filling a 55 gallon barrel with 10 gallons batches

[killian]

I'm looking at filling a 55 barrel brewing 10 gallons a day over the corse of a week. I'm wondering about the yeast pitch rate, I have been thinking that I would brew the initial 10 gallons and pitch at the proper rate and let that ferment to high Krausen and then brew a batch everyday for 6 days to fill the barrel and to have some for top off.

Do you think I should pitch additional yeast at all?

 

[JohnSand]

My guess is no.
There must be some way to calculate it. Maybe a calculator inputting 10 gallon starter?
Anyway, you are a mad scientist. I can't wait to see how this turns out.

 

[Brewsader1]

Typically finished beer goes into the barrel...do you have enough kegs and/or carboys/buckets to brew enough to fill the barrel first?
I can't speak to your fermentation stage question though...my first thought is that it would not be best to have the yeast go back and forth from growth to fermentation stage a bunch of times, but I'm not sure about that.

 

[killian]

Thanks for the replies! I do have enough fermentation space to primary in other containers but I'm looking to get this barrel filled as soon as I can. I wonder what breweries do for their pitch rate, they often size their fermenters at double (or more) than the size of their brew house.

 

[flars]

in the last couple of weeks there was a discussion like this on Pro Brewer. Difference was they were discussing only two worts. The second wort would be added to the fermentor late in the same day or early the next day. If I remember correctly some of the responses were for pitching for the full volume of wort without aerating the second.

 

[Tall_Yotie]

Interesting question. Here is my take (note; I worked as a professional brewer and used barrels and did double-batching occasionally).

Barrels are for after fermentation. All the trub and the yeast decreases surface contact. You will still get activity in the barrel, but it should pretty much be done by the time you're there.

As for yeast, if you were to actually do this; treat your first beer as a huge starter. A proper pitch for 10 Gallons will grow enough yeast for 2-4 batches. And each time you add more wort, you will end up getting more yeast. I would add the new batch at high krausen, and aerate at least the first 3 batches, if not all of them. If you treat the yeast right (add some nutrient with each batch, initial pitch is good, add new batches at high krausen) then you may not have to add any new yeast at all.

For homebrewing, I have taken a single vial of yeast to 1 bbl pitching volume. Vial->Starter->Medium ABV 5G ->high ABV 1 bbl

 

[killian]

I ended up going with a smaller 20 gallon barrel. I pitched the proper amount of yeast for 10 gallons then added the other 10 gallons after high krausen and then brewed another 10 gallons and topped off after the 2nd krausen dropped.

 

[madscientist451]

So what would be the advantage/reason for fermenting in a barrel? If you were going to age the beer in a barrel after fermentation, wouldn't you want to get rid of the dead yeast?

 

[killian]

I’m looking to use this barrel to make my Flanders red using the solara method. Before I make the Flanders I need to strip out the whiskey and char character.

 

[Tall_Yotie]

So what would be the advantage/reason for fermenting in a barrel? If you were going to age the beer in a barrel after fermentation, wouldn't you want to get rid of the dead yeast?

Late reply, but this is my take; if you are doing something like sours, it is a great way to maintain those generations of funk along with oak, as the wood will absorb a lot. If you are just doing stouts or ambers or the like, I would avoid.

 

[madscientist451]

if you are doing something like sours, it is a great way to maintain those generations of funk along with oak, as the wood will absorb a lot. I

Maybe, but commercial breweries with a barrel program for sours have lots of barrels to use and then blend with. Some of the barrels produce off flavors and the beer needs to be dumped.
Its unlikely you'll be able to use more than a barrel or 2 at the homebrew level, so you won't have anything to blend with. In addition, the ratios of any brett or bacteria you use will change over time, so you really won't be able to maintain any specific yeast character, it will constantly change.
If you are a well established brewery selling 750ML bottles for $15-20 out of your taproom, you can afford to dump some beer. At the homebrew level, dumping 50 gallons out of a bad barrel is pretty much going to ruin your afternoon and maybe your whole weekend, unless time and money mean nothing to you.
So, none of this means that it can't be done or you shouldn't try it. On the contrary, I love experiments and have done lots of them myself. I'm just saying if you want to make homebrew sours, primary ferment in a barrel wouldn't be my choice.

 

[Tall_Yotie]

Maybe, but commercial breweries with a barrel program for sours have lots of barrels to use and then blend with. Some of the barrels produce off flavors and the beer needs to be dumped...
So, none of this means that it can't be done or you shouldn't try it. On the contrary, I love experiments and have done lots of them myself. I'm just saying if you want to make homebrew sours, primary ferment in a barrel wouldn't be my choice.

I was a brewer at a brewery that used foeders, which are giant barrels for fermentation. They were used exclusively for sours, and thus given the level of cleaning that you do with something that is meant purely for sours (as in, not that much cleaning). If we did barrel aged beers, sure we blended them, both for flavor as well as to get into the packaging line. But I was seeing a homebrewer using a barrel as an analog to a brewery using a foeder; it is one large vessel for fermentation.

If you are wanting to grow a personal profile for your beers, and plan to regularly use said barrel, I have no issue with someone fermenting in one. With good brewing practices you shouldn't have to dump it all down the drain. But if you want to be safe, sure barrel/oak it once you know your beer isn't weird.

 

[killian]

I have primary fermented in my 9 gallon barrel more than a few times with success, I haven’t dumped anything yet.

 

[madscientist451]

My original question/comment asked a what would be the advantage of primary fermentation in a barrel. I went ahead and looked up what I could find about that, here's a couple of good quotes:

“We chose this method because I really like funky saisons, and any beer I’ve had that I knew was fermented in wood I thought had a cool extra layer of complexity to it,” says Kevin Osborne, co-founder and brewer at L.A.’s Cellador Ales, which is dedicated entirely to barrel-fermented beers. “I think you get a lot more variety between our barrels than if we had started with a primary fermentation [in stainless] and then split it into barrels. If we use the same recipe and same yeasts, every barrel has uniqueness to it and does its own thing. It’s cool for blending, but also more scary in a lot of ways. Everything’s a lot less predictable.”

“With oak fermentation, really what I notice is you’re opening Pandora’s box a bit to some more wild inoculations. Oak barrels are porous and microbes can pass in and out somewhat freely from the oak, in a way you can’t with steel,” Nichols says. “That can be detrimental if you get something you don’t want in there, or it can be beneficial if some microflora from your area adds some terroir to the beer.”

The above is from an article from draftmag.com

http://draftmag.com/barrel-fermented-barrel-aged-whats-the-difference/