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This and BIAB have provided all of the solutions I was looking for after learning traditional brewing and then moving to tiny apartments in LA. It makes sense that all of these threads started after I had given up on anything but ciders. I would like to thank the Australian Rules Brewing Community and HBT. Due to their hard work and the HBT community work / threads about the No Chill and BIAB teks I will be back to brewing more than cider in a months time.
 
EDIT sorry, trying to delete this and move to another thread on no chill hops, but it won't let me.

I'm curious about pitching hops at around 135F on a no chill (or other flame out temps...).

Basically I pitched 0.25 oz of 8.4% newport at 135F and then it took a good 24 hours to chill down to pitching temp.

In this beer I only did ~29 IBUs worth of bittering (0.75 newport @ 8.4% for 47 minutes in a 3.5 gallon boil in this case) hops and this "late" addition. Is there some way to calculate what this will do for IBUs, flavor and aroma?

On uncarbonated tasting, I was surprised at how bitter it seemed. I'd say in the 40+ range. Came out surprisingly well so far.
 
Although not precisely an answer to pjcampbell...I wanted to share an experience that I hope will be of interest...

I had made an 11 gallon batch of IPA...adjusted hop additions according to the table in this thread and just prior to draining the boil kettle into 2 7.9 gallon bucket for no-chill, I decided the try something. My brother had happened across a large amount of wild hops that I'd previously used to successfully dry hop a growler of IPA...and he had given me several ounces so, on a whim I threw 2 ounces into one bucket. "racked" the cooled wort off the wild hops 2 days later but did not rack the other bucket. Then pitched both with 1/2 of a huge starter I'd made. Other than that the two buckets were treated 100% the same.

The "hot hopped in no-chill vessel" batch is FAR superior. There is a beautiful mellow and distinct hop flavor to the brew the other lacks. Sadly it's almost gone (I bottle, therefore I horde). I had read about vessel hopping with no-chill but wanted to share this reasonably scientific experiment result.

I have since abandoned no-chill because I felt like it created another "day" of brewing work (not a whole day obviously) with oxygenating, pitching, cleaning up, etc. But I may revisit it if I can't replicate that wonderful mellow hoppy-ness...I am now experimenting with pausing the chill-down at 185* for 10 minutes to hop then restarting the immersion chiller...off topic for this thread...sorry.
 
4 month old thread but quick question.. I brew 3-4 gal batches and wanted to try no chilling. Has anyone used the 4 gallon Aqua-tainer for this? I'm assuming it would function the same as it's 7 gal larger sibling. Definitely would love to pack up my chilling equipment if this works well for me!
 
fwiw I chill my wort in the brew kettle outside overnight with the lid on . It cools down much quicker outside (even in summer temps, I think the wind helps to cool it) It's not air airtight but I have never had a problem.

I've considered trying a corny, but have never done it.
 
carlk47 said:
4 month old thread but quick question.. I brew 3-4 gal batches and wanted to try no chilling. Has anyone used the 4 gallon Aqua-tainer for this? I'm assuming it would function the same as it's 7 gal larger sibling. Definitely would love to pack up my chilling equipment if this works well for me!
Click to expand...
. Yes, my fil loves his, he's only done one 5 gal batch in the 7 gal aquatainer. He is retired , so no rush in the morning and he can his rehydrating his yeast and not be rushed.
 
Just get a lid for your brew kettle, I use a Keggle with the lid and no chill all the time. Just did a stout last night, end of the boil put the lid on, wake up in the morning, rack it over. Cuts out the chilling wait time, but does split the work into two days
 
It really is very simple.

Don't uncover the kettle once you place the lid on and nothing will grow. Cover with a towel soaked in star san and place in fridge or outside if cold enough.

If you want to feel better, take wort stability samples (as i always do) 1. Before transfer to fermenter. 2. Post transfer, pre O2 3. Post O2, pre pitch.

My WS samples routinely go a month still smelling sweet.

Why do no chill? Don't see the benefit? Then it's not for you but it gives me the flexibility I need, so I do. And it's just simpler.
 
This is my first post ever- apologies for any blunders.
On the issue of cooling wort drawing air laden nasties into non airtight containers. If the container holding the hot wort was fitted with one of those 2 piece airlocks filled with Iodophor or similar sterilizing solution, any air drawn into the container during wort cooling would have to pass through the sterilizing solution. Would this keep the wort safe from invasion?
 
Okay
I'm lost why are you not chilling?
I have a wort chiller and can drop my temps as fast or as slow as I wish and even bump my rest temps for dry hoping.
But I really don't understand why you would want to drag out the brew day.
Does it have any advantages???
 
MadIslander said:
Okay
I'm lost why are you not chilling?
I have a wort chiller and can drop my temps as fast or as slow as I wish and even bump my rest temps for dry hoping.
But I really don't understand why you would want to drag out the brew day.
Does it have any advantages???
Click to expand...

Sure it has advantages. Less water useage is one. The second is time. Some of us don't have a wort chiller and don't want to buy one nor wait for our wort to chill as we have other commitments. Take the wort off the stove, put a lid on it and pour it into the fermenter in the morning beats running water and waking the kids.
 
RM-MN said:
Sure it has advantages. Less water useage is one. The second is time. Some of us don't have a wort chiller and don't want to buy one nor wait for our wort to chill as we have other commitments. Take the wort off the stove, put a lid on it and pour it into the fermenter in the morning beats running water and waking the kids.
Click to expand...

Now I'm with you on not waking the kids...
I guess I have always had the impression that after the boil you should "crash" to temp or drop it quickly so that was my first investment
Thanks for the feedback.
makes it one less thing to worry so much about unless I'm doing a lager
 
Taitoko said:
This is my first post ever- apologies for any blunders.
On the issue of cooling wort drawing air laden nasties into non airtight containers. If the container holding the hot wort was fitted with one of those 2 piece airlocks filled with Iodophor or similar sterilizing solution, any air drawn into the container during wort cooling would have to pass through the sterilizing solution. Would this keep the wort safe from invasion?
Click to expand...

I'm doing something similar, except that I don't like the possibility of something sucking back into the fermenter as the wort cools and shrinks. I put some polyester fiberfill into a jar and saturated it with StarSan. Tipped it over to drain out most of the StarSan, set it upright and then put my blow off tube down through the fiberfill. When I went to pitch the yeast I simply switched jars to one half filled with StarSan. I figured that anything that got down through 5-6" of damp fiberfill and then up 3' of hose would probably be able to contaminate my wort through the side of the container as well:D. This allowed my wort to cool without distorting the fermenter.
 
Thanks for that Chucko-great idea. I will give it a go. The good thing about being able to transfer hot wort into the fermentor from the kettle (no ball valve) is that my fermentor has a much bigger mouth than a cube so pour and prey is a less risky business.
 
Taitoko said:
This is my first post ever- apologies for any blunders.
On the issue of cooling wort drawing air laden nasties into non airtight containers. If the container holding the hot wort was fitted with one of those 2 piece airlocks filled with Iodophor or similar sterilizing solution, any air drawn into the container during wort cooling would have to pass through the sterilizing solution. Would this keep the wort safe from invasion?
Click to expand...

Well, if you used one kind of airlock you would suck in some of the sanitizer. The other kind will draw the air through it, but you probably won't sanitize all of the air.

What I've done in the past is to attach a one-way bacteria filter (found at plenty of online supply stores, so that when air is drawn in, it is filtered down to a degree that bacteria cannot pass through.

Usually, though, I just put a cover on the kettle and put it outside in the cold.
 
MadIslander said:
Now I'm with you on not waking the kids...
I guess I have always had the impression that after the boil you should "crash" to temp or drop it quickly so that was my first investment
Thanks for the feedback.
makes it one less thing to worry so much about unless I'm doing a lager
Click to expand...

It saves time by moving a small portion of it to a future time. And it started gaining favor from people in dry warm places where water is precious, and so warm that it would take a long time to chill.

There are some scientific reasons it's not as good as chilling quickly, but they are debatable and some people don't mind the downsides anyway. I have pretty cold water most days of the year, but sometimes I do no-chill just to save time and hassle. Especially if I'm brewing a witbier or something that doesn't look bad with a little chill haze.
 
ChuckO said:
I'm doing something similar, except that I don't like the possibility of something sucking back into the fermenter as the wort cools and shrinks. I put some polyester fiberfill into a jar and saturated it with StarSan. Tipped it over to drain out most of the StarSan, set it upright and then put my blow off tube down through the fiberfill. When I went to pitch the yeast I simply switched jars to one half filled with StarSan. I figured that anything that got down through 5-6" of damp fiberfill and then up 3' of hose would probably be able to contaminate my wort through the side of the container as well:D. This allowed my wort to cool without distorting the fermenter.
Click to expand...

If you use one of the "S" airlocks they won't suck back any of the liquid in them.:)
 
I no-chilled because I didn't have an outdoor water source at my old place. Other than having to adjust my hop addition times, the beers came out just as good as chilled versions, and just as clear.
 
eulipion2 said:
I no-chilled because I didn't have an outdoor water source at my old place. Other than having to adjust my hop addition times, the beers came out just as good as chilled versions, and just as clear.
Click to expand...

+1!

The 2 that I have done so far have been great and I have 2 more currently fermenting! I choose no-chill just for the simplicity on brew day and the ability to brew whenever I wanted and to time my fermentations separately.
 
I no-chilled about a dozen batches until I had an infection. Right away I blamed it on no-chill & bought an immersion chiller. It turned out it wasn't no-chill but a bad Better Bottle that was the source of my infection(s). I also liked the simplicity of no-chill; but I have a shiny new stainless steel chiller that must be used.
 
I ferment in a Sanke. On my last two batches I've only used 90 minute bittering hops in my boil. I add aroma hops directly to the Sanke when the temp gets to about 175 which is pretty much right away from heating up the keg. After that I proceed with pitching my yeast when it's cool enough the results have been great. Simple. I love it.
 
After No Chilling the majority of my beers, I had a bad year in 2013 and brewed virtually nothing but duds. Weird off flavors in most batches, beers that took 2 months longer than normal to come together, etc. I'm just now trying to get back into the swing of brewing actually.

I think I'll switch back to immersion chilling for the short term, along with a few other changes, to see if the beers improve. I'm thinking repeated use of the same chilling tank for many batches led it to be compromised in some way, or perhaps some superheat resistant mold was living the tiny pores of the plastic. Getting back to a "normal" hop schedule will be nice too, I could never quite nail down cube-hopping. It changed the hop flavor in weird ways, imho.

Having said that, let me state strongly that I produced MANY good beers with the No Chill technique, including 3-4 lagers that I felt were outstanding given my inexperience level. Lagers usually can be considered an "advanced" brewing technique, but the combo of NoChill - BIAB - dry 34/70 (2 packs) is a killer combo that even novice brewers can use to churn out decent-to-great lagers.
 
Recently brewed 2 batches with no chill, an Old Ale, and 10 gallons batch of Rye Pale Ale.

In both cases I left the wort outside in the cold overnight to cool down (relatively) quickly.

I noticed that both batches were very murky. With everything else the same, I can only conclude that it was the no chill that was the problem. I'm going to use my CFC on the next batch and see what happens. Water adjustments, whirlfloc, fermentation temps all the same. Same US-05 in 5 gallons of the Rye, plus the S-04 is just as cloudy as the US-05. Even Gelatin didn't help much.
 
In my 15 years of home brewing I have yet to use a chiller of any sort. I also have yet to brew anything larger than a five gallon batch, so depending on batch size I either just let it cool on the stove or use the sink method....even though I quickly run out of ice. When that happens, I just fill the sink, drain when hot, then fill again and repeat. It is not a quick method but I do not recall ever tasting anything that resembled burnt corn, or corn in general, and only had a problem with chill haze once; and that was from an attempt at a high gravity extract brew brewed at 3 gallons than topped off to five in the fermenter.

I also have always brewed indoors, where airborne microbes certainly are present but more-than-likely in vastly reduced concentrations than found outdoors or in a garage.
 
So for IPAs and other late hopped beers, why not use the cube in a different way? Boil regular old water, put it into the cube and allow the vacuum to develop. Put it in the freezer on brew day, brew up the recipe as normal and use the semi-frozen sanitized water to cool the wort. You wouldn't need a full 5 gallon cube for water either, a 1.5-2.5 gal cube would work very well.

There are a few things that kill some advantages of No-chill, but it doesn't remove all the advantages. The main thing is you would have to have space in your fermenter in the next 24 hours (yes, I've let mine sit overnight to get to proper pitching temps after doing a less sanitized variation on this method.) and in your freezer. You also have to account for the top-up water in the recipe.

The advantages are being able to retain an "original" recipe, without the difficultly in cleaning a CFC or plate chiller. You also save time, because, at least in my experience with Texas ground water, the frozen couple of gallons achieves near-pitching temperatures very quickly. This method also favors water restricted areas, because the overall amount of water used should be nearly the same as a no-chill method.
 
I supposed another take on this is getting a fee bags of ice and dumping them into your sanitized no chill vessel, if you feel your ice cubes are safe enough to use without sanitizing. Costs a few $$ more, but i probably can't fit my 5gal no chill cube in my freezer.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew
 
I thought about that, but the ice produced en-masse isn't nearly clean enough. Amid bacteria carrying dust, machine oils, dirt and other nasty grime, it makes me uneasy. Don't get me wrong, I've done it before after seeing it on Good Eats (wanted to see how well it worked and if it introduced baddies) but I don't recommend it. Beer stability and even the initial taste wasn't great.

The other issue with the ice is you don't know the water profile, so it may compete with our beer or add something...unpleasant to it like chloramines.
 
dantheman13 said:
It might be worth noting this recent article by Chris Colby, who I believe has a PhD in Biology and was peer reviewed by Chris White from White Labs as well as a food scientist, says that aging no chilled wort longer than 3-4 days runs a very low risk of botulism poisoning.
Click to expand...


That's a very interesting read. Thanks for the link!


Sent from my iPad using Home Brew
 
eulipion2 said:
I did a quad yesterday, and put the syrup into the cube, then racked the wort on top of it. I've done that with other syrups/sugars and they've always turned out great.
Click to expand...

That is what I was thinking. I use a corny as my "cube" but the concept is the same. Thanks for the quick response!!:mug:
 
dantheman13 said:
It might be worth noting this recent article by Chris Colby, who I believe has a PhD in Biology and was peer reviewed by Chris White from White Labs as well as a food scientist, says that aging no chilled wort longer than 3-4 days runs a very low risk of botulism poisoning.
Click to expand...

What this basically means is that ANY liquid OR food product is susceptible to botulism. ANY. period. My point is chilling quickly or not will not reduce the amount of botulism that you might have "inoculated" your containers with. Good article none-the-less.
 
stamandster said:
What this basically means is that ANY liquid OR food product is susceptible to botulism. ANY. period. My point is chilling quickly or not will not reduce the amount of botulism that you might have "inoculated" your containers with. Good article none-the-less.
Click to expand...

That's why most other liquids or food stores that are produced are pasteurized for botulism. There are companies that produce stored wort who pasteurize for botulism, for example.

However, beer is a little bit different than "every other food product". In order to get botulism in beer that begins fermentation within 3-4 days, you need to have botulism poison (spores and bacteria will not survive the pH swing once fermentation begins, so if they are in there you are still not going to get botulism poisoning in this case) in the fermenter when you rack your beer in, which means you need a rather disgusting fermenter. With decent cleaning and sanitizing there is as close to a 0% chance as you can get of botulism poisoning if you pitch your yeast within 3-4 days. Since spores survive boiling temperatures (but not low pH), the chance is considerably higher (although still lower than the chances of getting it from an irresponsible sushi restaurant).

I would suggest to go ahead and age wort if that is what you want to do. Just drink it before giving it to someone else. Selling unpasteurized aged wort or giving beer to friends that was fermented with unpasteurized aged wort without tasting first yourself is irresponsible considering the knowledge we have on the subject.
 
Does anybody know the best time to add Irish Moss to a no-chill brew? Up to this point I've never used it in my no-chill method, and I'm not sure if it needs to be boiled or if so, for how long. Or, if it should just go into the cube while the wort is still at boiling temperature.
 

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