Emergency! Infection? 80 Gallons

[Cold_Steel]

https://cdn.homebrewtalk.com/gallery/data/1/medium/cabots_beer_001.jpg
I started bottling using my sideport and noticed white stuff showing up as you can see in the picture. It was all across the top in broken sections but then it sank to the bottom when i went to get camera.
https://cdn.homebrewtalk.com/gallery/data/1/medium/cabots_beer_002.jpg
Opened the lid and this is what I saw. This is an infection correct? If it is what can I do about it. Rack from the bottom? I can rotate the racking arm to the side so it does not skim that stuff. Or I can dump from the bottom. The only problem is storage. I do not have enough bottles here to bottle all of them right now. I have 2 other 55 gallon storage tanks.
Please advise?

 

[bierhaus15]

My god. Is that an oil barrel?

Well, if you don't want to dump it, I would suggest racking as best you can under the pellicle and trying to avoid getting as much of that stuff into the botteling bucket. I would bottle right away and drink it young. It probably wont taste the greatest, but its better than dumping, right?

Though I have had limited success adding campden tablets to an infected batch to stop the infection and then adding fresh yeast when bottling. It worked pretty well, but it was only a 5 gallon batch. Sorry to see so much beer go infected.

 

[Bobby_M]

I think you'd want to open up all the tanks to see if they're all the same. How does it taste/smell? I've never seen a chunky white sheet like that. Anyone? I think you're discovering the perils of large batch fermentation. The bigger they are, the harder they fall.

 

[Cold_Steel]

OMG WHAT ITS GONE!!! From infection. This is nutz. In 2 days, it went from 1.072 to 1.010.

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

That was incoherent. Is it actively fermenting? It doesn't look good, but maybe it is just strange yeast behavior?

Yeast strain? Temps?

No infection I have seen has taken hold completely in two days, maybe it is just weird looking yeast.

 

[Cold_Steel]

So it was brewed 6 weeks ago. Really it has just been aging because its a belgian triple. it was a wlp 500 at 68 the entire time.

 

[JVD_X]

ok - so how does it taste?

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

Is the gravity stilling dropping?

 

[Cold_Steel]

It tastes just like it smells. GOOD. It has really smoothed out. It tastes like a nice belgian triple

 

[Cold_Steel]

no the gravity is the same at 1.010
I mean its at 8%. I dont understand how an infection can occur.

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

maybe it is just yeast???

 

[Cold_Steel]

Should I order the 400+ bottles and starter the bottling operation on the fly?
IT TASTES GOOD. I dont know what an infection tastes like. I havent had one before but i can say it tastes and smells good. I had someone else just taste it too.
IF i bottle should i skim that crud off the top?

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

I would let it sit and monitor the gravity. If it starts to drop, you have a problem.

 

[Walker]

I am of no help here. You could give me a highly prized belgian and I would swear that it was infected.

 

[Cold_Steel]

What does the gravity dropping mean? That its eating?

 

[COLObrewer]

Personally, if it tastes right I would bottle as normal, or better yet, keg it. Looks like a layer of bacon grease on the top though, just stop bottling when it gets close.

 

[slouch]

Since I don't think there are any harmful pathogens that can exist in beer, in my mind an infection is simply some living organism (different yeast strain, aceto-bacteria, etc) that get inside in an unplanned way, and give bad flavors.

If they get in, but the flavors are good, then you got a surprise not an infection. (sounds like a Belgian too me, think lambic)

If the flavors are bad, but no strange organisms you got a defect not an infection.

Those are just my thoughts.

If it was me, I would try to rack it off to a sanitary container and bottle a 6 pack.

If after 2 weeks the bottles taste good, and the main batch looks and tastes good, you're probably OK.

The Camden seems like a possibility if you are still worried after the 2 weeks.

Dumping it seems extreme too me. If you were planning to sell it, and the quality is not there to match a style, then you simply have plenty of beer for your next party.

By the way. The scum on the surface didn't look like an infection to me. To me it looked like a mineral or protein scum.

 

[COLObrewer]

Wait, is there a closer picture of it while racking? You may want to let it settle once after racking.

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

If the gravity continues to drop that means there is an organism eating the remaining sugars and it is probably not a good idea to bottle. Best to avoid bottle bombs... especially 80 gallons of bottle bombs.

 

[Cold_Steel]

Wait, is there a closer picture of it while racking? You may want to let it settle once after racking.

When I was taking it out of the side port I would notice little white things going through the tube. Then when the bottling bucket began to fill the top layer was the white stuff just smaller and more broken up. But when i came back for the camera and other times its completely gone off the top of the bottling bucket.

 

[Cold_Steel]

Since I don't think there are any harmful pathogens that can exist in beer, in my mind an infection is simply some living organism (different yeast strain, aceto-bacteria, etc) that get inside in an unplanned way, and give bad flavors.

If they get in, but the flavors are good, then you got a surprise not an infection. (sounds like a Belgian too me, think lambic)

If the flavors are bad, but no strange organisms you got a defect not an infection.

Those are just my thoughts.

If it was me, I would try to rack it off to a sanitary container and bottle a 6 pack.

If after 2 weeks the bottles taste good, and the main batch looks and tastes good, you're probably OK.

The Camden seems like a possibility if you are still worried after the 2 weeks.

Dumping it seems extreme too me. If you were planning to sell it, and the quality is not there to match a style, then you simply have plenty of beer for your next party.

By the way. The scum on the surface didn't look like an infection to me. To me it looked like a mineral or protein scum.

if its not an infection in your opinion. I should bottle this right? I have never seen mineral or protein scum before and no one else on here thinks it looks like an infection. to me your explaination makes sense because I want it too however for more reasons than that. In 2 days it reached its target final gravity. Then 5 weeks later this appears. There are no more sugars left ot eat. so infection doesnt seem likely. Plus it tastes great! and smells great too. I think i am going to skim it off the top then bottle the rest.

 

[COLObrewer]

. . . . There are no more sugars left ot eat. so infection doesnt seem likely. Plus it tastes great! and smells great too. I think i am going to skim it off the top then bottle the rest.

Actually there are sugars left if it is at 1.010, that is just where your ale yeast will stop. Numerous other organisms like lactobacillus, bretanomyces and others (See lambic or flanders style beer) will ferment the longer chains that beer yeasts leave behind, making your gravity sometimes below 1.000000000. (and wine/champagne yeast for that matter will also ferment fully)

We cannot say if it is an infection of one of these organisms or not. Unfortunately the only way to tell would be to wait (A long a$$ time) to see if it starts tasting "OFF", by then it would most assuredly be infected with something.

Personally I would bottle it since it tastes fine. Kegging would be better since it is questionable, AND since there is just so damn much of it! If you were in Colorado I could help you dispose of it, HEH

 

[Bobby_M]

If the scum all falls out, you can bottle by racking off the top and following the level down. 80 gallons of trippel? Geez, I hope you have some friends.

 

[Cold_Steel]

I went to a probrewer site and this is what was said.
I see this often when I dry hop in bags through the top of the fermenter. I figured it was something on the hops themselves or the nylon bags (although I always sanitize the bags and not the hops). I've always assumed that it stays essentially outside of the beer and not IN the beer due, possibly, to the alcohol in the beer and not on the surface/air above the beer. Seen it often and never associated with off flavors, colors, cloudiness, etc.

So I think this beer is going to be a ok but just to make sure I believe i might send a sample to scotts lab and have it tested.
Thanks again everyone for your help!! That was a nightmare

 

[Chudz]

If the scum all falls out, you can bottle by racking off the top and following the level down. 80 gallons of trippel? Geez, I hope you have some friends.

Um, if you don't have any friends, I'd like to sign up!

 

[Cold_Steel]

Um, if you don't have any friends, I'd like to sign up!

well we will see about that. I do not think this story is over just yet.

 

[-TPM-]

You could always sterile filter it. Just an idea.

 

[Cold_Steel]

Try tasting the pellicle itself. A pellicle would be a floating growth, especially thick, looking like (but not necessarily being!) mold.

Ok so the white stuff on top tastes like oranges which was used in the recipe. The white stuff was creamy in texture. It by no means had any bad taste whatsoever. If you look in the picture it looks like colonies are growing in certain parts of the white film. However, after further review it is air bubbles trapped under it. Also, in the beer there were white pieces (what i would call the same thing) in suspension and moving up and down. It was a rise and sink motion. So whatever this is not only is on top but is in the body as well. Which makes sense because my side port does not go all the way up. So when i was racking to my bottling bucket i was getting the white stuff from the body of the beer.
If you have any other info to add to the new info please do. So far this beer is awesome in taste.
Thanks
Cabot

 

[user 22118]

I would filter it never the less if you can prior to bottling. This will at least get rid of most of the chunks. Then cold crash or fine and bottle. 80 gallons is a lot of beer to be having floaters in.

 

[Saccharomyces]

Sterile filtration is the best idea if you are unsure. Use a 1 micron filter followed by a .5 micron filter which is small enough to filter out even bacteria. You can then add bottling yeast and proceed without worry it will go sour or cause bottle bombs. You will lose a little bit of body but at 1.010 already it won't be effected too much.

 

[Cold_Steel]

Thanks guys. I really dont have the means to filter just yet. However I may need to find the means.
Was anymore info revealed in post #28

 

[glockentalk]

Ok so the white stuff on top tastes like oranges which was used in the recipe.

That's probably your answer: some oily residue from the oranges. Nothing to worry about.

 

[ChshreCat]

That's probably your answer: some oily residue from the oranges. Nothing to worry about.

That's just what I was thinking it could be. That's a huge volume there, so you're going to see some strange things that folks doing 5 and 10 gallon batches might not experience. If you used the orange peels, that could be orange oil floating on the top and coagulating with something else in the beer, making some sort of scum.

 

[Cold_Steel]

God I hope so guys LOL. I couldnt sleep at all last night.

 

[slouch]

Thanks guys. I really dont have the means to filter just yet. However I may need to find the means.
Was anymore info revealed in post #28

To me it sounds more and more like protien or mineral scum like I mentioned earlier. Boiling milk makes a protien scum on top. Enzyme activity could produce it at colder temps.

I would bottle a 6 pack. Take 1-2 gallons and boil it with finings and reintroduce slowly to the main batch. If you don't blend it slowly and really mix it in, the finings will just sit on top of the batch.

Let the finings sit for 1-2 weeks or untill it is clear. Meanwhile you have a 6 pack which you should be able to see how well it settles out without the finings.

 

[CDbrews]

I had something like that on a 25 gallon batch of stout a couple weeks ago. i wanted to fill a keg so a took the small cap off the fermenter and saw something that looked the exact same. I filled the keg anyway and it was great. wasnt the same taste as the stout ive brewed before, it had a little bit of an oaky taste, but was delicious and a new way to enjoy a favorite beer. Im just hopin i can get it again. when i go to bottle the rest of the batch ill take some pics.

 

[Cold_Steel]

At this point, I have to say those are encouraging words. I hope it turns out for the best. I hope this is the first strain of the white funk to drop the bomb on us all.
I mean MY GOD I TASTED THAT MONKEY JUNK. I have to say I am really maturing as a brewer.
Thanks again everyone for all your help. If you look through all the post you will really see why. Anyways, Thanks!

 

[squeekysheep]

nothing nasty is going to live in that beer, or grow that quick. let your beer age bottling after 2 days is a horrible idea. if it smell good it's not an infection.

 

[ChshreCat]

nothing nasty is going to live in that beer, or grow that quick. let your beer age bottling after 2 days is a horrible idea. if it smell good it's not an infection.

That depends on your definition of "nasty"

But nothing that can kill you can live in it.

 

[Cold_Steel]

nothing nasty is going to live in that beer, or grow that quick. let your beer age bottling after 2 days is a horrible idea. if it smell good it's not an infection.

no the beer has aged now for 6 weeks. Its a unitank and i dumped the trub the in the first 2 weeks. I am going to bottle condition it for 2 months now.