Exploring "no chill" brewing

[The Pol]

When creating a real wort starter for a beer in the range of 1.055 or less are most people building up the starter before addng to the rws or does just the vial/ smack pack added to the rws create enough cells in 24 hours to adequately ferment the wort?

Boy, that is a loaded question.

Are you using a stir plate?

Or are you making a simple starter?

Is it for a lager?

It is for an ale?

What is the desired pitch rate?

What is the size of the RWS?

I have had stir plate starters go from 1.055 to 1.008 in 16 hours!

If you are making a simple starter, you will probably be pitching during high krausen, which is also good.

 

[bakins]

When creating a real wort starter for a beer in the range of 1.055 or less are most people building up the starter before addng to the rws or does just the vial/ smack pack added to the rws create enough cells in 24 hours to adequately ferment the wort?

FWIW, on *all* my no-chill beers I've collected 2 quarts of wort and just pitched into that (when cooled). I generally pitch the whole RWS into the main wort within 48 hours - but I've gone 1 week before. I've done this with everything from 1.040 beers to 1.091 ones. I've never had any issues and beer has been good. I guess I'm technically under or over pitching sometimes, but it's been fine.

 

[Limited Visibility]

Just ordered my 6 gallon winpak... can't wait to start brewing no chill! First batch will be under way as soon as I get it.

How long did it take for everyone to get their equipment from US plastics with the ground shipping?

 

[chucke]

How long did it take for everyone to get their equipment from US plastics with the ground shipping?

Usually 2 business days from order to ship- then UPS does the rest.

 

[swillmaker]

Howdy,
Why don`t ya just mash a high gravity wort, dump that into the fermentor, top up with chilled destilled water and pitch a very healthy, large yeast starter right after it reaches proper temp???
This will ensure almost immediate fermentation, instead of doddling around with other methods.
That`ld be my brewing-on-the-run method
Just my 2 bits worth
C YA
swillmaker

 

[chucke]

Why don`t ya just...

Different strokes-

You like your method; more power to you.

I love the flexibility that no-chill adds to brewing.

 

[jeffmeh]

I did my first no-chill yesterday, a California Common from a Midwest extract kit, and all went well with the brewing. As another first for me, I am using a stir plate for my starter. The smack pack did not expand within the first three hours, but I threw it into the starter anyway. I have yet to see any krausen in the starter, after around 17 hours. How long should I give it before giving up on it?

 

[The Pol]

I did my first no-chill yesterday, a California Common from a Midwest extract kit, and all went well with the brewing. As another first for me, I am using a stir plate for my starter. The smack pack did not expand within the first three hours, but I threw it into the starter anyway. I have yet to see any krausen in the starter, after around 17 hours. How long should I give it before giving up on it?

You may not see a krausen at all in starter, especially on a stir plate. The only way you can tell, is to take a gravity reading.

 

[jeffmeh]

You may not see a krausen at all in starter, especially on a stir plate. The only way you can tell, is to take a gravity reading.

Thanks Pol. I was afraid of that, given that my hydrometer hit the concrete floor when I checked the gravity of my last batch. I think I will turn off the stir plate tomorrow morning, and see whether a reasonable amount of yeast has settled out tomorrow evening.

 

[Synovia]

Did a no-chill this weekend. I LOVE it. LOVE.

Dealing with my pumpless counterflow chiller is a PITA. Not having to clean it, and drag out all the hoses is great.

Made Orfy's Mild Mannered Ale. We'll see how it comes out. Got a aquatainer full of wort in the kitchen. Was still warm to the touch when I went to bed.

 

[whyter]

By page 30 I ordered 3 containers.. By page 65, I wish I had ordered a 6 pack.

I've been AG brewing for about 6 years, and although I have all the equipment I tried a Brew In a Bag yesterday (for the heck of it) .. I have 3 beers, 15gal fermenting now - next weekend I'll try my hand at BIAB + no chill..

good times

 

[whyter]

...snip

3. Yes, it is a big mistake to add any yeast to hot wort, wait until it has gotten to your fermentation temperature before pitching. EDIT: read the question wrong, long day and I started drinking refer back to #2 instead.

#3 - I work in a commercial brewery in my spare time, and we almost always dump 4 or 5 gallons of active yeast into our boil kettle half way into the boil (20 barrel).. I know, not the point you were making, but it's not always a "big mistake" to add yeast to a hot wort - we do it routinely, but for the yeast nutrient factor..

 

[Christopherx]

I'm going to try my first AG batch this weekend. I'm going to give this NC method a try. Can someone who has experience with the NC process tell me if I'm going about this the right way? I'm a bit confused with how to modify recipes for 90 minutes and their hop schedule.

I'm brewing Bee Cave Brewery Haus Pale Ale. Recipe calls for a 60 minute boil with hops schedule at:
1.0 oz Cascade 6.6% at 60 min.
0.5 oz. Cascade 6.6% at 30 min.
0.25 oz. Cascade 6.6% at 15 min.
0.25 oz. Cascade 6.6% at 5 min.

For no chill I'm going to use a 90 minute boil to prevent DMS, and use the following hop schedule:

0.25 oz FWH Cascade
1.0 oz Cascade at 40 minutes
0.5 oz Cascade at 10 minutes
0.25 oz dry hop Cascade

Does that seem right? Thanks!

 

[The Pol]

I'm going to try my first AG batch this weekend. I'm going to give this NC method a try. Can someone who has experience with the NC process tell me if I'm going about this the right way? I'm a bit confused with how to modify recipes for 90 minutes and their hop schedule.

I'm brewing Bee Cave Brewery Haus Pale Ale. Recipe calls for a 60 minute boil with hops schedule at:
1.0 oz Cascade 6.6% at 60 min.
0.5 oz. Cascade 6.6% at 30 min.
0.25 oz. Cascade 6.6% at 15 min.
0.25 oz. Cascade 6.6% at 5 min.

For no chill I'm going to use a 90 minute boil to prevent DMS, and use the following hop schedule:

0.25 oz FWH Cascade
1.0 oz Cascade at 40 minutes
0.5 oz Cascade at 10 minutes
0.25 oz dry hop Cascade

Does that seem right? Thanks!

Looks good to me

 

[Christopherx]

Looks good to me

Thanks! :rockin:

 

[jeffmeh]

Thanks Pol. I was afraid of that, given that my hydrometer hit the concrete floor when I checked the gravity of my last batch. I think I will turn off the stir plate tomorrow morning, and see whether a reasonable amount of yeast has settled out tomorrow evening.

As an update, the stir bar kicked and there was obvious yeast that settled out to the bottom of the flask. I now have my first no-chill bubbling away in the winpak. I am going to dry-hop with loose cascade pellets in primary after 2 weeks, assuming it is down to final gravity (yes, I will have a new hydrometer, and even a refractometer by that time ). These are the hops that would have been at 2 minutes had I been chilling. I plan to crash cool for the last three days of dry hopping, then on to the keg. Thanks to all for the great info.

 

[McCuckerson]

I'm on my 5th NC brew and I'm not going back! The brew day is considerably shorter and more enjoyable. Anyway, There is an added bonus to NC method: the beer becomes drinkable sooner. I know it sounds crazy but I think it has something to do with the wort being at elevated temperature for a longer period of time. The malts and hop flavors have more time to meld together. I pulled my house amber at 3 weeks, kegged and it tasted awesome. Has anyone else experience their NC losing it green quality earlier? I have done 1wk primary, 1 wk secondary, and 1 wk cold crash and its ready to rip... infreakincredible!

 

[CalmYourself]

I've attached an Excel hop adjustment spreadsheet here.

Just put the current hops in and it'll spit out the adjusted ones.

Not the best, but it works.

It leaves FWH and Aroma Steep as is - is this still the general consensus?

If anyone has any improvements or suggestions let me know!

(the saved one has Orfy's hobgoblin clone in)

 

[smiths9312]

I've attached an Excel hop adjustment spreadsheet here.

Just put the current hops in and it'll spit out the adjusted ones.

Not the best, but it works.

It leaves FWH and Aroma Steep as is - is this still the general consensus?

If anyone has any improvements or suggestions let me know!

(the saved one has Orfy's hobgoblin clone in)

What exactly does this spreadsheet do? I saw the Pol put a chart up adjusting hop schedule to account for additional heating time. Does your spreadsheet keep time constant, but adjust the volume of hops to keep bittering the same?

 

[CalmYourself]

It IS Pol's chart, just in a excel spreadsheet.

 

[ibbones]

So on the No Chill, if I just put the hops in at the regular time, what will happen? I have only done two NC's and added the hops when it was originally scheduled.

 

[chucke]

Because no-chilled wort stays at near boiling temps longer that chilled, the hops continue “giving it up.”
IOW, you get increased hop isomerization.

Don’t adjust your hop schedule- you will probably notice your beer is bitterer that it would be if it were chilled.

 

[The Pol]

Because no-chilled wort stays at near boiling temps longer that chilled, the hops continue “giving it up.”
IOW, you get increased hop isomerization.

Don’t adjust your hop schedule- you will probably notice your beer is bitterer that it would be if it were chilled.

On behalf of my wife... more bitter

 

[chucke]

On behalf of my wife... more bitter

SOAB- Spell Check bit me in the a$$ again!
I actually had "more bitter" before SC suggested the alternate.

 

[McCuckerson]

It IS Pol's chart, just in a excel spreadsheet.

Copyright infringement

 

[Jonnio]

I am thinking about giving this a shot today, but before I do I wanted to verify that there are no issues with this plan. Also, recommendations on which plan to go with:

No chill Centennial IPA
Plan 1: Adjust the hops/sparge according to Pols chart and a 90 min. boil, split 5.5 gal into 2 cornie kegs and put 10lbs of CO2 on each. Let sit for a day or so to cool while a real wort starter is (hopefully) kicking up my PACMAN, then pour both into a fermenter.
Plan 2: Adjust the hops according to pols chart and a 90 min boil, but just use the extra 30 min to concentrate the wort down to about 4.75 - 5 gal. Single cornie with 10lbs co2. Let cool and top off with water when I add to fermenter.

Original Hop Schedule
1.00 oz Centennial [9.50 %] (60 min) Hops 30.3 IBU
0.50 oz Centennial [9.50 %] (Dry Hop 5 days) Hops -
1.00 oz Centennial [9.50 %] (15 min) Hops 15.0 IBU
1.00 oz Centennial [9.50 %] (5 min) Hops 6.0 IBU
1.00 oz Centennial [9.50 %] (1 min) Hops 1.3 IBU

Adjusted Times
1.00 oz Centennial [9.50 %] (FWH) Hops 15.0 IBU
1.00 oz Centennial [9.50 %] (40 min) Hops 30.3 IBU
2.50 oz Centennial [9.50 %] (Dry Hop 5 days) Hops -

 

[The Pol]

I am thinking about giving this a shot today, but before I do I wanted to verify that there are no issues with this plan. Also, recommendations on which plan to go with:

No chill Centennial IPA
Plan 1: Adjust the hops/sparge according to Pols chart and a 90 min. boil, split 5.5 gal into 2 cornie kegs and put 10lbs of CO2 on each. Let sit for a day or so to cool while a real wort starter is (hopefully) kicking up my PACMAN, then pour both into a fermenter.
Plan 2: Adjust the hops according to pols chart and a 90 min boil, but just use the extra 30 min to concentrate the wort down to about 4.75 - 5 gal. Single cornie with 10lbs co2. Let cool and top off with water when I add to fermenter.

Original Hop Schedule
1.00 oz Centennial [9.50 %] (60 min) Hops 30.3 IBU
0.50 oz Centennial [9.50 %] (Dry Hop 5 days) Hops -
1.00 oz Centennial [9.50 %] (15 min) Hops 15.0 IBU
1.00 oz Centennial [9.50 %] (5 min) Hops 6.0 IBU
1.00 oz Centennial [9.50 %] (1 min) Hops 1.3 IBU

Adjusted Times
1.00 oz Centennial [9.50 %] (FWH) Hops 15.0 IBU
1.00 oz Centennial [9.50 %] (40 min) Hops 30.3 IBU
2.50 oz Centennial [9.50 %] (Dry Hop 5 days) Hops -

I would say that looks like a good plan.

 

[Jonnio]

I would say that looks like a good plan.

Thanks Pol -- Would you concentrate the wort or split it if you were doing it?

I am going to order some Winpacks, but this is a stopgap first nochill.

 

[tincob]

I would like to give NC a try soon and had a few questions before I ordered any WinPacks.

I read the whole thread but it looks like most people are using AG methods to no chill. How would it work for extract or mini-mash methods? Most extract or mini-mash have only 60 min boils.

If I wanted to use Pol's revised hopping schedules, I should go with a 90 min boil?

Again, it seemed like most people had kettles with spigots for hot wort transfer into the winpacks. If I only have a normal aluminum kettle, what's the best way to transfer the hot wort into the winpack?

Some people mentioned using just pouring into a funnel and dealing with any HSA (if any, as some threads seem to come to the conclusion that HSA was a minor issue for most home brewers).

Some people mentioned using a silicone tubing to transfer? I think most racking canes would melt from the heat so how did you get the priming started without a racking cane? Detailed explanation of the process would be very helpful (for me as well as for other noobs).

And for my last question (I swear), if I used hop bags, would I be able to keep to regular hopping schedules by removing the hops before transferring the wort into the Winpacks? I know I would lose some bittering and flavor by using a hop bag but I wouldn't get excess bittering from the extended exposure to hot wort.

Sorry for all the questions but I'm really interested and like the water conservation aspects of no-chill (as well as the convenience factor). I realize the water cost save is minimal. Thanks.

 

[KopyKat]

I read the whole thread but it looks like most people are using AG methods to no chill. How would it work for extract or mini-mash methods? Most extract or mini-mash have only 60 min boils.

Works the same.

If I wanted to use Pol's revised hopping schedules, I should go with a 90 min boil?

No, it would be the same for 90 or 60 minute boil.

Again, it seemed like most people had kettles with spigots for hot wort transfer into the winpacks. If I only have a normal aluminum kettle, what's the best way to transfer the hot wort into the winpack?

Rack using a copper or stainless cane with silicone tubing. I use a Stainless Scrubby on the end to screen the trub.

Some people mentioned using just pouring into a funnel and dealing with any HSA (if any, as some threads seem to come to the conclusion that HSA was a minor issue for most home brewers).

Use the above method.

Some people mentioned using a silicone tubing to transfer? I think most racking canes would melt from the heat so how did you get the priming started without a racking cane? Detailed explanation of the process would be very helpful (for me as well as for other noobs).

Fill the racking cane and tubing with water. No need to sanitize, just clean. Hot wort will do the sanitizing.

And for my last question (I swear), if I used hop bags, would I be able to keep to regular hopping schedules by removing the hops before transferring the wort into the Winpacks? I know I would lose some bittering and flavor by using a hop bag but I wouldn't get excess bittering from the extended exposure to hot wort.

Not true, you will have gotten the same extraction as leaving the hop trub behind. The hop schedule as given by The Pol would still apply.

 

[The Pol]

Yeah, you will still get increased utilization even if you use a hop sack. Why? Well the bitterness comes from the hop oils, not the hop leaves. If you take out the leaves, the oils are still in there.

This is why your finished beer, which contains no hop leaves at all, is still bitter. It is the oils, not the leaves.

 

[jeffmeh]

I did my first no-chill yesterday, a California Common from a Midwest extract kit, and all went well with the brewing. As another first for me, I am using a stir plate for my starter. The smack pack did not expand within the first three hours, but I threw it into the starter anyway. I have yet to see any krausen in the starter, after around 17 hours. How long should I give it before giving up on it?

Here's a quick update on my first no chill, FWIW.

I checked the gravity tonight, down to FG of 1.010. The sample was very tasty, even though I had yet to add the 1 oz. Cascade pellet hops that I moved from 2 minute boil to dry hop for the no chill adjustment. I added the hops to the primary, and plan on giving them 3 more days or so at 63 deg F, then cold crash at around 35 deg F for another 4 days or thereabouts before racking to keg. So far so good.

Brewed 11/14, pitched from real wort starter on 11/15, began dry hop on 12/3....

I welcome any suggestions from the veterans.

 

[chefchris]

Here's a quick update on my first no chill, FWIW.

I checked the gravity tonight, down to FG of 1.010. The sample was very tasty, even though I had yet to add the 1 oz. Cascade pellet hops that I moved from 2 minute boil to dry hop for the no chill adjustment. I added the hops to the primary, and plan on giving them 3 more days or so at 63 deg F, then cold crash at around 35 deg F for another 4 days or thereabouts before racking to keg. So far so good.

Brewed 11/14, pitched from real wort starter on 11/15, began dry hop on 12/3....

I welcome any suggestions from the veterans.

One little suggestion; try ramping up your temps a little during dry hopping (68-70F). You'll get more out of them.

Good to hear it's working out for you.

 

[jeffmeh]

One little suggestion; try ramping up your temps a little during dry hopping (68-70F). You'll get more out of them.

Good to hear it's working out for you.

Thanks for the tip. I have it in a room in the basement, sitting on the floor that acts as a heat sink. I have been leaving the door open, and the fermentor temp stayed at a fairly constant 63F during the fermentation. I shut the door tonight, and with both a refrigerator and freezer in the relatively small room, I expect the ambient temp to rise a few degrees. I will put a small space heater in there tomorrow if I need to boost the temp a bit.

 

[CalmYourself]

So I came home from work last night, excited to pitch into the batch I brewed up on Saturday and this is what I was presented with:







Yep, my cube, all swolen up from some wild yeast fermenting inside. It's the second time it's happened to me with no-chill and I need some help trying to work out where I went wrong.

1. I brew outside, on the opposite side of the house that I crush grain on (also outside)
2. My cube is reasonably airtight, obviously except when there's massive internal pressure from active fermentation.
3. I transfer straight to my cube after turning boil off
4. I cube hopped this particular batch after about 90 minutes in the cube
5. My boiler is uncovered - still uncovered while transferring to cube
6. The cube had sanitizer sitting in it for a month before. I replaced it with fresh sanitizer the day before.

So: Am I right to assume that the wild yeast wouldn't be able to survive in the cube while it's sealed and still just off-boiling hot? If that's the case, the wild yeast HAD to have entered when I cube-hopped, right?

The late cube-hop was to emulate a aroma-hop steep (It was orfy's hobgoblin clone) so I thought I'd wait a bit before hopping in the cube. Should I have just cube hopped straight after transfer?

Completely off-topic, but should I toss it or let it do it's thing and call it a lambic hobgoblin? I don't need the cube until next month and I have plenty bottles to put it in...

 

[DerBraumeister]

Are you sure that this is not just hop-debris and CO2 from the hops.

When I dry hop in the primary, I will get quite a bit of airlock activity afterwards..

 

[juvinious]

So I came home from work last night, excited to pitch into the batch I brewed up on Saturday and this is what I was presented with:







Yep, my cube, all swolen up from some wild yeast fermenting inside. It's the second time it's happened to me with no-chill and I need some help trying to work out where I went wrong.

1. I brew outside, on the opposite side of the house that I crush grain on (also outside)
2. My cube is reasonably airtight, obviously except when there's massive internal pressure from active fermentation.
3. I transfer straight to my cube after turning boil off
4. I cube hopped this particular batch after about 90 minutes in the cube
5. My boiler is uncovered - still uncovered while transferring to cube
6. The cube had sanitizer sitting in it for a month before. I replaced it with fresh sanitizer the day before.

So: Am I right to assume that the wild yeast wouldn't be able to survive in the cube while it's sealed and still just off-boiling hot? If that's the case, the wild yeast HAD to have entered when I cube-hopped, right?

The late cube-hop was to emulate a aroma-hop steep (It was orfy's hobgoblin clone) so I thought I'd wait a bit before hopping in the cube. Should I have just cube hopped straight after transfer?

Completely off-topic, but should I toss it or let it do it's thing and call it a lambic hobgoblin? I don't need the cube until next month and I have plenty bottles to put it in...

By the looks of it, it seems you have way too much headspace.
Also you are going into the cube right after the boil and sealing it?
Are you rotating the cube so that all surfaces are hit with the boiling hot wort?
With all that headspace, if you open it up after 90 minutes you are losing your sterile conditions by allowing contaminates into it, which can probably survive in the airspace and cooler condition.. probably where you getting your spontaneous fermentation.
Unless you are going to pitch you shouldn't be opening it after sealing it with hot wort.

 

[chucke]

Juvinious covered the bases pretty well.

To add, perhaps being redundant at times-

- no-chill in a container that’s about the same size as your brew. Brewing a 19 liter batch- no-chill in a 20 liter cube. (Some brewers ferment in the same container as they no-chill, and therefore need about 4 liters more head-space… but I would try to fix the sanitation problem first.)

-make sure the cube *and cap* are both absolutely clean before you begin.

-after filling the cube, push out any airspace before closing the cap.

-set the cube on its side part of the time when the wort is near boiling, to kill any bugs that may be in the nooks and crannies of the top and cap.

-don’t open the cube until you’re ready to pitch.

Oh, it’s odd that your brew went that far south in just a couple days. It’s almost like the hops you added were coated in cow spit or something.

As to whether you should save it- ??? why not? It probably isn't going to kill you.

 

[ibbones]

I have the 6 gallon winpak and no-chill in it and then pitch in it the next day. It is my No-chill and fermenting vessel together. I only have three no-chills under my belt so I cannot answer about the head space but I did think about no-chilling in the winpak and the next day pouring the wort into a bucket and pitching since it would be a good way to aerate better.

 

[The Pol]

I no chilled all year long in the Winpaks... never had one get infected like this.

You have A LOT of headpsace

Are you turning the vessel over to let the hot wort sanitize the top, cap etc. after closing it up?

Never seen this happen to anyone.