Drom John's Innis & Gunn Original

[DromJohn]

Partial Mash

Batch size: 5..25 gallons

5 lb Golden Promise (Simpsons)
0.6 lb Crystal 40L, organic
0.4 lb flaked wheat

45 minute steep 155F

6 lbs Light LME

60 minute boil

0.5 oz Styrian Aurora (60 min)
0.5 oz Styrian Aurora (15 min)
0.5 oz Styrian Aurora ( 5 min)

White Labs Edinburgh Scottish Ale WLP028

3.00 oz Oak chips medium toast
140 ml Wild Turkey 101

2 weeks primary

3 weeks bottle conditioned

First taste: 25 August 2013

I got my ideas about proportions from others on the web, but none seemed to be paying attention to the Innis & Gunn website. So I came up with this version. I have been an AHS customer, but they didn't have Styrian Aurora. Bell's had Styrian Aurora but not Golden Promise. I discovered Brew Brothers and they had all the ingredients. They also have lots of organic malts, though only the Crystal 40L for this recipe.

 

[DromJohn]

A bit dark, a bit sweet, but otherwise very similar.

 

[drewbop]

I'm going to try and clone the Innis and Gunn this weekend. Thanks for the heads up about checking the I&G website, based on that I'm going to ignore the other clone recipes around the internet and try this one. Is there anything you would suggest changing based on your first attempt?

 

[DromJohn]

If for cloning, I'd use light toasted oak, and a milder whiskey, like Maker's Mark.
For drinking, I've been told by my home-brew club, Ocmulgee Grain Trust, and SWMBO, to keep as is. We all conclude this is my best brew. And others say it is better than I&G Orginal.
If all grain, I'd make the LME into Golden Promise.

 

[DromJohn]

Above was SWMBO's favorite of my brews. I was ordered to rebrew. So this is Innis & Gunn Original II.

Partial Mash

Batch size: 5..25 gallons

5 lb Golden Promise (Simpsons)
0.6 lb Crystal 20L, organic
0.4 lb flaked wheat

45 minute steep 155F

6 lbs Light LME (Northern Brewer Organic Light Malt Syrup)

60 minute boil

0.5 oz Styrian Aurora (60 min)
0.5 oz Styrian Aurora (15 min)
0.5 oz Styrian Aurora ( 5 min)

White Labs Edinburgh Scottish Ale WLP028

4.00 oz Oak chips American light toast
140 ml Wild Turkey 101

2 weeks primary

3 weeks bottle conditioned

First taste: 31 May 2014

SWMBO told me to do it exactly as before, and that was my intent even though I wanted to tweak. I got my tweaks indirectly when changing OHBS.
I was planning to reorder "exactly as before" from Brew Brothers. But BB didn't have Styrian Aurora.
This time Northern Brewer had Styrian Aurora. Going with NB changed the LME to NB's Mallard Organic Light Malt Syrup. And while BB had organic 40L, NB did not. SWMBO wants organic but preferred 40L, I wanted to lighten the recipe a bit. We compromised on the organic 20L. SWMBO wanted medium toasted chips. I wanted light toasted chips. NB had medium cubes. Chips beat out medium.

 

[DromJohn]

Clone II is a better (very close) clone. Clone I was a better beer.

 

[brewnoob007]

Thinking of doing this as my next brew just a quick question, the whiskey and oak chips go right in the primary not secondary?

 

[DromJohn]

I usually don't secondary, and didn't for these two.
Both times, I soaked the chips in a Pyrex pan Thursday night and dumped the contents in the empty fermenting bucket Saturday before adding the cooled wort.

 

[Shenanigans]

subscribed

 

[Shenanigans]

I usually don't secondary, and didn't for these two.
Both times, I soaked the chips in a Pyrex pan Thursday night and dumped the contents in the empty fermenting bucket Saturday before adding the cooled wort.

So the soaked chips are in there during the whole fermentation?

Think I'll give this go as I have almost all the ingredients including 250g of Aurora that I want to start using.
The only difference is that I have the WLP011 European ale yeast but it's supposed to be similar the WLP028.

For the bourbon I will probably use Jim Beam or Jack Daniels

 

[DromJohn]

So the soaked chips are in there during the whole fermentation?

Yes, two weeks.

May the brew gods be with you.

Post how yours turns out.

 

[Shenanigans]

Yes, two weeks.

May the brew gods be with you.

Post how yours turns out.

Thanks for the quick reply.
I have medium toasted chips so I might throw them in a few days later.

 

[Bottoms_Up]

DromJohn,

1. What was your intended Original and Final Gravities?
2. What was your intended IBU?
3. Would you do anything different if you were to brew it again?

 

[DromJohn]

DromJohn,

1. What was your intended Original and Final Gravities?
2. What was your intended IBU?
3. Would you do anything different if you were to brew it again?

Bad answer for 1. I have never measured gravity, though I do pay attention for intended ABV when working on recipes. The Original was developed on the defunct Brewmaster's Warehouse Brewbuilder. OG before the fermenter should be around 1.068 with 75% efficiency, but I don't know what the bourbon does to the gravity.

IBU should be around 21.

Having also done the Innis & Gunn Rum Aged and the Bourbon Stout for SWMBO, I suspect that I will be doing the Original again, though the Original has not been penciled in. I wouldn't do anything different. She would have me do version 1 again. Version 2 is a better clone.

 

[Bottoms_Up]

Bad answer for 1. I have never measured gravity, though I do pay attention for intended ABV when working on recipes. The Original was developed on the defunct Brewmaster's Warehouse Brewbuilder. OG before the fermenter should be around 1.068 with 75% efficiency, but I don't know what the bourbon does to the gravity.

IBU should be around 21.

Having also done the Innis & Gunn Rum Aged and the Bourbon Stout for SWMBO, I suspect that I will be doing the Original again, though the Original has not been penciled in. I wouldn't do anything different. She would have me do version 1 again. Version 2 is a better clone.

Thanks DromJohn. An OG of 1.068 seems reasonable, although I have seen it as high as 1.075 on some clone recipes (although in those cases the FG was quite high, leading to the same alcohol abv but a sweeter residual taste).

IBU also seems about right, although I have seen it as low as 18 in some clone recipes. Based on taste, it's hard to believe it would be as low as 18 IBU.

I look forward to trying your recipe on January 1. However, I might try adding the oak at a later stage when it is kegged rather than during fermentation. Will medium American oak chips work, or should they be light oak?

 

[DromJohn]

Will medium American oak chips work, or should they be light oak?

We prefer the medium, but light would make a better clone. Lighter oak gives more vanilla.

 

[Bottoms_Up]

We prefer the medium, but light would make a better clone. Lighter oak gives more vanilla.

For some reason, the local brew supply places only seem to carry medium roasted chips or cubes, so the lighter oak is not an option. Perhaps I can use the medium roasted oak along with a vanilla stick.

 

[DromJohn]

I recommend not using vanilla the first time. Taste what the medium roasted chips do first.

 

[Bottoms_Up]

I recommend not using vanilla the first time. Taste what the medium roasted chips do first.

Thanks - I'll try it on its own first. Have you ever considered boiling down some of the first runnings and carmelizing it for later addition?

 

[DromJohn]

Have you ever considered boiling down some of the first runnings and carmelizing it for later addition?

While I have decocted for Scaldis Noel and for another Scottish ale, Terrapin Reunion '10, I&G Original is the other end of the spectrum. In version two, I went from 40L to 20L for a better clone.

 

[Izzie1701]

Bad answer for 1. I have never measured gravity, though I do pay attention for intended ABV when working on recipes. The Original was developed on the defunct Brewmaster's Warehouse Brewbuilder. OG before the fermenter should be around 1.068 with 75% efficiency, but I don't know what the bourbon does to the gravity.



IBU should be around 21.



Having also done the Innis & Gunn Rum Aged and the Bourbon Stout for SWMBO, I suspect that I will be doing the Original again, though the Original has not been penciled in. I wouldn't do anything different. She would have me do version 1 again. Version 2 is a better clone.

Did you use the same recipe for the run aged just using run rather then whiskey. Been wanting to try and clone there rum aged beer for awhile and just haven't gotten to it. This thread may have made it my next attempt.

 

[DromJohn]

Did you use the same recipe for the run aged just using run rather then whiskey. Been wanting to try and clone there rum aged beer for awhile and just haven't gotten to it. This thread may have made it my next attempt.

No, Rum Aged is a Wee Heavy. See:
Drom John Innis & Gunn Rum Aged

 

[Bottoms_Up]

Just tried the second recipe yesterday and it's bubbling furiously today. Everything worked out well except the Specific Gravity. I was aiming for 1.068, but ended up with 1.061. Not sure why - perhaps my efficiency wasn't as high as usual.

 

[Shenanigans]

So the soaked chips are in there during the whole fermentation?

Think I'll give this go as I have almost all the ingredients including 250g of Aurora that I want to start using.
The only difference is that I have the WLP011 European ale yeast but it's supposed to be similar the WLP028.

For the bourbon I will probably use Jim Beam or Jack Daniels

Still haven't brewed this.

Again I will do all-grain with Maris Otter and WLP011 instead of Golden Promise and WLP028.

What was your OG and FG so I can adjust it for my system?
Oh and your mash temperature?

The WLP011 has lower attenuation than WLP028 so I will probably mash 1 or 2 degree lower and for 90 instead of 60 mins.
If the FG is still a bit high then I'll add some brown sugar to dry it out a little.

Thanks!

 

[DromJohn]

Still haven't brewed this.
What was your OG and FG so I can adjust it for my system?
Oh and your mash temperature?

OG was calculated, not measured at 1.068 without the bourbon.
I mashed at 155F.

 

[Shenanigans]

OG was calculated, not measured at 1.068 without the bourbon.
I mashed at 155F.

Thanks for the quick reply again.
Sorry I missed a few posts earlier; someone else did indeed ask my first question already :smack:

I'm from Ireland and my friends and I live all over Europe.
We meet each other a few times in a year in different countries for a men's weekend out. For the next meeting in April I plan on having a batch of this ready.
Will compliment our whiskey/whisky tasting evening perfectly :

 

[Shenanigans]

Thanks for the quick reply again.
Sorry I missed a few posts earlier; someone else did indeed ask my first question already :smack:

I'm from Ireland and my friends and I live all over Europe.
We meet each other a few times in a year in different countries for a men's weekend out. For the next meeting in April I plan on having a batch of this ready.
Will compliment our whiskey/whisky tasting evening perfectly :

One more question.
When does this beer hit it's peak?
I plan brewing it on 23-Jan and my meeting is on 08-April so it will be in bottles about two months at that stage. Is that enough or is it ready within 3 or 4 weeks after bottling?

Thanks

 

[DromJohn]

One more question.
When does this beer hit it's peak?
I plan brewing it on 23-Jan and my meeting is on 08-April so it will be in bottles about two months at that stage. Is that enough or is it ready within 3 or 4 weeks after bottling?

Thanks

This plateaus for a long stretch, probably because of the bourbon. It has had a solid run from first taste three weeks after bottling till maybe fourteen weeks after first taste. (None have survived being consumed longer.)

 

[Bottoms_Up]

Just to clarify, you add 3 oz medium toasted oak chips in 140 ml Wild Turkey in a Pyrex dish, let it sit at room temperature for 2 days, then add the entire contents (chips + bourbon) to the empty fermentation bucket before adding the wort, then let it sit in the fermentation pail for two weeks before taking out the oak?

Do you pre-soak the chips to get rid of the excess tannin? If not, do you notice any tannin taste in the final product? Do you sanitize the oak first, e.g. by steaming?

 

[DromJohn]

Just to clarify, you add 3 oz medium toasted oak chips in 140 ml Wild Turkey in a Pyrex dish, let it sit at room temperature for 2 days, then add the entire contents (chips + bourbon) to the empty fermentation bucket before adding the wort, then let it sit in the fermentation pail for two weeks before taking out the oak?

Do you pre-soak the chips to get rid of the excess tannin? If not, do you notice any tannin taste in the final product? Do you sanitize the oak first, e.g. by steaming?

3 or 4 ounces of chips depending on package size.
I've notice no tannin taste. Toasting probably took enough care of the oak tannins.
Bourbon sanitizes sufficiently.

 

[Bottoms_Up]

3 or 4 ounces of chips depending on package size.
I've notice no tannin taste. Toasting probably took enough care of the oak tannins.
Bourbon sanitizes sufficiently.

Thanks. I've seen a lot of discussion about first removing a lot of the tannins in the oak before using it by pre-soaking, boiling, not using the liquor (just the chips), etc., and was just wondering what your position on this was. It's good to know that it doesn't really impart that much of the tannin flavor.

 

[RoboRob1]

A bit dark, a bit sweet, but otherwise very similar.

Question I am doing this same recipe but soaking the oak in a dark rum, how long do I need to soak the rum with the oak? Also at what point do I add the oak to the fermentation l?

 

[DromJohn]

Question I am doing this same recipe but soaking the oak in a dark rum, how long do I need to soak the rum with the oak? Also at what point do I add the oak to the fermentation l?

I soak for two days, then dump chips and liquor in the bottom of the primary bucket before adding wort.

 

[Bottoms_Up]

Well the beer had finished fermenting and aging and is just about ready to keg. I decided that I would add the bourbon-soaked oak chips to the keg rather than adding during fermentation. I soaked 100 grams (about 3 ounces) of oak chips in a half-liter (half-quart) Mason jar with 140 ml of Wild Turkey last night, which I will leave for 2 days before adding to the keg when I transfer the beer. I found that the level of bourbon only reached a little more than half-way up the level of chips, after some of it got soaked up. Is this what you experienced DromJohn? I know that some sources say to cover the level of oak chips with bourbon, but that would likely be too much.

 

[DromJohn]

I found that the level of bourbon only reached a little more than half-way up the level of chips, after some of it got soaked up. Is this what you experienced DromJohn? I know that some sources say to cover the level of oak chips with bourbon, but that would likely be too much.

In my case, the chips spread out evenly in a rectangle Pyrex dish and 140ml just covered.

 

[Bottoms_Up]

In my case, the chips spread out evenly in a rectangle Pyrex dish and 140ml just covered.

I would think that even if they were spread out, the bourbon would still cover the same amount. I just rotated and shook the jar a couple of times a day, and added it to my keg tonight. By this time, the oak had absorbed almost all of the bourbon. The level might have been about a quarter of the way up to the level of the oak chips. I'll leave it in the keg for 10 days at room temperature and then taste it each couple of days afterwards to see when to take out the chips.

 

[Shenanigans]

Still haven't brewed this.

Again I will do all-grain with Maris Otter and WLP011 instead of Golden Promise and WLP028.

What was your OG and FG so I can adjust it for my system?
Oh and your mash temperature?

The WLP011 has lower attenuation than WLP028 so I will probably mash 1 or 2 degree lower and for 90 instead of 60 mins.
If the FG is still a bit high then I'll add some brown sugar to dry it out a little.

Thanks!

So reporting back on my attempt.

I used Crystal/Cara 30L so in between your attempt 1 and 2.

Anyway I bottled it after 2 weeks going from 1.063 to 1.011, so the WLP011 had a higher attenuation than expected. I did mash at 2 degree lower than the OP though.
Its in the bottle 5 days now and tastes very promising; nice touch of oak and bourbon but not overpowering. It's a bit thin but the body should increase when it is fully carbed.

BTW I only ever had the Rum Aged version but not the original.
Does it have a medium to light body or have I totally over attenuated with an FG of 1.011?
If the OG from the first recipe was 1.067 and had an expected 6.6% Abv then it should have finished around 1.017.


I will report back in a week or two with the final results.

 

[Bottoms_Up]

I would think that even if they were spread out, the bourbon would still cover the same amount. I just rotated and shook the jar a couple of times a day, and added it to my keg tonight. By this time, the oak had absorbed almost all of the bourbon. The level might have been about a quarter of the way up to the level of the oak chips. I'll leave it in the keg for 10 days at room temperature and then taste it each couple of days afterwards to see when to take out the chips.

Well, even though I kept the oak chips in a hop strainer within the keg, when I took out the strainer, the keg was filled with oak powder sediment. I've sucked out some of this sediment several times by the hose attached to the keg, but there was so much that it filled quite a few glasses of beer. I decided to leave it for a couple of weeks longer and try sucking it out again. Hope there's not too much left as I'm losing a lot of beer. Maybe it would be better to use oak cubes next time, or add the oak during the secondary fermentation.

 

[Bottoms_Up]

Update - the oak debris finally got flushed out, and I gave it an initial taste test. It was delicious, although not as close to an Innis & Gunn as I would have expected. Lots of flavour, but not quite as oaked as it could have been. The amount of Bourbon was just right, though. Next time I'll use oak cubes and leave it on them for a few weeks. The other noticeable difference was the level of sweetness. It was considerably more sweet and caramel-like than the I & G. Irregardless, I like this much more than an I & G. It has a most distinctive and unique flavour.

I'm still not sure where the sweetness came from. I mashed at 154 F, and the F.G. was 1.014 (perhaps a little on the high side).

 

[DromJohn]

Version three went back to version one, but for the LME is organic and the oak was cubed. 40L & 1/2 oz hops were leftovers; rest of grain and yeast were from Barley & Vine before they closed; LME, 1 oz hops and oak were from Northern Brewer. First taste 15 April 2017.