Electric brewery plans - need help

[wildwest450]

hey guys, very new to this, but one quick question, as I do not want to hi-jack the thread. Is it possible to do this all on a 120v circuit? This has really sparked my interests, but I am not sure if I have the available electrical power.... Thanks.

Short answer, No, not what he's doing.

 

[Walker]

I've been looking at that site too. I found a few items I might pick up, one of them being this for my control panel power cord.

Tiber....

Another word of caution. That cable you linked to will certainly handle the load you want, but I wanted to point out that it is 6 gauge wire.

The modular power distribution stuff I pointed you to (and that you said you were going to also use) states that the max wire size it can handle is 8 gauge.

 

[Ohio-Ed]

Tiber....

Another word of caution. That cable you linked to will certainly handle the load you want, but I wanted to point out that it is 6 gauge wire.

The modular power distribution stuff I pointed you to (and that you said you were going to also use) states that the max wire size it can handle is 8 gauge.

I bought 10mm terminal blocks from Mouser that will handle 6 gauge. I have some extra (6mm and 8mm also), if that is the direction you want to go. I planned on putting some stuff I've collected in the classifieds eventually.

Also, I bought a 50amp plug with a built in handle from an ebay RV/camping place. It is a "PowerGrip" like this one:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/RV-M...5fRVQ5fTrailerQ5fCamperQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

 

[Tiber_Brew]

Tiber....

Another word of caution. That cable you linked to will certainly handle the load you want, but I wanted to point out that it is 6 gauge wire.

The modular power distribution stuff I pointed you to (and that you said you were going to also use) states that the max wire size it can handle is 8 gauge.

Thanks Walker, but in this post I point out the bus bars that I'm going to use. Rated at 100 amp, and pretty good price. Shouldn't have a problem with those.

They finally sent me the right ones, and looking at them, 6 AWG will work just fine.

Also got my fuse holders in today too.

I'm getting close to mocking up a layout of my control panel and bringing it in to the machine shop.

TB

 

[Tiber_Brew]

Sorry I don't have many updates and pictures of the stuff I have so far guys. My wife and I just bought a house and we're in the process of moving. That's taking considerable amounts of my time and money (both of which I need to take away from brewing and building my rig).

I'll try to post updates with pictures when I can.

TiberjusttotheothersideoftownBrew

 

[Gabrew]

What size enclosure would you use for such a setup?

Thanks!

 

[Tiber_Brew]

What size enclosure would you use for such a setup?

Thanks!

I bought two, and decided to sell the one I ended up not using.

I got a 14x16x10 and 10x12x6. I'm going to use the bigger one, and sell the 10x12x6. They both would work, but I wanted a bit more space in case I ever upgrade and/or add more components into the box.

TB

 

[Gabrew]

Sounds good! Would you mind telling me where you purchased these enclosures? Any updates on the build?

Thanks

 

[Tiber_Brew]

I got them both from eBay. Are you looking for one? I could sell you my spare if you wanted. I would sell it to you at my cost, no looking to make any money or anything.

No updates yet. We're still in the process of unpacking all of our stuff (we have a lot!). This whole home buying business is expensive, so this project will have to wait a month or two for my funds to replenish. Ya know how it goes...

TB

 

[Walker]

Note that tiber is using two dual SSR modules (two SSRs in one package the same size as a single SSR).

I'm guessing that it would be would be pretty crowded in a 10x12x6 box if you used 4 single SSRs.

 

[Tiber_Brew]

Note that tiber is using two dual SSR modules (two SSRs in one package the same size as a single SSR).

I'm guessing that it would be would be pretty crowded in a 10x12x6 box if you used 4 single SSRs.

Indeed, especially with heat sinks.

TB

 

[mattd2]

Note that tiber is using two dual SSR modules (two SSRs in one package the same size as a single SSR).

I'm guessing that it would be would be pretty crowded in a 10x12x6 box if you used 4 single SSRs.

Are the dual SSRs 2 completely seperate SSRs or do the share the same trigger (don't know the right word for that)? Just thinking about single points of failure if it is 1 control feed controlling 2 swtiches, but I am probably wrong .

I know I could check this myself so sorry for being lazy (but others might benifit aswell)

 

[Gabrew]

Note that tiber is using two dual SSR modules (two SSRs in one package the same size as a single SSR).

I'm guessing that it would be would be pretty crowded in a 10x12x6 box if you used 4 single SSRs.

hmm good point, plus i'll be using two 4500W elements in my HLT...thus more SSRs

TB...would you have the kindness (and time) to put up all the parts you have gathered for the projects as well as their suppliers?

Thanks!

 

[Tiber_Brew]

Are the dual SSRs 2 completely seperate SSRs or do the share the same trigger (don't know the right word for that)? Just thinking about single points of failure if it is 1 control feed controlling 2 swtiches, but I am probably wrong .

I know I could check this myself so sorry for being lazy (but others might benifit aswell)

Basically I have two units that are the size of a standard SSR. Each unit switches both legs of the heating element. Two dual SSRs functions the same as 4 single SSRs, but saves space. Each SSRD will share the same input signal. They have two sets of DC input leads, but will be wired in parallel from the PID.

Hope that helps.

hmm good point, plus i'll be using two 4500W elements in my HLT...thus more SSRs

TB...would you have the kindness (and time) to put up all the parts you have gathered for the projects as well as their suppliers?

Thanks!

Two 4500W elements in an HLT? Just curious...why the overkill?

Yes, I will post a parts list along with costs and suppliers. I will probably update the OP with that. I do not have everything in one place right now, as I'm still unpacking from a big move. Once I get started back up with this project, I'll post what I've got so far.

TibersorrytokeepyouwaitingBrew

 

[mattd2]

Basically I have two units that are the size of a standard SSR. Each unit switches both legs of the heating element. Two dual SSRs functions the same as 4 single SSRs, but saves space. Each SSRD will share the same input signal. They have two sets of DC input leads, but will be wired in parallel from the PID.

Hope that helps.

Sort of, but sort of not.... So does each SSRD has 2 outputs but do they have 1 or 2 inputs? And do you know when a SSR fails (as this is the reason for using 2) if it is usually the triac or the LED that fails? I ask because if it is the LED failure that is common then the SSRD an no benifit over using just 1 SSR, if it is the triac that fails then there is benifit.
Cheers

 

[Tiber_Brew]

Sort of, but sort of not.... So does each SSRD has 2 outputs but do they have 1 or 2 inputs? And do you know when a SSR fails (as this is the reason for using 2) if it is usually the triac or the LED that fails? I ask because if it is the LED failure that is common then the SSRD an no benifit over using just 1 SSR, if it is the triac that fails then there is benifit.
Cheers

To put it simply: there are two SSRs in one unit. Two separate relays in one package. There are two sets of inputs and two sets of outputs. I'm going to wire the inputs in parallel from the PID, so the two outputs will be simultaneous.

The main benefit of using and SSRD is that it saves significant amount of space, especially if you require 4 relays in one enclosure. That's half the space.

I'm not familiar enough with the failure modes and effects analysis of SSRDs to comment on that. Perhaps some googling is in order? I'm curious myself. If you find any definite answers, post them here because I'm interested. I would imagine that each relay within the SSRD could fail independently.

TibergottalovesiliconBrew

 

[mattd2]

To put it simply: there are two SSRs in one unit. Two separate relays in one package. There are two sets of inputs and two sets of outputs. I'm going to wire the inputs in parallel from the PID, so the two outputs will be simultaneous.

The main benefit of using and SSRD is that it saves significant amount of space, especially if you require 4 relays in one enclosure. That's half the space.

I'm not familiar enough with the failure modes and effects analysis of SSRDs to comment on that. Perhaps some googling is in order? I'm curious myself. If you find any definite answers, post them here because I'm interested. I would imagine that each relay within the SSRD could fail independently.

TibergottalovesiliconBrew

Sweet as, my concern has been put to rest. If they are 2 seperate SSRs just in the same package I can't see any issues with failures more so than actually using 2 seperate SSRs. If noone asks the stupid questions then sometimes the obvious gets overlooked

 

[Tiber_Brew]

No such thing as stupid questions when it comes to this kind of stuff. I've asked quite a few "obvious" things on this thread myself.

TB

 

[reeyawd]

Hey Tiber....any updates?

 

[reeyawd]

Hey P-J...what software are you using to sketch this out. I'm planning my eBrew system off this sketch...just have a couple adds.

 

[P-J]

Hey P-J...what software are you using to sketch this out. I'm planning my eBrew system off this sketch...just have a couple adds.

I use Microsoft Image Composer.
What do you want to add/change?

 

[reeyawd]

I use Microsoft Image Composer.
What do you want to add/change?

I'm thinking of using a BCS-460 with otherwise the same setup.

 

[P-J]

I'm thinking of using a BCS-460 with otherwise the same setup.

Something like this?



(Click the image for a full sized diagram)

 

[Tiber_Brew]

Hey Tiber....any updates?

Got a few more parts in.

 

[Gabrew]

Lookin good! Did you purchase all the electronics from the same retailer?

 

[Tiber_Brew]

While I'm at it, I'll show you guys some more pics

The soon to be replaced two tier method:

Some of my malt stash:

Equipment, chemicals, etc.:

Some of my bottled beer:

What's on tap:

Part of the "beer section" of the basement:

 

[Tiber_Brew]

Lookin good! Did you purchase all the electronics from the same retailer?

That would be convenient, wouldn't it?

No, they came from all corners of the internet and local hardware stores. I will post a bill of materials with sources. I promise that.

TiberfifteenstopshoppingBrew

 

[Gabrew]

Wish i had that much space for my brewing needs

 

[Tiber_Brew]

Wish i had that much space for my brewing needs

Until recently, I didn't even have a basement. I paid my dues.

TibermakingthemostuseofnewbasementBrew

 

[reeyawd]

Something like this?



(Click the image for a full sized diagram)

Thanks PJ...this looks great!

Tiber, what are those style of switches called? Thanks.

 

[Tiber_Brew]

Thanks PJ...this looks great!

Tiber, what are those style of switches called? Thanks.

I'm using illuminated selector switches such as this one.

 

[Tiber_Brew]

For wiring the enclosure, what wire will I need and how much of it? Does anyone have a good way to estimate that?

I'm going to Lowe's this weekend and will hopefully pick up some much needed parts for my project while I'm there.

Keep in mind the nearest Lowe's is 100 miles away. This is a big deal for me -like a kid in a playground!

Thanks,
TB

 

[P-J]

For wiring the enclosure, what wire will I need and how much of it? Does anyone have a good way to estimate that?

I'm going to Lowe's this weekend and will hopefully pick up some much needed parts for my project while I'm there.

Keep in mind the nearest Lowe's is 100 miles away. This is a big deal for me -like a kid in a playground!

This link will take you to an excellent wire gage chart: cerrowire.com

For the circuits before the breakers the wire needs to be rated for 50 amps (the value of your mains breaker). You can use #8 THW/THWN or you can just use some of the wire (a foot or two) from your power cord.

The wiring after your breakers should be sized for the breaker value. #14 wire for the 15 amp breakers, # 10 for the 25 amp breakers.

I think you would only need 3 or 4 feet of each type and color. I suggest that you use stranded wire instead of solid copper as it is more flexible. Another thought for you. If you intend to use crimp on connectors, solder the crimped connection after crimping. This is important on the high current lines (heating element connections for example). Trust me on this one, it will save you a lot of grief down the road.

Hope this helps.

 

[Tiber_Brew]

This link will take you to an excellent wire gage chart: cerrowire.com

For the circuits before the breakers the wire needs to be rated for 50 amps (the value of your mains breaker). You can use #8 THW/THWN or you can just use some of the wire (a foot or two) from your power cord.

The wiring after your breakers should be sized for the breaker value. #14 wire for the 15 amp breakers, # 10 for the 25 amp breakers.

I think you would only need 3 or 4 feet of each type and color. I suggest that you use stranded wire instead of solid copper as it is more flexible. Another thought for you. If you intend to use crimp on connectors, solder the crimped connection after crimping. This is important on the high current lines (heating element connections for example). Trust me on this one, it will save you a lot of grief down the road.

Hope this helps.

Thanks P-J.

I picked up the wire this weekend, among some other materials. Man, I wish we had a Lowe's or Home Depot in my town.

More updates soon...

TB

 

[Gabrew]

any updates?

 

[P-J]

any updates?

Yes.! I wish I lived closer to you. The wiring would be completed now.

 

[corvus]

Another thought for you. If you intend to use crimp on connectors, solder the crimped connection after crimping. This is important on the high current lines (heating element connections for example). Trust me on this one, it will save you a lot of grief down the road.

I'm following this thread with some interest as it's very similar to my brewery. I'm curious how one solders crimps once they're crimped? I can see how it would make things more secure, but I don't know how I'd go about it since there is a plastic cover in the way (often mangled).

 

[SweetSounds]

I will either buy the crimp connectors without the plastic covers, or you can generally just pull the plastic cover off before you crimp them on the wire.

Then I'll slide a 1/2" or so piece of heat shrink tubing on the wire and crimp the connector. Solder the crimp, and shrink the tubing. You wind up with a pretty indestructible connection.

 

[Tiber_Brew]

any updates?

Yes.! I wish I lived closer to you. The wiring would be completed now.

My apologies, guys. Things are going a bit slow lately since I just bought and moved into a new house. I just got back from a week long hiking trip at Isle Royale National Park, too.

I'm anxious to get back to this project, so I will be giving P-J another call soon and taking more pictures as I go.

I will also post the promised parts list with prices too.

TiberblistersonmyanklesBrew

 

[tedpeer]

Isle Royale? You're forgiven.