eHerm Control System for Geeks?

[VulgarCelt]

I am planning out my eHerms build now. One of the topics I have been chewing on is whether or not to simply purchase some very basic PID / thermocouple controllers and use them for my controls (Electric Brewery), or to develop a system using a data acquisition device such as those available from National Instruments and some homegrown software.

I am a very experienced software developer with considerable time spent in process manufacturing so I am thinking the software itself shouldn't be a tough tackle for me. And it appears that I can get an excellent level of granularity and reporting with a "soft" system that would be difficult to attain with the basic PID controller in a metal box. Is it worth the expense / effort beyond the "coolness" factor of doing it?

Has anyone out there already done something similar? If so can you provide details?

 

[thekraken]

Sure, a few of us make our own controllers. I'm currently using an Arduino with my own code to control my RIMS. The brewpi project uses sparks to control their HERMS. Even if you don't want an off the shelf PID there are libraries for other platforms out there so you don't have to reinvent the wheel.

As far as is it worth the effort? I dunno, that's a personal decision. I have fun playing with it, plus there is always room for upgrades, addons, sensors, etc. in the future. But depending on how much of the wheel you are reinventing it can be rather time consuming.

Ain't it great when different hobbies come together?

(edit) It is nice being able to tweak how your controller will work for your own system, I understand that off the shelf PID algorithms get the job done but they aren't quite ideal, they're pretty generic. As to whether that makes a difference in the end... IDK, you could probably shave a little time off your brewday with your own algorithms.

 

[LandoLincoln]

Well, it depends on how automated you're looking for or how automated you think you'll go.

If you just want a system that will reliably ramp and hold temps that you manually set, then PIDs will suit you just fine.

If you might ever want a system that will transfer wort from the mash tun to the bk after a set mash time and then begin to boil it once the volume is correct, then you'll want to go with your arduino type of setup.

You used the phrase "granularity and reporting" so I'm thinking option B is probably the way you should go.

Just don't come crying to me when the cylons take over your brew day.

 

[TungstenBeer]

There have been a couple really detailed panels in terms of the software/electronics used. I think I saw some in this thread that even had touchscreens using their own personally designed software:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/show-us-your-panel-374580/

 

[JamesR]

Sounds like a great project. I spent about 10 years developing manufacturing software in an industrial setting myself (NI TestStand / C/C++ libraries), but now that I'm planning out my eHLT (and eventual eHERMS), I'm most likely going to use Doug Edey's Strangebrew Elsinore software. I'll run it on a Pi and control it via the web interface. You should check it out before committing to so much work yourself. And it's in active development; I believe Doug would accept help if you'd like to build out features.

 

[DougEdey]

I believe Doug would accept help if you'd like to build out features.

Can confirm.

 

[flugelizor]

I am also a software engineer. I'm sure I have the capability to write a program that will work.
But I don't have a lot of free time, and I thought a BCS460 would be a much quicker and easier way to achieve my goals.
Now I have had it going for a few months, and it does everything I want. I am very pleased with my decision.

 

[schematix]

I am a controls engineer who is very good with controls and software and i bought an off the shelf chinese PID. I could have made something much better and customized it to my preferences but i'd be in it for a lot more money and a lot more time. Maybe in 5-10 years when i go to automate everything i'll write all the control software myself but for now i'd rather make beer with my chinese PIDs that hold temperature set points dead nuts.

 

[thekraken]

@flugelizor & schematix, I definite understand your points. I just wanted to add my data point: I spent all of 30 minutes writing code for my current basic arduino based RIMS controller. All I had to do was include libraries for existing one-wire and PID libraries, and tune it up a little bit. This is obviously temporary but it got me through my first brew day and a couple sous vide'd steaks, and I expect to continuously upgrade my software and hardware features, but as is it's just as functional as an off the shelf PID. My point is that with something like an arduino and existing libraries it really doesn't take much effort to get things going.

Expense till now hasn't been bad either, I'm using a $2 arduino pro mini (ebay), $1.50 temp sensor, $17 for a 20x4 serial LCD display. I've got several other 'accessories' for this project but haven't gotten around to including them yet, as y'all mentioned free time is the hardest part to come by.

 

[VulgarCelt]

@flugelizor & schematix, I definite understand your points. I just wanted to add my data point: I spent all of 30 minutes writing code for my current basic arduino based RIMS controller. All I had to do was include libraries for existing one-wire and PID libraries, and tune it up a little bit. This is obviously temporary but it got me through my first brew day and a couple sous vide'd steaks, and I expect to continuously upgrade my software and hardware features, but as is it's just as functional as an off the shelf PID. My point is that with something like an arduino and existing libraries it really doesn't take much effort to get things going.

Expense till now hasn't been bad either, I'm using a $2 arduino pro mini (ebay), $1.50 temp sensor, $17 for a 20x4 serial LCD display. I've got several other 'accessories' for this project but haven't gotten around to including them yet, as y'all mentioned free time is the hardest part to come by.

Do you have a thread for your build?

 

[thekraken]

Nope, sorry I haven't put a build thread together. Honestly, at this point it's so simple it's not worthy thread material, I'm still on the breadboard! Maybe as I progress I'll start to do a write up.

 

[muhteeus]

Check out ClaudiusB, BigBlock, trimixdiver1, Plc-Guy, kladue etc. You can even peep my post history .

Those are all GREAT examples of automated breweries!

 

[VulgarCelt]

Check out ClaudiusB, BigBlock, trimixdiver1, Plc-Guy, kladue etc. You can even peep my post history .

Those are all GREAT examples of automated breweries!

Thank you. I am actually looking forward to building the rig as much as making great beer on it.

 

[muhteeus]

Thank you. I am actually looking forward to building the rig as much as making great beer on it.

Agreed. I have had a blast designing mine and the build process continues to entertain.:rockin: