Extract vs. BIAB for beginners

[marke14]

Howdy HBT forum members!

I am a new home brewer and I am considering the BIAB approach for future batches. I thought I'd seek the counsel of this board before I purchase more gear.

I brewed, bottled and have almost finished my first batch, which was an American IPA made using an extract kit from Northern Brewers (their deluxe kit that included the two glass carboys). I bought it on Amazon sort of on a whim, as I've been curious about home brewing for a while, along with the other stuff needed (ie. a 5 gallon stockpot and other goodies).

The beer came out pretty good - certainly drinkable although a little spicy tasting and I think, relatively low ABV (accidentally did not obtain a large enough sample to measure FG).

I've done some more reading on homebrewing since then and now I understand that I need to worry about fermentation temperature and other things that will help my next batch turn out better.

I've read a bit on the BIAB method and will be giving this a try, so as to avoid a 3 pot setup. A lot of the recipes I've found are all-grain, so a BIAB would give me that flexibility to try those, though I will have to step up to a much larger brew kettle. However, I wonder if it would be wiser to stick it out with another extract batch or two?

What do you guys think, should I jump straight into all-grain via BIAB, or forget all-grain for a while and instead hone my beginner chops a bit with the relatively simpler extract recipes (using my existing gear) for a few batches?

-Mark in Pasadena, CA

 

[STMF]

Just a small note: BIAB is all-grain.

 

[Andrew Hodgson]

It depends on your enthusiasm and financial/life situation.

I brewed three extract batches in a similar situation as you. I used my normal stovetop with a 5 gal standard kettle, and just had fun with it.

That's all it took for me to fall in love with homebrewing so for me the next logical step was the thought you are having right now. I chose to take the plunge. Dropped roughly 800$ on equipment upgrades so I could do eBIAB in my kitchen and mill my grain myself etc. and haven't looked back. In fact last night I did an extract lambic and I have to be honest the ease of doing an extract again was appealing but it frustrated me to no end in some aspects (not able to use my plate chiller to cool the batch quickly etc.).

I would do a few more extract batches and see if the "bug" bites you. You will know when you are comfortable investing more time and money into the glorious money-pit of drunkenness that is homebrewing, or if it is just a curiosity for a boring Sunday in the winter, which is also fine.

 

[balrog]

I did extracts with steeping grains kits for a good year, adding more interesting grains and trying to "mash" rather than just steep, in my 5G pot to see whether i could do it "right". After doing 2 dozen and feeling good about the process, I went BIAB (@Yooper Haus Pale Ale FTW) and have been doing that ever since. I have no issue with extract brewing, at all. I like being able to mash low or high to make my own sugar water, and different grains. I did have to get a 10G pot, I will say that. But @wilserbrewer bag and 10G pot, use propane and not kitchen stove, really that was the only diff.

I will warn you that it leads to a strange affliction known as "BAD", or Brewer's Acquisitionary Disease, which is really only fatal to your wallet, as you "need" refractometers, finish hydrometers, fermentation chambers, kegs, etc.

 

[mirthfuldragon]

I will warn you that it leads to a strange affliction known as "BAD", or Brewer's Acquisitionary Disease, which is really only fatal to your wallet, as you "need" refractometers, finish hydrometers,

I really want a finish hydrometer . . .

BIAB is awesome. Take notes, especially on your grain temperature and initial water temperture pre-dough in ("strike temperature"), crush your grain fine or double-crush, and the rest is easy street.

 

[auburntsts]

I started off small batch BIAB from the get go--no extract at all. Absolute no regrets whatsoever and if I had to do it all over again I'd do it the same way. Yes, there's more complexity going all-grain, but not so much that a little online research won't overcome.

 

[fendersrule]

Brew in the bag kinda seems easier in concept than extract brewing. It's just more grains, more crushing, and extra 60-90 minutes for mashing, and more heavy handling. But in concept, throwing everything in a bag and letting it mash, removing the bag and letting it drain, then boiling is about as easy as it gets.

IMO, the next logical step isn't to jump right into all-grain from extract brewing. You should consider jumping to partial extract, or partial mash brewing (also called "mini-mash"). You essentially perform the same process in all-grain brewing, but you're not having to deal with 20lbs of grain which regards "larger" things all around. You will practice splarging and mashing which are great stepping stones. You'll also experience what used to take 2-3 hours to complete now takes about 4-5 hours to complete. But the extra hour or two definitely has big time-payoffs!

I've only made ONE "extract"-only batch. It was a 5% at-best Amber ale. I did not use a hydrometer, just guessing at the ABV by taste. It tastes "OK" and is a great "finish" beer or yard-work beer. Since then I've quickly went to mini-mashing, which is essentially using nearly 30-40% of the grains that all-grains uses. I haven't had a chance to taste a finished product yet, but I can guarantee you with 100% confidence from my test vial the taste was way more complex and awesome than extract-only brewing.

I'm nervous about having beer tasters taste my extract beer since I'm not very happy about it, but I would have no problem at all having them drink my mini-mash beer.

 

[Jayjay1976]

I started out from day one brewing AG with a DIY electric BIAB, no regerts.

One thing I would have done differently though would be to brew a few AG kits to get started instead of trying to come up with my own recipes, which has lead to a lot of perfectly mediocre beers. I still haven't tried a kit but I think it's time I do just to take the recipe out of the equation and really evaluate my methods and process.

 

[GoeHaarden]

All the equipment you would use with extract will be needed in BIAB. So you could start with extract and decide when you want to advance to BIAB, and add equipment when you want.

I started doing extract with a pot and bucket to ferment in. Slowly added more equipment...

I will warn you that it leads to a strange affliction known as "BAD", or Brewer's Acquisitionary Disease

This is a real thing!! Lol...

 

[ong]

I did 10 extract batches before switching to BIAB, and I have to say, the first couple all-grain batches were really not very good. I was glad I had some time to work on basic skills, recipe formulation, etc., before I added new challenges. But your experience might be different! Good luck!

 

[marke14]

Just a small note: BIAB is all-grain.

Modified my original post to be more explicit. Understood that BIAB is for all-grain!

 

[marke14]

IMO, the next logical step isn't to jump right into all-grain from extract brewing. You should consider jumping to partial extract, or partial mash brewing (also called "mini-mash"). You essentially perform the same process in all-grain brewing, but you're not having to deal with 20lbs of grain which regards "larger" things all around. You will practice splarging and mashing which are great stepping stones. You'll also experience what used to take 2-3 hours to complete now takes about 4-5 hours to complete. But the extra hour or two definitely has big time-payoffs!

I've only made ONE "extract"-only batch. It was a 5% at-best Amber ale. I did not use a hydrometer, just guessing at the ABV by taste. It tastes "OK" and is a great "finish" beer or yard-work beer. Since then I've quickly went to mini-mashing, which is essentially using nearly 30-40% of the grains that all-grains uses.

Now this sounds like a promising middle path, thanks for the suggestion. I recall my Northern Brewers' American IPA kit had a rather small "specialty grains" component that used a cheesecloth type bag for steeping those grains. I suppose that I could buy a larger one and see how it goes with another extract recipe. This could get me some experience with mashing and sparging as you pointed out, with the potential for a BIAB-like experience in terms of the ease of sparging (depending on the type of mesh grain bag used).

 

[NGD]

@marke14 My $.02 would be to try another extract kit or two and work on the things you messed up the first time. Temp control, water control, proper oxygenation of the wort, collecting OG & FG samples, properly pitching enough yeast, keeping notes etc. These will make noticeable changes to any beer. Work on these first and you’ll make good beer regardless of method.

You can also modify things in extract kits like boil times that I’ve found can dramatically improve the final result. Remember that extract is like reheating leftovers. Your not trying to recook the meal, just make sure its warmed up enough.

Edit: If you haven’t picked up a copy of How To Brew by John Palmer yet, I’d highly recommend it.

 

[Lefou]

Had to chuckle over the "reheated leftover" analogy.
It made me think of TV dinners, but you can do some respectable brewing with extract and partial mash recipes, so never mind. It's all in the process.

 

[dstockwell]

I started off small batch BIAB from the get go--no extract at all. Absolute no regrets whatsoever and if I had to do it all over again I'd do it the same way. Yes, there's more complexity going all-grain, but not so much that a little online research won't overcome.

Same here...

 

[balrog]

FYI, some of us don't sparge w BIAB. The few points efficiency difference only amount to buying a little more 2-row. Then there is the whole BIAB bag squeeze/no-squeeze religious war. I use gravity and let it drip 15m and move on. Again, whatever works for you, your time, your degree of OCD. I know what will happen with SG and water absorption because I've done it many times and KEPT A METRIC CRAP TON OF NOTES. I'm aiming for repeatability of process, which I am hoping leads to repeatability of recipe's outcome.

I highly recommend getting kits with steeping grains. They really step up the flavor. Then you can start playing with keeping the steeping temp from creeping (sorry) by steeping in the kettle, wrapped in reflectix or an old sleeping bag or just set into an oven that was set to "warm" and turned off. At that point, you've proven you can "mash". It's a journey. Keep us posted. We'll be happy to answer questions, kibbitz, make fun of your shoelaces, whatever.

 

[jtratcliff]

I think I started out with a couple Mr. Beer kits (birthday gift) that got me interested, then one 5 gal extract batch from a recipe found online that got me hooked, then straight to BIAB after reading about it here on HBT ... using a $4 IKEA voile curtain and a $20 10 gallon tamale steamer.

I've since moved on to a Wilser bag and a proper kettle, but it's possible try BIAB on the cheap to see if you like it.

Everything after the mash is the same as extract brewing, so you just need to see if you like dealing with mashing and having lots of grains left over.

 

[marke14]

... then straight to BIAB after reading about it here on HBT ... using a $4 IKEA voile curtain and a $20 10 gallon tamale steamer.

Any concerns in terms of what the curtain is made of leaching into the wort? Just curious ... I love DIY / repurposing stuff for uses like this!

 

[balrog]

I've used big box paint strainer bags but quickly went to @wilserbrewer bag.
I've no concerns other than I never have flame on under kettle with bag in, but that's me.

 

[jtratcliff]

Any concerns in terms of what the curtain is made of leaching into the wort? Just curious ... I love DIY / repurposing stuff for uses like this!

100% polyester... same as BIAB bags you can buy... I did buy them new and washed before use, however.... 2 large panels for $5.

I used the curtains for quite a while before switching to a Wilser bag... The bag is worth it.... Much finer weave than the curtain, and much less hassle. Dealing with the extra material from the curtain was a pain. I folded it over on itself until it fit the kettle but there was still lot's of excess to worry about.

 

[jtratcliff]

I've used big box paint strainer bags but quickly went to @wilserbrewer bag.
I've no concerns other than I never have flame on under kettle with bag in, but that's me.

I still direct fire my kettle with the bag in it. I just make sure to keep stirring while the flame is on. No scorching yet *fingers crossed*

Although, I do stove top, so my max heat input is less than that of a propane burner...

 

[wepeeler]

I started with extract. I did about 10 batches over the course of a year before switching to BIAB. Although I'm grateful for the experience I gained from the 10 batches, the BIAB method produces far superior beer, with infinite ability to tweak and fine tune a recipe. In hindsight, I would have only done about 3-4 extract batches before switching. Extract brewing was perfect to get the brewing process down, but BIAB is so much more rewarding.

 

[BSheridan]

I just did my first 2 extract kits with steeping grains. Already looking into equipment needed for BIAB, but I don't want to jump the gun just yet. Will probably do a couple more extract kits just to make sure that I have my sanitation and bottling processes dialed in first

 

[RM-MN]

I've read a bit on the BIAB method and will be giving this a try, so as to avoid a 3 pot setup. A lot of the recipes I've found are all-grain, so a BIAB would give me that flexibility to try those, though I will have to step up to a much larger brew kettle.

It really stretched my brewing budget to start all grain via BIAB. That $3.78 for the pair of paint strainer bags nearly put me over the edge. With that I was able to do a 2 1/2 gallon batch right on the kitchen stove. (I did also purchase a Corona style grain mill since my LHBS that has a mill is 90 miles away). That first batch was a winner (way higher OG than expected) and I was hooked. I then bought a bigger kettle and burner so I could do larger batches but quickly found that the small batches suited me better and got me a wider variety of beer styles to drink. I now regularly brew 2 1/2 gallon batches and have learned techniques to speed up the process so I can do 2 of them in the time it takes many people to to one 5 gallon batch.

 

[wepeeler]

I just did my first 2 extract kits with steeping grains. Already looking into equipment needed for BIAB, but I don't want to jump the gun just yet. Will probably do a couple more extract kits just to make sure that I have my sanitation and bottling processes dialed in first

Jump the gun. Best decision I ever made.

 

[kh54s10]

I vote all three.

Extract is a little more forgiving than all grain, but give you less control over what goes into you beer.

BIAB and all grain requires more attention and more steps in the process, but is not really difficult. And it is cheaper than extract.

I don't like doing BIAB. Mostly because I am not set up for it. BIAB became more popular shortly after I started with my 3 vessel gravity system.

Without things like a hoist, I end up with a heavy, hot, sticky, messy bag of grain that I have to handle - not my idea of fun. Many say that cleaning BIAB is a lot easier. With my setup it is not.

So, in reality it is up to the individual to research the differences, evaluate his confidence, and make his own decision on whether it is time to try a different method of brewing.

 

[Todd_Sails]

BIAB? + Brew/Beer in A bAG? I have to read up on this.
NIce thread.

I've only done what I think you call 'Partial Mash'
Recipes I started in HOUston- From 'DeFalco's' LHBS.
Now I'm in 'The Brew City'- Milwaukee- since I moved here they opened up a nice 'NOrthern Brewer' Store.
I was there yesterday getting ingredients for a new Partial Mash version of Bells 2 Hearted Ale.- Brewed last night, fermenting this morning.

I use the reusable large steeping bag for my grains alrieady- It's huge, My 1-2 # of grains depending on my partial mash barely use any of the bag I have now.

So I could just use grains only lots of it per recipe, and not use any extract, liquid or Dry, NOT keep running it thru, and get pretty good results? ONe of the advantages I see is cost.

If I used only grains in a bag, and cultured my own yeast. This would but the cost a lot over the extract, and liquid yeast.
Hey, while I'm at it, I could make my own pot out of some old metal thingy, and use wood from my yard for the fire, etc. ;-)

Or not

I've been very happy with my own recipes I get off the net, for cloned beers, (sometimes make up my own) for 20 years using the partial mash method. ( I always steep some grains )
- Change my mind-

 

[RM-MN]

BIAB? + Brew/Beer in A bAG? I have to read up on this.
NIce thread.

I've only done what I think you call 'Partial Mash'
Recipes I started in HOUston- From 'DeFalco's' LHBS.
Now I'm in 'The Brew City'- Milwaukee- since I moved here they opened up a nice 'NOrthern Brewer' Store.
I was there yesterday getting ingredients for a new Partial Mash version of Bells 2 Hearted Ale.- Brewed last night, fermenting this morning.

I use the reusable large steeping bag for my grains alrieady- It's huge, My 1-2 # of grains depending on my partial mash barely use any of the bag I have now.

So I could just use grains only lots of it per recipe, and not use any extract, liquid or Dry, NOT keep running it thru, and get pretty good results? ONe of the advantages I see is cost.

If I used only grains in a bag, and cultured my own yeast. This would but the cost a lot over the extract, and liquid yeast.
Hey, while I'm at it, I could make my own pot out of some old metal thingy, and use wood from my yard for the fire, etc. ;-)

Or not

I've been very happy with my own recipes I get off the net, for cloned beers, (sometimes make up my own) for 20 years using the partial mash method. ( I always steep some grains )
- Change my mind-

Um...skip the making your own pot and the wood fire.The rest of it is a good idea. If you can accurately heat a measured amount of water to the proper strike temperature, measure the temperature of the grains and weigh the amount, and have a way to separate the grains from the water when the mash period is over you can brew all grain. The bag we brew in is the filter. That's all its purpose is. Everything else can be the same as any other all grain brew. We can use the entire amount of water for the mash if our kettle is big enough to do so, we can sparge if it isn't quite.

When you brew as batch of beer, the first thing that happens when you add the yeast (unless you add a huge amount) is that they propagate to create more yeast so there are enough yeast cells to do the job. At the end of the fermentation there is yeast settled out in the bottom of the fermenter...about enough for 4 new batches. You can save this in jars in the refrigerator for weeks or even months before using it to brew the next batch.

 

[marke14]

...

At the end of the fermentation there is yeast settled out in the bottom of the fermenter...about enough for 4 new batches. You can save this in jars in the refrigerator for weeks or even months before using it to brew the next batch.

I have been trying to understand how this works exactly. I have two glass carboys that came as part of my kit, a 6 gallon and a 5. Per advice from forum members I left my first batch in the first carboy for the entire duration, never using the smaller of the two.

If I wanted to harvest yeast while using the glass carboys as opposed to a fancier conical fermenter with a convenient valve at the bottom, how would I go about doing that?

Then, assuming I can harvest it, how does one store and then use it? How much would go into a new batch? Do you just dump it in like you would pitch the yeast normally?

 

[jtratcliff]

I have been trying to understand how this works exactly. I have two glass carboys that came as part of my kit, a 6 gallon and a 5. Per advice from forum members I left my first batch in the first carboy for the entire duration, never using the smaller of the two.

If I wanted to harvest yeast while using the glass carboys as opposed to a fancier conical fermenter with a convenient valve at the bottom, how would I go about doing that?

Then, assuming I can harvest it, how does one store and then use it? How much would go into a new batch? Do you just dump it in like you would pitch the yeast normally?

To harvest out of a carboy, just swirl around whatever is left after you siphon the beer out (adding extra water if necessary to get it flowing) then just pour into sanitized containers.... I use 1pint mason jars.

You can go to the extra effort of rinsing the yeast to remove excess trub, but it's not really necessary.

Keep the jars in the fridge. You can direct pitch if you use within a week or two... The longer they sit there more likely you are to need to refresh them with a starter...

 

[balrog]

See this post on this site for instance. There are many posts and youtube videos on yeast harvesting/rinsing/washing/slanting/starting/throwthemoveryourshoulderlikeacontinentalsoldier.

 

[4of7]

Howdy HBT forum members!

I am a new home brewer and I am considering the BIAB approach for future batches. I thought I'd seek the counsel of this board before I purchase more gear.

I brewed, bottled and have almost finished my first batch, which was an American IPA made using an extract kit from Northern Brewers (their deluxe kit that included the two glass carboys). I bought it on Amazon sort of on a whim, as I've been curious about home brewing for a while, along with the other stuff needed (ie. a 5 gallon stockpot and other goodies).

The beer came out pretty good - certainly drinkable although a little spicy tasting and I think, relatively low ABV (accidentally did not obtain a large enough sample to measure FG).

I've done some more reading on homebrewing since then and now I understand that I need to worry about fermentation temperature and other things that will help my next batch turn out better.

I've read a bit on the BIAB method and will be giving this a try, so as to avoid a 3 pot setup. A lot of the recipes I've found are all-grain, so a BIAB would give me that flexibility to try those, though I will have to step up to a much larger brew kettle. However, I wonder if it would be wiser to stick it out with another extract batch or two?

What do you guys think, should I jump straight into all-grain via BIAB, or forget all-grain for a while and instead hone my beginner chops a bit with the relatively simpler extract recipes (using my existing gear) for a few batches?

-Mark in Pasadena, CA

 

[4of7]

Do what is right for you...it cost alot more to do extract ,take notes...extract will take the least amount of time, for me its around 3 hours, as I would brew new and bottle fremented batch,,my first years were done this way about every two to three weeks.....as the quote goes from charlie p "relax and have a homebrew"

 

[Saunassa]

I have done three extract brews now. Worked great as I learned what I needed to brew and ferment without having to worry about the recipes. On advice of folks on here i purchased a refractometer for $15 a Wilser brewer bags and a number of small items. Next step is partial mash, I love to cook so this is fun. The only problem is drinking the beer fast enough to make more.

 

[shetc]

I highly recommend the good folks at https://www.biabrewer.info/index.php

 

[Wansombeer?]

My first post! Anyway, I did extract brewing back in the early 90's and then stopped as kids arrived and my dislike for bottling grew. I recently started up again by doing a small two gallon extract batch and kegging it in a 3 gallon setup that I put together. It turned out okay, but it got me back into the basics of brewing. After reading a ton and watching many YT videos on BIAB, I jumped into that by getting a 6 gallon pot, paint strainer bag, refractometer, and an immersion wort chiller with the idea of doing 2.5 to 3 gallon batches. I picked up an irish red kit from Northern Brewer since I live near them and that in itself was hugely satisfying. When you go there, they print the recipe and walk you through the grain selection, milling, and yeast selection. I enjoyed that a lot.
The next day I brewed. Mashing was easy and my initial concerns about the ability of my glass cooktop heating to a rolling boil were unfounded(I had tested it with 4 gallons of water and it wouldn't, but wort is a different animal). Now it's in the fermenter bubbling away. I found BIAB to be pretty straightforward and very satisfying because you go through the process of mashing and creating that sweet wort yourself. Now I have to wait to see how it turns out!

 

[wepeeler]

My first post! Anyway, I did extract brewing back in the early 90's and then stopped as kids arrived and my dislike for bottling grew. I recently started up again by doing a small two gallon extract batch and kegging it in a 3 gallon setup that I put together. It turned out okay, but it got me back into the basics of brewing. After reading a ton and watching many YT videos on BIAB, I jumped into that by getting a 6 gallon pot, paint strainer bag, refractometer, and an immersion wort chiller with the idea of doing 2.5 to 3 gallon batches. I picked up an irish red kit from Northern Brewer since I live near them and that in itself was hugely satisfying. When you go there, they print the recipe and walk you through the grain selection, milling, and yeast selection. I enjoyed that a lot.
The next day I brewed. Mashing was easy and my initial concerns about the ability of my glass cooktop heating to a rolling boil were unfounded(I had tested it with 4 gallons of water and it wouldn't, but wort is a different animal). Now it's in the fermenter bubbling away. I found BIAB to be pretty straightforward and very satisfying because you go through the process of mashing and creating that sweet wort yourself. Now I have to wait to see how it turns out!

Next step is a propane burner! Glad to see you got back into brewing. BIAB is so simple, and you're going to love the end product.

 

[agrazela]

The difference between "prison hooch" and drinkable beer is:

1. Sanitation
2. Fermentation temperature control

Get those under control, and the rest is just details.

You mentioned sanitation yourself, so you are clearly aware of that.

So to (kind of) answer your original question: the next thing you should invest in is fermentation temperature control; e.g., a mini-fridge / wine fridge / small chest freezer that your fermentation vessel fits in, and a controller setup for that. Unless the only thing you make are Farmhouse styles (or you own a cave), you'll never consistently make good beer without ferm temp control.

(Maybe then invest $10 in a mesh bag and try out some partial-mash BIAB using the very same pot you have now, as I believe has been mentioned)