Electric controller: Is this what I need? Brumatic

[Yourrealdad]

I am still trying to figure out how to automate my brewing and looking at electric seems daunting.

Before someone says I should DIY, I am not good at electrical stuff. So far all I have made are my dual stage temp controllers and my stir plate, neither of which is going to kill me or burn my house down if I f up.

Plus the time it would take to source parts and build it is probably so long that in terms of opportunity costs I would actually come out behind in "savings".

So I found this box and it seems to be great.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Brumatic-DB...2-elements-PID-infinite-control-/221607809879

However I know little about what I will actually need beyond what I have read about electric brewing.

Can some people chime in on the pros and cons of this controller? I have searched the forums and all I know about it is that Brumatic is a member on here?

If I am correct I can control a RIMS or HERMS and my BK with this. It looks like there is 2 connections for sensor probes and control for my pumps. Seems like almost everything I need and similar to what the ebrewsupply and theelectricbrewery are offering.

A big question I have is if I can only control 2 elements how does one heat water for the HLT, control the RIMS, and then boil in the BK? Do you switch out the plug of the element and swap it in?

What about the sensor probes? Can I add another (3rd) probe to this system somehow?
Here is a 2 element controller, but it has 3 PIDs and 3 probes so do you need a PID per probe?
http://www.ebrewsupply.com/shop/ebrew-control-panels/30-control-panels/asb-pid-0322.html

If there is 3 PIDs and 3 probes why is it only able to control 2 elements? The Brumatic is controlling 2 elements with 2 PIDs and assuming 2 probes.

Sorry for the long post and rambling. Hopefully my questions make sense.
I appreciate the forums' help on figuring all this stuff out.

 

[Hello]

Hey, I bought my controller from Alex (Brumatic) and I couldn't be happier. Although I haven't used it, he gave me everything that I asked for.

He can completely customize the control panel to suit your needs. Somehow I haven't run him of with my numerous questions, he is very attentive, even after purchase.

I do not know as much about RIMS as I do HERMS because I am building a HERMS brewery. However, if you need three elements, he can do that for you. I didn't know RIMS required a heating element on top of the one in the HLT and BK. So if you didn't customize it then you'd likely have to swap plugs.

I have two heating elements, one in my HLT and one in my BK. I have a 50a panel so I can run back to back if I want. I have two probes and two PIDs. I went with a PID for the BK because I can set it to 200, an alarm should sound and I'll know that I need to now pay attention to the boil. It gives me a little freedom to do other stuff while waiting for the boil.

I have two plugs for pumps as well. I went with two different probes, one is an NPT fitting and the other goes directly through the kettle wall. Again, another choice I got to make. You don't need a PID for a probe, I don't think. I could be wrong, but I thought the PID was more about letting me set a temp and not have to watch a thermometer. I won't have any probes or PIDs for my mash tun. The mash will rely on the HLT. I'll have my thermometer probe set up so that if the wort entering the HERMS coil is dropping, the system kicks on and heats up again. For mash out, I just turn the setting up to 170. For example.

Cons of the unit? None. I did not feel comfortable building myself and Alex was recommended by another member here. I realize it is rad to DIY and all that, but I do what makes me comfortable.

 

[dragonfire540]

I am still trying to figure out how to automate my brewing and looking at electric seems daunting.

Before someone says I should DIY, I am not good at electrical stuff. So far all I have made are my dual stage temp controllers and my stir plate, neither of which is going to kill me or burn my house down if I f up.

Plus the time it would take to source parts and build it is probably so long that in terms of opportunity costs I would actually come out behind in "savings".

So I found this box and it seems to be great.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Brumatic-DB...2-elements-PID-infinite-control-/221607809879

However I know little about what I will actually need beyond what I have read about electric brewing.

Can some people chime in on the pros and cons of this controller? I have searched the forums and all I know about it is that Brumatic is a member on here?

If I am correct I can control a RIMS or HERMS and my BK with this. It looks like there is 2 connections for sensor probes and control for my pumps. Seems like almost everything I need and similar to what the ebrewsupply and theelectricbrewery are offering.

A big question I have is if I can only control 2 elements how does one heat water for the HLT, control the RIMS, and then boil in the BK? Do you switch out the plug of the element and swap it in?

What about the sensor probes? Can I add another (3rd) probe to this system somehow?
Here is a 2 element controller, but it has 3 PIDs and 3 probes so do you need a PID per probe?
http://www.ebrewsupply.com/shop/ebrew-control-panels/30-control-panels/asb-pid-0322.html

If there is 3 PIDs and 3 probes why is it only able to control 2 elements? The Brumatic is controlling 2 elements with 2 PIDs and assuming 2 probes.

Sorry for the long post and rambling. Hopefully my questions make sense.
I appreciate the forums' help on figuring all this stuff out.

Not bad from what I see. Basic but nice concept. I think I should go into business building an Install it yourself unit.

Looks like two elements, but only one at a time can be used. Likely due to load on circuit, only 30A
One would run in a HLT with PID control and Temp probe. Maintain you heat and use HERMS to heat the mash tun. One of the two pump outputs to run the HERMS pump I would think

The other looks like for boil kettle. It said it was on infinit adjustment to set boil intensity.The second probe would likely go there. The second pump you could use to pump water to Mash tun or wort to boil. or do it wort to boil and use same pump with a 3 way valve to short with HLT water and HERMS system


It said it has a switch to switch between elements. Two elements will work if you are using HERMS
you might also be able to use one probe in HLT with element, and one in a RIMS tube with probe inline someplace like what brewhardware offers. and then not use electric in the boil kettle.

In a setup like this looks like one probe per PID looks like they are using a PID controller wired to relay perhaps that controls the element. That would use just one probe. Looks like the might have two of those PID controllers so that would give you two elements and two probes. A third probe would not likely help for anything in this setup as the probe is what tells the PID controller how to handle its output calculations on the Proportional, Integral, and Derivitive outputs.



This is just from what I can see on that listing, I could be wrong but that makes sense to me.

 

[Yourrealdad]

Thanks for the quick replies.

So is this system better suited for a HERMS setup? I was going to go that route, but then started thinking I would want to do some step mashes and I have read that RIMS are better at ramping temps.

Is the difference between 30A and 50A that I can use two elements at the same time?

So could I conceivably start with my RIMS element and HLT element plugged in and recirculate my mash and then sparge (This doesn't seem like it would work if one at a time), then unplug the HLT and plug in the BK?
Still seems like I am missing a probe and control somewhere

Is the downside that I can only use one element at a time? Can you use the other linked control panel to have both elements go at the same time

 

[dragonfire540]

According to what I read on the eBay post it is one at a time. you have to switch between them with a manual switch.
these days since all the malts are highly modified step mashes are not nessesary beyond mash in temp and Mash out temp. HERMS or RIMS will be fine. I use RIMS but been concider switching to HERMS since with rims I sometimes scorch the Wort too much.

30 and 50 amp... yeah 50 would allow for both bur 30 just one depending on how they are set up but this unit said one or other.
3 probes would be ideal here but i see they only give you two.

 

[Hello]

BRU-Matic works with RIMS or HERMS. 30a will let you run one element at a time. This is true for any panel. 50a will let you run two. Again, true for all panels. Even Kal's. There's nothing basic about it, it's as basic as a Kal clone...if you call that basic.

 

[Yourrealdad]

So if I can only control one element at a time how do I control the RIMS tube and hear sparge water. Do you recirc and then drain the mash and while draining heat the HLT water to sparge?

Is this then better for batch sparging or fly?

Sorry just a little confused

 

[crane]

So is this system better suited for a HERMS setup? I was going to go that route, but then started thinking I would want to do some step mashes and I have read that RIMS are better at ramping temps.

This is not necessarily true. RIMS will ramp faster than HERMS. However, I and others have learned that ramping out of a 120F protein rest can be problematic with RIMS. The protein tends to stick to the heating element and causes scorching. I have found that starting with a very low water to grain ratio and then doing a second infusion to raise out of the protein rest works well. You would not have this problem with HERMS because the wort doesn't come in contact with the heating element.