E-HLT with parts on hand help sought

[ben_j8mmin]

I have a Love Tss2 and a SSR with heat sink. Also a couple of distribution bars
I’d like to make an E-HLT for 10 gallon batches.
My garage already has a large air compressor that runs on 240. I’m thinking I could put a plug on it and then unplug it to plug my HLT in so they can’t run at the same time?
Obviously I need the element, but how big can I go?
Does my Love replace a PID ? I know its not as “smart” but will it do the job?

 

[brewjunky]

you want a pid with a ssr and a hotwater tank element. watts divided by volts give you amps so you will have to figure the size of the ssr. Id go 40 amps and use a 5500 watt element if you can find one. I couldnt so I used a 4500 watt.

5500 div 220= 25 amps you'd be good with 40amp ssr.

 

[ben_j8mmin]

I believe I have Both a 30 and a 50 amp ssr,
You have me purchasing an Pid? Or can my Love function as PID?
I understand a Pid uses complicated math to turn the element on for fractions of a second. My Love (temp swich?) wont do that, but can It be used like the pol does w/ the Johnson ?

 

[BrewBeemer]

If you use a SSRD instead of a SSR on your 240 volt supplied power to the element you will have both legs opened instead of only one at the element when not energized as a SSR will still have one leg hot back fed thru the element by the other hot leg all the time. Just thinking safety here.

 

[HomebrewJeff]

I believe I have Both a 30 and a 50 amp ssr,
You have me purchasing an Pid? Or can my Love function as PID?
I understand a Pid uses complicated math to turn the element on for fractions of a second. My Love (temp swich?) wont do that, but can It be used like the pol does w/ the Johnson ?

It looks like your controller is only an on/off switch. Basically as you approach your desired set temp, the controller is going to keep the element on 100% of the time until it hits the setpoint. With a PID, as it approaches the setpoint, as you mentioned it will begin to rapidly cycle the element on / off.

If you were to graph it out, with an on/off controller you would see higher peaks and valleys around the setpoint, with a pid it will help smooth these out.

That being said, yes you can use your controller instead of a pid, you'll just need to monitor the temps alittle closer so you don't overshoot.

 

[The Pol]

If this is just an E-HLT, IMHO you dont need a "smart" controller. This could be a simple on/off controller, if it is JUST an E-HLT. I mean, even on my E-HERMS I have a simple on/off controller on my E-HLT, because there is so much thermal mass in the HLT, it doesnt have to be smart.


As for the 2 hot legs going to the element, and the SSR only cutting one leg, many people install a switch between the distribution block and the hot legs going to the SSR and the element itself. THIS way, even if your temp controller is commanding something, you have the option to shut off the element regardless of the temp. controller output. Think of it as an immediate kill switch. If you simply use an SSRD, you are still relying soely on the temp. controller to shut down the element. Switches are nice...

 

[ben_j8mmin]

I have on hand a normal 15A 120v light switch will that work?

 

[conpewter]

for a 5500W 220 element you'll want a switch rated for 30 amps and 220 double throw double pole (DPDT)

 

[ben_j8mmin]

There is an electrical box in the garage w/ a single breaker switch in it. It functions right now as the switch for the compressor. I'd like to wire it to a outlet. Can I just use it to switch the whole outlet?

 

[ben_j8mmin]

So I need to buy at least:
Plug to add to compressor
Plug to add to HLT
Outlet to come from breaker
Wire to run between HLT and outlet
Wire to run from breaker to outlet
Element for HLT

 

[BrewBeemer]

for a 5500W 220 element you'll want a switch rated for 30 amps and 220 double throw double pole (DPDT)

Best under a 5.5KW element load is to go larger and use 40 amp SSR's or a SSRD for switching your element.

 

[ben_j8mmin]

Is their a suggested resource where I can learn some of these acronyms ?

 

[The Pol]

Is their a suggested resource where I can learn some of these acronyms ?

HBT...

There are a bazillion threads and posts on how to build electric rigs here.

 

[ben_j8mmin]

Thanks Poll. I've been reading many of those threads, in fact pretty much all I now understand on the subject can be traced back to HBT somehow.
I also enjoyed your you tube vids
I was hoping for a lesson in electricity from a source like this old house or something, Just so I can ask better questions to the brewers here.
I think my greatest obstacle right now is probably that I dont understand how my Love temp switch works or what it can do.

Right now I've got it on an electrical cord to turn my serving freezer on and off.
How would I use it to turn an element on and off?
I can see I'll need to switch the temp prob around, no problem. But how does power go through the relay?

 

[The Pol]

I am not familiar with the Love controller, or how many amps it can switch, I have a PID/SSR combo... Sorry

 

[ben_j8mmin]

How about the GFCI ? am I best to do that at the place the compressor is currently switched at? Is that location called a sub pannell? It is a 20A breaker by itself out in the garage.

 

[BrewBeemer]

How about the GFCI ? am I best to do that at the place the compressor is currently switched at? Is that location called a sub pannell? It is a 20A breaker by itself out in the garage.

Your compressor's breaker is not a switch, using a breaker as a switch in time will weaken the breaker making it trip as a lower rating that it is designed at unless you have a breaker rated for being used as a switch. Commercial buildings especially stores i've run across these breakers but not that offten besides the added cost of them isn't what you would be willing to pay.


Most likely off the main service panel is a 50 or 60 amp or somewhere in that size feeding the sub panel in your garage. There is another option is to change out that breaker for a GFI breaker then that dedicacted 230 volt receptacle will be GFI protected no matter what you plug into it. This makes for a cleaner installation for your brewery unless you go to a different location to brew then you should add a GFI in the feed to your brewery.
Add a two pole "T" rated switch at ay brewery control panel for the main feed control. "T" rated is for motors and resistive loads like lighting that take a initial high inrush current like a electric motor starting.

 

[ben_j8mmin]

The breaker I'm referring to (weeel maybe breaker isn't the correct term?) is not on the compressor itself. It is a metal box on the wall w/ a breaker like the ones in the main panel in the house only alone in a metal case in the garage.

Either way, sounds like your saying A. stop using it as a switch and B that is the place to put the gfci.... right?

 

[BrewBeemer]

That's correct as breakers are not ment to used as switches unless rated as.
Sure, they will work for a while and prove me wrong for a while but each time used as a switch they become weaker and will start to trip below their rated amperage capacity over time.
Get a magnetic starter or lighting control contactor with NC / NO contacts. Check into Hot Tubs on their remote GFI's and add one at your brewery's control panel. There are many ways to wire this up. Contacts NC (normally closed when the coil is deenergized), NO (contacts are closed when the coil is energized) mounted inside a metal box near your sub panel. Out of this box have the feeds to the compressor's receptacle box a 4 11/16" square x 2 1/8" deep as well the other receptacle for your brewing rig mounted near the garage door area.
This way you will have power to one piece of equipment at a time by choice just by flipping a toggle switch mounted on the contactor box, I would add a control light to know that the brewery recept is energized at a glance vs the compressor. I would have the coil energized for brewing as that will be energized a shorter time vs the compressor feed having the coil energized all the time, a waste of energy holding the coil. This will make it easy instead of changing plugs all the time having seperate receptacles plus allowing the brewing receptacle to be mounted remotely near the garage door for better ventilation plus allowing a shorter feed cord needed from the brewing rig vs a long cord running across the floor to the compressor's recept at the back of the garage in a corner out of the way. Price out SOO cord you'll see real quickly why. It's a wash money wise wiring for the brewing receptacle vs the extra SOO cord to the compressor's receptacle location besides not tripping over a big cord. This can also be a plus for your compressor tank drain thru the wall to the outside. JMO's if I had to brew in the garage. No way for me as the patio is my brewing location in the open air.

 

[ben_j8mmin]

Thanks BrewBeemer.
so your sugested list would be:
a magnetic starter or lighting control contactor
remote GFI's
compressor's receptacle box a 4 11/16" square x 2 1/8" deep
the other receptacle for your brewing rig
a control light
SOO cord

Right??

 

[BrewBeemer]

Sorry for the late reply big legal matters at my end going on.

That is what I would use for a power system for your compressor and brew rig receptacles. I would go for a magnetic starter as lighting contactors will not have NO / NC for each hot just NO. My mistake adding that to the materials list, please forget about it.
Instead of fighting a four square 1 1/2" deep box go for the bigger 4 11/16" by 2 1/8" deep for more room inside besides deep enough for the receptacle to fit without bottoming out before the raised metal cover that holds the receptical from contacting the box.
Some of the magnetic starters you can switch the contacts and springs to reverse their function operation, NO becomes NC the opposite.
A hot tub GFI in your control box on your brewery so you can tap off for 120 volt ahead of the 230 volt GFI with 120 volt GFI's for your pumps and brewing controller. GFI panel / sub panel breakers are not cheap.

 

[BrewBeemer]

Sorry for the late reply big legal matters at my end going on.

That is what I would use for a power system for your compressor and brew rig receptacles. I would go for a magnetic starter as lighting contactors will not have NO / NC for each hot just NO. My mistake adding that to the materials list, please forget about it.
Instead of fighting a four square 1 1/2" deep box go for the bigger 4 11/16" by 2 /18" deep for more room inside besides deep enough for the receptacle to fit without bottoming out before the raised metal cover that holds the recepticale contacts the box.
Some of the magnetic starters you can switch the contacts and springs to reverse their function operation, NO becomes NC the opposite.
A hot tub GFI in your control box on your brewery so you can tap off for 120 volt ahead of the 230 volt GFI with 120 volt GFI's for your pumps and brewing controller. GFI panel / sub panel breakers are not cheap save your money and use a hot tub GFI. Use CGB cord grips not two screw romex connectors on your boxes especially if your using a waterproof controller box on the brewering rig.

 

[ben_j8mmin]

Is a hot tub GFI a home depot/ Menards Item ? Any suggested source for one of these?

 

[CodeRage]

Yes, Home Depot and Lowes have them. We do not have Menards around here but sounds like they would as well. Also any place that sells spas/hot tubs will as well.

 

[ben_j8mmin]

Product Information Error Page


Is this it? Wow this is getting expensive fast !

 

[BrewBeemer]

For your smaller 120 volt pump and other controls if your looking for GFI protection (Dont't Laugh) look into the Salvation Army. I was there yesterday and ran across 7 "Conair" hair dryers of 1,875 watts each and at the plug were the GFI trip / test unit is located. These were available for $5 each well below a GFI breakers price. I find this a cheap source of 15 plus amp GFI's for your 120 volt systems items needing protectection. Just a heads up to look outside the box. CJ.......