chloramine is to blame, but possibly via a less talked-about source. When pouring tap water yesterday for the the StarSan solution, I noticed a strong smell of chlorine in the bucket, before adding the StarSan. Adding 1/4 Campden tablet to the 2.5 gallons (I had a quarter tablet sitting on top of the container from the last brew), the smell remained, right up until I reached in a crushed the tablet between my fingers, when it almost immediately disappeared. On adding the StarSan, the smell of the solution was very different to the last time I brewed, with much less of a chlorine/swimming pool sanitation smell.

From reading the Campden tablet sticky thread in the Brew Science section, it seems that StarSan plus chloramine is a potent mix for causing off tastes, and that you don't need much chloramine to cause a detectable level - sanitizing rinse residue can conceivably do it.

Also, it seems that the 1/4 Campden tablet per 5 gallon formula is only about a 50% excess of metabisulfite for the usual 2mg/l chloramine level (free chlorine equivalent) needed to disinfect water supplies. So it doesn't take a large increase to exceed what 1/4 Campden tablet can remove.

I guess I have two plans going forward, assuming that this batch come out right - add _crushed_ Campden tablet until the smell of chlorine goes away from the water - at least 1/4 tablet, but there's no harm going to 1/2 tablet or more in 5 gallons, and to do the same for the StarSan solution water as for the brewing water.

 

[Dcpcooks]

I'm not sure you need to treat your star San water with Camden tablets. I'm no expert but the challenge with the water is how it interacts with the fermentation process. I don't see the need to treat your wash, rinse and sani water.

Treat your mash and sparge liquor and brew on!

 

[GHBWNY]

While it is most likely chlorine or chloramine in the water, the other cause that I know for phenolic off-flavors is infection.

I had a "band aid beer" a while back that I tracked bag to a contaminated/infection yeast starter. Certain bacteria strains will produce those phenolic flavors, and they are very similar to the flavor of chlorophenols. Sometimes this also has a hint of a "smoky" flavor, but mine did not. Mine was straight up band-aids!

Agree also with too much NH2Cl, but along the lines of an infection possibility, OP mentioned using up some leftover hops. FWIW, I used an open partial package of hops (which I kept in the freezer) for dry-hopping half a batch of beer. The half I didn't dry-hop was OK, the dry-hopped half got infected.

 

[dmtaylor]

I guess I have two plans going forward, assuming that this batch come out right - add _crushed_ Campden tablet until the smell of chlorine goes away from the water - at least 1/4 tablet, but there's no harm going to 1/2 tablet or more in 5 gallons, and to do the same for the StarSan solution water as for the brewing water.

Do what works for you, and your ingredients and your process. You are correct -- a little extra Campden never hurt anyone and might even help.

 

[dyqik]

Agree also with too much NH2Cl, but along the lines of an infection possibility, OP mentioned using up some leftover hops. FWIW, I used an open partial package of hops (which I kept in the freezer) for dry-hopping half a batch of beer. The half I didn't dry-hop was OK, the dry-hopped half got infected.

The left over hops in this case were some Simcoe added to the 60 min bittering addition in the place of fresh cascade, the dry hops were all fresh cascade in a StarSan soaked hop sock.

 

[Yesfan]

I rebrewed this yesterday, using store bought spring water.

While doing the brew, I noticed something that convinces me that chloramine is to blame, but possibly via a less talked-about source. When pouring tap water yesterday for the the StarSan solution, I noticed a strong smell of chlorine in the bucket, before adding the StarSan. Adding 1/4 Campden tablet to the 2.5 gallons (I had a quarter tablet sitting on top of the container from the last brew), the smell remained, right up until I reached in a crushed the tablet between my fingers, when it almost immediately disappeared. On adding the StarSan, the smell of the solution was very different to the last time I brewed, with much less of a chlorine/swimming pool sanitation smell.

From reading the Campden tablet sticky thread in the Brew Science section, it seems that StarSan plus chloramine is a potent mix for causing off tastes, and that you don't need much chloramine to cause a detectable level - sanitizing rinse residue can conceivably do it.

Also, it seems that the 1/4 Campden tablet per 5 gallon formula is only about a 50% excess of metabisulfite for the usual 2mg/l chloramine level (free chlorine equivalent) needed to disinfect water supplies. So it doesn't take a large increase to exceed what 1/4 Campden tablet can remove.

I guess I have two plans going forward, assuming that this batch come out right - add _crushed_ Campden tablet until the smell of chlorine goes away from the water - at least 1/4 tablet, but there's no harm going to 1/2 tablet or more in 5 gallons, and to do the same for the StarSan solution water as for the brewing water.

Best of luck to you. Thanks for the update. I'm hoping my wheat beer turns out better than my brown ale has.

 

[dyqik]

I did another check in the chloramine level in my water. I put 5 gal of tap water in by brew kettle (for testing my rims tube for leaks, which came back positive. Think I need to send some more money Bobby's way), and added 1/4 of a crushed campden tab. Could still smell chlorine after it had dissolved fully. It took another whole quarter tablet to get rid of the chlorine smell.

 

[dmtaylor]

Thanks for the update. I think I will start doubling my Campden dose as well from now on since it is such cheap and easy insurance with no drawbacks.