Dry hop killed the Voss Kveik

[brewswithshoes]

Sounds like an 80s song....

But seriously, I brewed an IPA and used Voss Kveik on it (first time trying it in an IPA)

Plan was to double dry hop. First with about 10pts to go and second when ferm was done and leave for 4 more days before kegging.

OG of wort - 1.062
30 hrs in Kveik had it down to 1.023
so I added first dry hop (1 oz each of citrate, mosaic, Galaxy) as prediction was this would finish at 1.015.

Since that addition the yeast seem to have stopped completely. (watching the gravity thru a Tilt). It's even shown it hovering back up at 1.024-1.025. (it's now been 24 hrs since adding first dry hop)

Did I really kill/stop the yeast with the first dry hop ????

Recipe was basic: pils, 2 row, flaked oats. Mashed at 155-156. Initial fermentation temp was 87 constant until dry hop add. I've since warmed it up to about 92, but Tilt doesn't seem to be registering any gravity drops. It shows the temp increase so I know it's working/reading.

I thought Kveik was indestructible.

Any ideas ????

 

[Hoppy2bmerry]

Perhaps it is done.

 

[RPh_Guy]

Use an actual hydrometer.

 

[brewswithshoes]

.

 

[brewswithshoes]

Perhaps it is done.

Good golly, I hope not.

Will check in the morning with hydro

 

[Smellyglove]

Use a hydrometer. Tilt is almost the same as wetting you finger and guessing sometimes. It's a "fun" gadget.

 

[Birdgunner]

I have gone from grain to glass in 96 hours with the Omega's, esp. at higher temps, the first 24 hours is usally like a rocket then it drops fast. My guess is its done its job.

 

[Yooper]

I wonder if the hops or something are clinging to the side of the Tilt. I'd check with a hydrometer just for that reason.

(BTW, it was so nice meeting you!)

 

[brewswithshoes]

confirmed with hydrometer sample that this is at 1.024 which means this is only at 60% attenuation. Still doesn't seem right to me.

This is also the first time i "free ranged" the pellet dry hops, so the sample pulled was incredibly murky. I let it chill in the fridge for an hour or so hoping to drop out some particulates, but not much change. Can the hops in suspension be artificially inflating the gravity readings?

Keep temp up and let it ride more?
Add more yeast?
Crash and take another sample?

I'm stumped, as to what to do next. I don't like the idea of kegging up a FG 1.024 beer.

 

[Dland]

I agree 1.024 is too high to keg. I'd add more yeast and maybe warm it up a little. I've stopped ferments by mistake by getting them too cold, and that is what I have done with success.

Not a kviek or dry hop expert, but I wonder if that amount of hops all at once could have added some oils or dropped the pH in a way the yeast did not like. How big is the batch?

 

[HopsAreGood]

I’ve dry hopped with 9 ounces in primary (4.5 near fg, 4.5 at fg) also with Voss. No issues whatsoever. I know this doesn’t really help you, but I doubt the dry hopping had anything to do with the yeast stopping.
Just my 2 cents.

Also mashing at 155-156 is towards the higher end. Is it possible you may have been even a little higher than that?

 

[brewswithshoes]

I agree 1.024 is too high to keg. I'd add more yeast and maybe warm it up a little. I've stopped ferments by mistake by getting them too cold, and that is what I have done with success.

Not a kviek or dry hop expert, but I wonder if that amount of hops all at once could have added some oils or dropped the pH in a way the yeast did not like. How big is the batch?

I got about 6G into the fermenter. pH was at the low end of ranges throughout the mash. 5.1 i think in the last reading i did. Also, didn't mention before but i did stress yeast by only pitching about 25-30ml of Voss. Not much lag time in it taking off though, so something definitely happened when the dry hops were added.

Probably will work up a small starter with some more kveik and get it going before pitching it in.

 

[wbyrd01]

I just used Voss for the first time this past weekend. Just a simple Pale Ale. OG 1.048. I pitched half the packet of yeast at 92f and set my ferm chamber at 85f. 24 hours later it was at 1.024 and I added 2oz of Huell Melon hops. 24 hours after that it was down to 1.010.

I don't know that I would blame the hops but it is very coincidental that your gravity readings haven't changed after you dry hopped. It very well could be that you under pitched. I would definitely try adding that small starter and hope for the best.

 

[ProblemChild]

higher mash temp - that may account for some of it....

Anyone know if Voss has problems breaking down particular dextrines?

 

[RPh_Guy]

I agree with the above posters; I'd be pondering what might have gone awry with the mash, or if that was ok then I suspect the underpitch caused the yeast to run out of nutrients. That's one issue that's been reported with these strains. Did you add any nutrient?

Temp seems fine to me. I ferment it at 95°F, but 92 shouldn't be an issue.
Hops wouldn't cause any issue with stalling. On the contrary, dry hops tend to increase attenuation because of the enzymes in the hops.

Pitch more Voss.

I wonder if that amount of hops all at once could have added some oils or dropped the pH in a way the yeast did not like.

Hops increase pH.

 

[Hoppy2bmerry]

I haven’t used this yeast yet, but I am all ready to. It seems people are keeping temps very warm and getting fast results. So maybe raise the temp and rouse the yeast.

 

[HopsAreGood]

On the contrary, dry hops tend to increase attenuation because of the enzymes in the hops.

I ferment in a clear fermenter. When I dry hop at final gravity, I can literally see additional fermentation occur. I can’t really say how much, but I can see the yeast get back to work for a little while before coming to a complete stop again. This also where you get into the whole issue of hop creep...but there are plenty of other threads about that.

Best bet is to just pitch some more yeast.

 

[bracconiere]

I ferment in a clear fermenter. When I dry hop at final gravity, I can literally see additional fermentation occur. I can’t really say how much, but I can see the yeast get back to work for a little while before coming to a complete stop again. This also where you get into the whole issue of hop creep...but there are plenty of other threads about that.

Best bet is to just pitch some more yeast.

could just be particles giving dissolved co2 nucleation(?) sites.....or whatever the technical term for dissolved gasses getting somewhere to join up....

 

[RPh_Guy]

could just be particles giving dissolved co2 nucleation(?) sites.....or whatever the technical term for dissolved gasses getting somewhere to join up....

That's possible, but "hop creep" is also a common and measurable phenomenon.

 

[HopsAreGood]

could just be particles giving dissolved co2 nucleation(?) sites.....or whatever the technical term for dissolved gasses getting somewhere to join up....

My best GUESS would be a combination of this and a small amount of additional fermentation..or hop creep.

 

[bracconiere]

That's possible, but "hop creep" is also a common and measurable phenomenon.

wouldn't surprise me, i get enzyme creep when i add gluco too....it just happens slowly, i've always assumed when i dump a bunch of stuff in the fermenter, and it fizzs, it was co2, like opening a shaken coke bottle....

 

[Dgallo]

I’ve read two post this week that kviek has higher nutritional demands than most yeast. I haven’t experienced this personally but some in the threads were saying it needs nutrient in og less that 1.065

 

[HopsAreGood]

I’ve read two post this week that kviek has higher nutritional demands than most yeast. I haven’t experienced this personally but some in the threads were saying it needs nutrient in og less that 1.065

I’ve brewed with both Hornindal and Voss. 5 times with Hornindal and now twice with Voss. Varying ogs from 1.055 to 1.075. Every time I’ve used 1 tsp of wyeast yeast nutrient which is twice the recommended amount. I’ve been down to 1.010 pretty much every time except for my current batch which is at 1.014 because I used half a pound of lactose. Chances are I prob didn’t really need that much nutrient but it’s such a simple and cheap thing to do, I can’t see a reason not too. Especially when using kveiks.

 

[brewswithshoes]

Quick update: did a quick canned wort starter yesterday morning, and left it on the stir plate for about 12 hrs. didn't have time to decant last night so threw in about 400ml of the 1L starter last night about 10PM. Seems to have resumed a little getting down to 1.020 by 10AM this morning. Keeping it around 92 & hopefully can squeeze a few more points out of it.

Thanks for all the input.

 

[brewswithshoes]

Another update: After adding more yeast, this seems to have completed at 1.016 - 1.017 (please chime in on pic as i never understand how read the right line)

 

[Miraculix]

confirmed with hydrometer sample that this is at 1.024 which means this is only at 60% attenuation. Still doesn't seem right to me.

This is also the first time i "free ranged" the pellet dry hops, so the sample pulled was incredibly murky. I let it chill in the fridge for an hour or so hoping to drop out some particulates, but not much change. Can the hops in suspension be artificially inflating the gravity readings?

Keep temp up and let it ride more?
Add more yeast?
Crash and take another sample?

I'm stumped, as to what to do next. I don't like the idea of kegging up a FG 1.024 beer.

I've had samples of wort with lots of suspended hotbreak inside which had a drastically different hydrometer reading after I let all the suspended stuff settle out. I just don't remember if the actual gravity was higher or lower.... I just remember being very surprised because the error went into the opposite direction I would have expected.

 

[Robert65]

I've had samples of wort with lots of suspended hotbreak inside which had a drastically different hydrometer reading after I let all the suspended stuff settle out. I just don't remember if the actual gravity was higher or lower.... I just remember being very surprised because the error went into the opposite direction I would have expected.

Suspended particles will have essentially the same effect as rising bubbles. As they are buoyant, they will in turn buoy the hydrometer up in the jar, leading to a higher reading than actual gravity. Like little life preservers. I did some experiments on this once. IIRC I found that just suspended yeast, at the typical concentration during fermentation, will add easily 1.004 sg. One reason I like using a filtered sample on a digital refractometer.

 

[Kenmoron]

Another update: After adding more yeast, this seems to have completed at 1.016 - 1.017 (please chime in on pic as i never understand how read the right line)
View attachment 640635

Looks like you are actually at about 1.014-1.015 (assuming you are at calibration temperature, otherwise you need to use a calculator to adjust this based on the actual beer temp). The hydrometer measurement should be read from the top of the meniscus.

 

[Gnomebrewer]

Looks like you are actually at about 1.014-1.015 (assuming you are at calibration temperature, otherwise you need to use a calculator to adjust this based on the actual beer temp). The hydrometer measurement should be read from the top of the meniscus.

No, generally they're read from the bottom of the meniscus, but I think some might be calibrated to be read from the top (mine are read from the bottom of the meniscus, as per most lab measuring equipment). That looks like 1.017 to me.

 

[Kenmoron]

No, generally they're read from the bottom of the meniscus, but I think some might be calibrated to be read from the top (mine are read from the bottom of the meniscus, as per most lab measuring equipment). That looks like 1.017 to me.

Haha, you're totally right. It looks like I have been reading it wrong all this time! At least my ABV calculations are all accurate since I make the same mistake for both SG and FG every time.

 

[brewswithshoes]

Final update on this beer: Kegged and been on gas for 3 days. ABV came in at about 6.3% and this is probably one of my top 3 beers I've ever made. Kveik for the win !!

Probably doesn't hurt that this was made with an 11 oz combo of Citra, Mosaic & Galaxy too.

I think I'm gonna stay with the kveiks in my IPAs for awhile. So much easier as a Florida brewer.

 

[BreweyMcHops]

Ok , basically Kveik is like full contact martial arts prior to UFC 1. I see a lot of " experts" who are obviously making it up because once you get your hands dirty , the reality is SO different to the stories you heard.

For example, even the head guys themselves at Lalbrew who make/ sell Voss are telling people the absolute min pitch rate is 11G per 23 L.

If that fundamental piece of info is wrong, why would you believe any of the other " kung fu stories"

I read something about a guy dry hopping for TWO WEEKS! Right.