First American Pale Wheat Ale Recipe Critique Please!

[Dabba]

So, I was doing some research and messing around with brew calcs to come up with my first recipe for my second or third brew. I'm trying to come up with an American Pale Wheat ale that is a little less bitter than Laquanita's lil sumptin sumptin with more of a wheat/weise character. With advice from people on this forum and doing my own research, this is what I've come up with:

Size: 5G

Fermentables:
8lb - Wheat LME
2lb - American Caramel C10 LME <--- Can't find this in LME/DME. Options?

Steeping: @170F for 30min?
1lb American Pale Ale
1lb American Wheat

Hops:
1.5oz Cascade at 60 mins
0.5oz Centennial @ 15min
Dry hop????

Yeast: 1056
Fermenting at 60-66F

The stats according to the calc:
OG: 1.066
FG: 1.017
ABV: 7.61%
IBU: 44

Does this sound good? I've upped the amount of fermentables to up the ABV a bit and hopped to get the approximate IBUs I wanted. Should I dry hop? If so how?

If there are any changes or errors to fix, what are they and why? I'd like to learn!

 

[MapleGroveAleworks]

I prefer most of my IBU contributions coming from later additions. You're basically doing all of your bittering at 60 min, that Half ounce of centennial won't do much. Depends on how much hop flavor and aroma you want in the final product, but that wouldn't be how I would hop this beer.

 

[z-bob]

Not sure what your steeping grains (pale malt and wheat malt) are for. Those usually need to be mashed. Use C10 or C20 crystal malt instead, and you won't need C10 LME.

Or else crush them and steep at 150 degrees for at least a half an hour (a little mini-mash)

 

[Dabba]

I prefer most of my IBU contributions coming from later additions. You're basically doing all of your bittering at 60 min, that Half ounce of centennial won't do much. Depends on how much hop flavor and aroma you want in the final product, but that wouldn't be how I would hop this beer.

I thought earlier additions were for bittering and later additions more for flavor/aromas? How would you change it? I tried a few combos but the IBU was higher than I'd have liked. What do you suggest to change and why?

How about:
Cascade 0.5 @ 60
Cascade 0.5 @ 30
Centennial 0.5 @ 20
Centennial 1.0 @ 10
+dry hop options??

IBU: 44

Not sure what your steeping grains (pale malt and wheat malt) are for. Those usually need to be mashed. Use C10 or C20 crystal malt instead, and you won't need C10 LME.

Or else crush them and steep at 150 degrees for at least a half an hour (a little mini-mash)

Ah I see, I was hoping steeping them would help a little with flavor. So I can just steep the 2lbs of crystal malt? Would the pale or wheat malt do anything? Ive seen them in other recipes.

 

[chickypad]

2 lbs of crystal malt is a lot, I'd go with 0.5 to 1 lb. As z-bob said the pale and wheat need to be mashed so if you're not doing that then just replace them with more extract. But if you want to "steep" the lb of wheat, lb of pale, and your crystal in about 4-5 qts of water at 150-154 degrees then you are mashing. If you do that use a big bag to line the pot so you can stir the grains well rather than having them packed tight in a bag.

 

[Dabba]

2 lbs of crystal malt is a lot, I'd go with 0.5 to 1 lb. As z-bob said the pale and wheat need to be mashed so if you're not doing that then just replace them with more extract. But if you want to "steep" the lb of wheat, lb of pale, and your crystal in about 4-5 qts of water at 150-154 degrees then you are mashing. If you do that use a big bag to line the pot so you can stir the grains well rather than having them packed tight in a bag.

So, I can take the 2 pounds of C20 and one pound each of the pale and wheat grains and mash them in 4-5 qts for.. how long? 30 mins? After I remove the grain I add water up to the what.. 2.5 or 3 gallon mark and add LME/proceed as normal??

 

[chickypad]

Well as I mentioned I would cut the crystal to about a half pound, but otherwise yes. You can mash them for 45 min or so. Then bring your volume up to your regular boil volume, you can even rinse the grains with a few more quarts.

Regarding the rest of the recipe, are you aiming for an American wheat or more like an IPA with wheat? Not sure what you mean by a weisse character, but if you're thinking banana/clove that is a yeast contribution and you'll need a German yeast. If you want an easy drinking Am wheat I'd drop the gravity down to about 1.050 and the IBU's to about 20-25. If you're aiming more Lil Sumpin Sumpin then keep the gravity and up the late hops. Somehting like bittering at 60 then a bunch of hops at 15 to flameout and dryhop.

 

[Barley_Bob]

Here's the thread I used to learn how to do a partial mash when I was first starting out:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=75231

If you don't want to bother with a mash, then do as others have suggested and just use more extract. But it is a good opportunity to learn new skills, and you can put a pound of crystal malt into your partial mash to meet that goal.

Other than that, I think your recipe looks fine! You can move some hops around to create different profiles, but that's really just about taste and about what you're trying to create. There's nothing wrong with what you have here.

 

[Dabba]

Well as I mentioned I would cut the crystal to about a half pound, but otherwise yes. You can mash them for 45 min or so. Then bring your volume up to your regular boil volume, you can even rinse the grains with a few more quarts.

Regarding the rest of the recipe, are you aiming for an American wheat or more like an IPA with wheat? Not sure what you mean by a weisse character, but if you're thinking banana/clove that is a yeast contribution and you'll need a German yeast. If you want an easy drinking Am wheat I'd drop the gravity down to about 1.050 and the IBU's to about 20-25. If you're aiming more Lil Sumpin Sumpin then keep the gravity and up the late hops. Somehting like bittering at 60 then a bunch of hops at 15 to flameout and dryhop.

I don't know if this makes sense but I'm trying for an American Pale Ale with a wheat character. Or I don't know if you'd call that an American wheat ale thats more bitter? I'm trying to emulate Southern Tier's retired 422 wheat pale ale which was just a pale wheat beer with IBUs somewhere around what sierra nevada is, or their phin and matts. So American Pale Ale level bitterness in an American Wheat? Don't wanna banana flavors, just the citrus which is why I picked the hops I did

Here's the thread I used to learn how to do a partial mash when I was first starting out:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=75231

If you don't want to bother with a mash, then do as others have suggested and just use more extract. But it is a good opportunity to learn new skills, and you can put a pound of crystal malt into your partial mash to meet that goal.

Other than that, I think your recipe looks fine! You can move some hops around to create different profiles, but that's really just about taste and about what you're trying to create. There's nothing wrong with what you have here.

Thanks for the link! I'm gonna try it. I'm not sure what I'll use as a bag because I only have a 5G pot but I'll start thinking and looking. I want to eventually do BIAB. I'm not sure how moving the hops around will affect the beer except more toward the begining of the boil are more bittering and more toward the end are flavor. I think my updated hopping times deliver a more balanced flavor and bittering approach because its spread throughout the boil, with the 1oz at the end for a bit more flavor without adding a lot of bitterness? Is this correct. I'm not looking for something as bitter as Lil sumthin sumthin but I do want it on the level of say an APA like Sierra Nevada.

 

[Barley_Bob]

I don't know if this makes sense but I'm trying for an American Pale Ale with a wheat character. Or I don't know if you'd call that an American wheat ale thats more bitter? I'm trying to emulate Southern Tier's retired 422 wheat pale ale which was just a pale wheat beer with IBUs somewhere around what sierra nevada is, or their phin and matts. So American Pale Ale level bitterness in an American Wheat? Don't wanna banana flavors, just the citrus which is why I picked the hops I did

I haven't tried 422, but you will get wheat character by using this much wheat. American pale wheat is one of my favorite styles, and I've made a bunch with both American and English ale yeasts. I find the malt character complements American hops really well, and I'm sure you won't be disappointed in that regard. My favorites are Gumballhead and Trout Slayer!

Thanks for the link! I'm gonna try it. I'm not sure what I'll use as a bag because I only have a 5G pot but I'll start thinking and looking. I want to eventually do BIAB. I'm not sure how moving the hops around will affect the beer except more toward the beginning of the boil are more bittering and more toward the end are flavor. I think my updated hopping times deliver a more balanced flavor and bittering approach because its spread throughout the boil, with the 1oz at the end for a bit more flavor without adding a lot of bitterness? Is this correct. I'm not looking for something as bitter as Lil sumthin sumthin but I do want it on the level of say an APA like Sierra Nevada.

Definitely go for it! I think I did three batches using this method before I went full BIAB. All you need for a bag is a paint strainer bag. You can pick one up at any hardware store for, like $5.

Your revised hop schedule looks fine! A more "popular" schedule would be:

60, 15, 5, 0, whirlpool.

You'll see a lot of recipes in that approximate format. That doesn't mean there's anything wrong with your schedule at all!

You are correct that early hopping gives you more bittering with less aroma, and late hopping gives you less bittering with more "hop flavor" and aroma. For a pale ale style, you need to take advantage of all of these phases. "Hop bursting," or loading most of your hops into the end of the boil is really popular right now, and I usually aim to get 1/2 to 3/4 of my IBUs from late additions.

If you're planning to dry hop, there's no reason you can't try a whirlpool addition. Even a 0.5oz whirlpool would add extra depth and aroma to your hop profile. But you certainly do not have to!

I love your combination of cascade and centennial. Centennial is an awesome hop! I use it a lot for bittering (60 minute) and flavor (15 or 5 minute) additions, because it does have such a great flavor, but it's so versatile you can use it anywhere. And then cascade is a classic. The two hops should work very well together, and you can dry hop with either. I'm currently planning a Belgian IPA that will be loaded with both.

Good luck! And I definitely want to hear how this one turns out for you!

 

[Dabba]

What's a whirlpool addition?

And if I were to dry hop, what would be a good amount and schedule of what hops? Just don't want to overpower it, but I want flavor!

 

[Barley_Bob]

What's a whirlpool addition?

And if I were to dry hop, what would be a good amount and schedule of what hops? Just don't want to overpower it, but I want flavor!

A whirlpool addition is performed by adding hops to the wort after it has started to cool (usually at ~180F). To the strictest letter, the wort is then stirred or recirculated to keep the hops in suspension and maximize the uptake of hop aromatics and to increase bitterness.

In practice, there are a lot of ways to do this, but basically, the key is to cool it down some, add your hops, and let it steep for at least a good half hour. Any recipe calculator you might be using should have a feature allowing you to calculate IBUs generated through a whirlpool.

The bottom line is that they work, they add aroma, and they add late bitterness. It is a good practice.

Since you're doing a pale ale, I would think a 1-2oz dryhop would be plenty. You could do an ounce each of cascade and centennial, or you could just pick one. Or you could use any other c hop. It doesn't have to be the same one. Or you could just not dryhop. Your call.

 

[Dabba]

A whirlpool addition is performed by adding hops to the wort after it has started to cool (usually at ~180F). To the strictest letter, the wort is then stirred or recirculated to keep the hops in suspension and maximize the uptake of hop aromatics and to increase bitterness.

In practice, there are a lot of ways to do this, but basically, the key is to cool it down some, add your hops, and let it steep for at least a good half hour. Any recipe calculator you might be using should have a feature allowing you to calculate IBUs generated through a whirlpool.

The bottom line is that they work, they add aroma, and they add late bitterness. It is a good practice.

Since you're doing a pale ale, I would think a 1-2oz dryhop would be plenty. You could do an ounce each of cascade and centennial, or you could just pick one. Or you could use any other c hop. It doesn't have to be the same one. Or you could just not dryhop. Your call.

Considering what I'm going for what do you suggest? I don't want to make it to the bitterness of an IPA, more like an APA.
Or overwhelm it with too much hoppy flavor.

 

[Barley_Bob]

Considering what I'm going for what do you suggest? I don't want to make it to the bitterness of an IPA, more like an APA.
Or overwhelm it with too much hoppy flavor.

ipe:

I think you should follow the plan you've got.

It took me, like, 5 minutes to reach that answer, haha. There aren't any wrong choices. But I think you should do what you've planned. It's solid, it will give you a great baseline for future brews, and it's yours.

 

[Dabba]

ipe:

I think you should follow the plan you've got.

It took me, like, 5 minutes to reach that answer, haha. There aren't any wrong choices. But I think you should do what you've planned. It's solid, it will give you a great baseline for future brews, and it's yours.

Thanks for all the help! I'll try to brew it as soon as I rack my current brew to secondary (And buy the additional equipment)

 

[Dabba]

Brewed it tonight at my buddy's. Everything went smooth except OG came in at 1.049 which was bellow the expected in my original post. Not sure why that was. The only thing that didn't go perfectly was I mashed for an hour and 10 mins instead of 50 because I was late getting the water I was going to top off with worth with to proper tempt to mix in after the mash. Looks good though!

 

[Barley_Bob]

Brewed it tonight at my buddy's. Everything went smooth except OG came in at 1.049 which was bellow the expected in my original post. Not sure why that was. The only thing that didn't go perfectly was I mashed for an hour and 10 mins instead of 50 because I was late getting the water I was going to top off with worth with to proper tempt to mix in after the mash. Looks good though!

Nice! Congrats!

I wouldn't worry too much about the OG. Because this is mostly extract, the gravity should be extremely predictable. That fact that it was off makes me suspect it was some other issue, like not mixing and dissolving the extract well enough before taking your reading.

You are definitely going to have beer, and it will be tasty!

 

[Dabba]

Nice! Congrats!

I wouldn't worry too much about the OG. Because this is mostly extract, the gravity should be extremely predictable. That fact that it was off makes me suspect it was some other issue, like not mixing and dissolving the extract well enough before taking your reading.

You are definitely going to have beer, and it will be tasty!

Thanks man. I have an all extract amber up next, and then I'll have to decide on a complete BIAB brew.. as large as I can fit in my 5G kettle. Maybe 3 Gallons? Just not sure what to do next. Something German.

 

[z-bob]

Thanks man. I have an all extract amber up next, and then I'll have to decide on a complete BIAB brew.. as large as I can fit in my 5G kettle. Maybe 3 Gallons? Just not sure what to do next. Something German.

I've done 4 gallon batches in a 22 quart canner. It's kind of tight. Maybe plan on 3.5 gallons and make it extra strong, then top up with water in the fermenter to get your 4 gallons.

I'm just starting to use an 8 gallon kettle. Not sure if I'll move up to 5 gallons, or stick with 4 and have some breathing room.

 

[Dabba]

I've done 4 gallon batches in a 22 quart canner. It's kind of tight. Maybe plan on 3.5 gallons and make it extra strong, then top up with water in the fermenter to get your 4 gallons.

I'm just starting to use an 8 gallon kettle. Not sure if I'll move up to 5 gallons, or stick with 4 and have some breathing room.

The one good thing about doing 4 gallon batches is I can use my 5G carboy, which otherwise will go unused unless I want to make room in a primary or doing a lager. I can just do a small lager with it