Doubling Down: SS Brewtech Conical + FTSS + Glycol Power Pack

[PedroNeves]

It should work great. Just make sure you have enough btu's to handle all three running. With enough cooling capacity you should be able to cold crash.

Nice, i don't really now how many BTU's, but i will probably be running only 2 fermenter till January, so i think it should handle the job, if more power is needed i'll buy another unit in 3-4 months to handle more than 2 fermenters.

Do you know from the top of your head any formula to calculate BTU power?

 

[PedroNeves]

Nice, thanks for the input, allways good to have some approval before spending the money
i'll problay be using only 2 fermenters at a time till end of January, so i think it will handle the job.
Do you now any quick formula to know how many BTU i need/i have with this cooling machine?

*first answer wasn't showing, sorry for double posting

 

[Duda_Energy]

Going to convert everything to imperial instead of metric, since you asked in BTUs instead of kW.

I'm also going to use water for my heat capacity numbers, instead of beer. Partially because different brews will be *slightly* different, but mainly because the math is far easier, and its a close enough approximation.

1 BTU = energy to heat/cool 1 lbs of water by 1 F (not counting phase changes)

3x 2bbl = 186 gallons = 1551 lbs of ale
22C to 3C = 72 to 38f = deltaT of 34f
1551 x 34= 52,734 BTUs

So a 53k BTU/hr (15.5 kW) system could crash in 1 hour.
A 106k BTU/hr (31 kW) system could do it in 30 min.
A 9k BTU/hr (3 kW) system could do it in 6 hours.

Of course, these numbers are theoretical - they assume perfect heat transfer, and your fermenters having infinite insulation. In reality, you will need a little bit more than these numbers suggest (or more time).

 

[PedroNeves]

Going to convert everything to imperial instead of metric, since you asked in BTUs instead of kW.

I'm also going to use water for my heat capacity numbers, instead of beer. Partially because different brews will be *slightly* different, but mainly because the math is far easier, and its a close enough approximation.

1 BTU = energy to heat/cool 1 lbs of water by 1 F (not counting phase changes)

3x 2bbl = 186 gallons = 1551 lbs of ale
22C to 3C = 72 to 38f = deltaT of 34f
1551 x 34= 52,734 BTUs

So a 53k BTU/hr (15.5 kW) system could crash in 1 hour.
A 106k BTU/hr (31 kW) system could do it in 30 min.
A 9k BTU/hr (3 kW) system could do it in 6 hours.

Of course, these numbers are theoretical - they assume perfect heat transfer, and your fermenters having infinite insulation. In reality, you will need a little bit more than these numbers suggest (or more time).

Wow, thanks... The unit is rated at 1380 Watt, so maintaining at 18ºC won't be a problem, cold crashing thought... From the calculation, if i cold crash only 1 fermenter, i could do it in about 6h, but 2 our 3, would be kind of hard to do right?

Kind of thinking now, on getting 2 cooling units, use 1 to 1, since i'll be working with 2 fermenters for a while. That way i could cold crash and control fermentation temperature with no hassle i think.

 

[Dcpcooks]

1380 watts is 4700 btu/hr. You may want to look at the units manual. I've seen watts ratings drop as the temps fall. So you may see 1380 at 18c but only 500 watts at 2c.

That how my unit works. It's not really a big problem just a flat curve as you go lower in temps.

 

[PedroNeves]

Well only got this table from the manual.
it's been kind of hard to find good powerfull chillers under 1500€ in europe. (i found a cooler/heater for 1300€ish but is has less wattage than this one... (1.2kw cooling power and 2kw heating power - 5/8 hp)

 

[Dcpcooks]

Ss brewtech sells a unit in the states. It's 2300 btus per hour. They state that's enough to cool 3 bbl's of beer to Lager temps. So you should be close to holding Lager temps on two units at the same time.

I think you may need two units to handle 4 fermentors. I'd also assume your looking at about 12 hours to crash it down. I don't think that time line is bad.

Cheers

 

[PedroNeves]

Yes, i think this setup would be enough, for 2 - 200L fermentors, and cold crashing around 12h is fine.
Thanks for the feedback Dcpcooks, it really helped.

 

[limulus]

PedroNeves, you should have a pressure gauge in your loop. You also need a valve on the return side of the loop. You close that valve just enough so that when a solenoid valve opens the glycol solution takes the path of least resistance and will flow into the jacket. I learned that at a professional brewing course I took and I use a smaller version on my jacketed fermenter in my garage.

 

[limulus]

Here is what you need.

 

[limulus]

Here you can see my chiller and my entire loop and the leg that goes to and from the fermenter. My loop simply goes from the chiller reservoir through the pump and right back into the reservoir. You can see my partially closed valve and then the leg that goes to my fermenter. When the solenoid opens on my fermenter the glycol takes the path of least resistance and flows out that leg to the fermenter.

 

[PedroNeves]

thanks for the input limulus, but the way i thought of doing, i think i don't need a pressure gauge/reducer... I'm thinking of adding a larger reservoir that would be kept cold by a coil connected to the chiller, and either:
1 - immersion pumps onnected to the fermentors making 2 seperate loops, and pups controlled by STC-1000
or 2 - a closed loop like the layout i posted on page 36 of this therad, with a solenoid valve opening for eache fermentor

Don't think increasing pressure is necessary fo 2 vessel, from what i've been reeding, less pressure (as long as the liquid flows through the jackets, is better.

But i will keep your option in mind

 

[PedroNeves]

Also, i'm really thinking of getting two smaller chillers like the AS-110 and use 1 to 1... that way i could could crash only 1 vessel without messing with the temperatures of the other by having the gycol too cold, and i will avoid all the "plumbing" xD

 

[PenguinChillers]

Ss brewtech sells a unit in the states. It's 2300 btus per hour. They state that's enough to cool 3 bbl's of beer to Lager temps. So you should be close to holding Lager temps on two units at the same time.

I think you may need two units to handle 4 fermentors. I'd also assume your looking at about 12 hours to crash it down. I don't think that time line is bad.

Cheers

SS states 2300BTU/hr, but I'm not sure how they came up with that number. I believe it may be the spec on the compressor, or a theoretical output, but system design will have an affect on what the unit actually achieves. Based on our initial testing the SS chiller is around 1900BTU/hr.

Our testing method is pretty straight forward.
1. Fill the bath with 33% glycol as recommended
2. Insert a small/low wattage circulation pump in the bath to keep the fluid moving to yield the best possible heat transfer.
3. Set the bath to 28F, wait for it to reach 28F
4. Insert aquarium heater elements into the bath, keep adding heaters until the unit can no longer maintain 28F. We use heaters that do not have thermostats so as long as they are plugged in they are on. We also used various size heaters down to 25w to get just the right combination of wattages to just barely push the chiller past 28F.
5. Using a kill-a-watt meter measure the total wattage at the wall, because a 100w heater doesn't actually pull 100w
6. Multiply wattage by 3.41 to get BTU/hr

We still have more testing to do. Hopefully a side by side comparison video is to come in the near future.

 

[PedroNeves]

SS states 2300BTU/hr, but I'm not sure how they came up with that number. I believe it may be the spec on the compressor, or a theoretical output, but system design will have an affect on what the unit actually achieves. Based on our initial testing the SS chiller is around 1900BTU/hr.

Our testing method is pretty straight forward.
1. Fill the bath with 33% glycol as recommended
2. Insert a small/low wattage circulation pump in the bath to keep the fluid moving to yield the best possible heat transfer.
3. Set the bath to 28F, wait for it to reach 28F
4. Insert aquarium heater elements into the bath, keep adding heaters until the unit can no longer maintain 28F. We use heaters that do not have thermostats so as long as they are plugged in they are on. We also used various size heaters down to 25w to get just the right combination of wattages to just barely push the chiller past 28F.
5. Using a kill-a-watt meter measure the total wattage at the wall, because a 100w heater doesn't actually pull 100w
6. Multiply wattage by 3.41 to get BTU/hr

We still have more testing to do. Hopefully a side by side comparison video is to come in the near future.

Do you sell your chillers in Europe? That 1/2HP seem exacly what i need for 2x200L vesels.

 

[Dcpcooks]

Dupe

 

[Dcpcooks]

SS states 2300BTU/hr, but I'm not sure how they came up with that number. I believe it may be the spec on the compressor, or a theoretical output, but system design will have an affect on what the unit actually achieves. Based on our initial testing the SS chiller is around 1900BTU/hr.

Our testing method is pretty straight forward.
1. Fill the bath with 33% glycol as recommended
2. Insert a small/low wattage circulation pump in the bath to keep the fluid moving to yield the best possible heat transfer.
3. Set the bath to 28F, wait for it to reach 28F
4. Insert aquarium heater elements into the bath, keep adding heaters until the unit can no longer maintain 28F. We use heaters that do not have thermostats so as long as they are plugged in they are on. We also used various size heaters down to 25w to get just the right combination of wattages to just barely push the chiller past 28F.
5. Using a kill-a-watt meter measure the total wattage at the wall, because a 100w heater doesn't actually pull 100w
6. Multiply wattage by 3.41 to get BTU/hr

We still have more testing to do. Hopefully a side by side comparison video is to come in the near future.

I know a few guys running your chillers. They seem very happy with them. One of these days I'll upgrade. I'm using a heated chilled lab recirculating water bath from polyscience. 1300 watts cold side and 1500 heated. Kinda nice to just dial up the temps for saisons and down for lagers. I can only run one half bbl unit at the extremes but I can run two half bbl units at ale temps.

Good luck in the brewing market. I know many people are happy that your putting out new products in the market!

Cheers

 

[limulus]

thanks for the input limulus, but the way i thought of doing, i think i don't need a pressure gauge/reducer... I'm thinking of adding a larger reservoir that would be kept cold by a coil connected to the chiller, and either:
1 - immersion pumps onnected to the fermentors making 2 seperate loops, and pups controlled by STC-1000
or 2 - a closed loop like the layout i posted on page 36 of this therad, with a solenoid valve opening for eache fermentor

Don't think increasing pressure is necessary fo 2 vessel, from what i've been reeding, less pressure (as long as the liquid flows through the jackets, is better.

But i will keep your option in mind

You are correct. If you use a separate reservoir and immersion pumps, you will not need the valve in the loop. I think it would also be less stressful on your chiller.

 

[PedroNeves]

There's so many ways to do things that the more i think and research, the more i get unsure of what to do xD
Today it just came to me that maybe it would be nice to have a way of heating the vessels too, so maybe i'll be adding a double loop, and not use glycol, just water to have that possibility... seriously, i don't really know how to spend the money, the right way. lol don't want to mke a leap of faith on this

 

[PenguinChillers]

Do you sell your chillers in Europe? That 1/2HP seem exacly what i need for 2x200L vesels.

Unfortunately we do not sell directly overseas, shipping cost are going to approach the purchase price of the item. Then if anything happened along the way, or if there was a warranty issue we would be out a lot of money in shipping back and forth alone. We are a smaller family owned and operated company, the risk vs reward to too steep for us.

We have had people use freight forwarders to send to foreign countries. The freight forwarder is here in US, we basically sell/ship to them and they arrange to ship to you.

 

[iijakii]

Oooooh somethin shiny just showed up...

 

[MaltManMike]

> Oooooh somethin shiny just showed up...

Nice! You wouldn't happen to be able to post the liquid levels for the sample port, the thermowell port, and the bottom of the chilling coil, would you? I've been through many threads and haven't seen them yet for the ssbt unitank.

I did see a 5.5 gal minimum, but no reasoning. Thermowell? Negligible coil contact?

Thanks.

 

[iijakii]

> Oooooh somethin shiny just showed up...

Nice! You wouldn't happen to be able to post the liquid levels for the sample port, the thermowell port, and the bottom of the chilling coil, would you? I've been through many threads and haven't seen them yet for the ssbt unitank.

I did see a 5.5 gal minimum, but no reasoning. Thermowell? Negligible coil contact?

Thanks.

The reasoning is because of the coil, yeah. It says on the website somewhere that the very bottom of the coil is about 2.5G mark and 5.5G has half of the coil submerged.

I'll take some measurements soon™. Waiting on some other stuff to come in so it might be a tad.

 

[MaltManMike]

> The reasoning is because of the coil, yeah. It says on the website somewhere that the very bottom of the coil is about 2.5G mark and 5.5G has half of the coil submerged.

That's not too bad. Does anyone use some neutral, sanitize-able objects of stainless or glass or something to displace liquid and raise the surface level?

Also just noticed on your pic that the 3" TC port on top was between the barbs for the glycol. I could have sworn I saw a pic that was just a flat top disc with the barbs. That greatly eases the dry-hopping process vs. using the 1.5" ports. I'm even wondering about attaching a 3x3x3" TC tee above with a butterfly valve on the bottom, a gas post attachment on the side and a pressure release for the top. Could load the dry hops, add CO2 to purge O2 (and yes, some CO2) from the PRV on top. Open the valve and *boom* repeatable hop additions with nearly zero O2. Too silly/crazy to work?

 

[marjen]

Mine will be here today, can't wait!

 

[iijakii]

> The reasoning is because of the coil, yeah. It says on the website somewhere that the very bottom of the coil is about 2.5G mark and 5.5G has half of the coil submerged.

That's not too bad. Does anyone use some neutral, sanitize-able objects of stainless or glass or something to displace liquid and raise the surface level?

Also just noticed on your pic that the 3" TC port on top was between the barbs for the glycol. I could have sworn I saw a pic that was just a flat top disc with the barbs. That greatly eases the dry-hopping process vs. using the 1.5" ports. I'm even wondering about attaching a 3x3x3" TC tee above with a butterfly valve on the bottom, a gas post attachment on the side and a pressure release for the top. Could load the dry hops, add CO2 to purge O2 (and yes, some CO2) from the PRV on top. Open the valve and *boom* repeatable hop additions with nearly zero O2. Too silly/crazy to work?

I thought about the T setup too. I think I'll just purge a couple times after dry hopping though.

 

[marjen]

I thought about the T setup too. I think I'll just purge a couple times after dry hopping though.

ihave wondered about this process. In order to dry ho, you need to depressurize the tank. Would doing that once or twice cause any issues with the beer? I was just thinking if the pressure going up, down, up down would have an adverse effect? I was thinking of running a blow off tube until I dry hop, then dump trub, add hops and then pressurize.

 

[MaltManMike]

ihave wondered about this process. In order to dry ho, you need to depressurize the tank. Would doing that once or twice cause any issues with the beer? I was just thinking if the pressure going up, down, up down would have an adverse effect? I was thinking of running a blow off tube until I dry hop, then dump trub, add hops and then pressurize.

If what I suggested (tee on top) works, you wouldn't need to depressurize. That tee sits on top throughout ferment with the butterfly valve open at bottom and PRV at top. At dry hop time, close valve, flip PRV piece off, add hops, replace PRV, purge with CO2 from side (which also re-pressurizes tee), open valve to drop hops. Again, not sure if it'll work, but the theory seems reasonable.

As for the question, I don't believe that short-term pressure changes would affect the beer, but I also don't have any evidence supporting that hypothesis.

 

[iijakii]

Beer wont even be losing carbonation in the 10sec it takes to dryhop, it's just the tank headpressure that'll be dropping mainly. Even if it did, don't think there's any harm?

 

[iijakii]

> Oooooh somethin shiny just showed up...

Nice! You wouldn't happen to be able to post the liquid levels for the sample port, the thermowell port, and the bottom of the chilling coil, would you? I've been through many threads and haven't seen them yet for the ssbt unitank.

I did see a 5.5 gal minimum, but no reasoning. Thermowell? Negligible coil contact?

Thanks.

It looks like the thermowell port is about at the 4gal mark or so by the way. I filled up a 5gal bucket but comically spilled a bunch pouring it in, lol, so not exactly sure. So if doing a 5 gal batch maybe swap it to one of the lower ports. I'll take some actually precise measurements in the next day or two.

 

[marjen]

How are you cleaning it the first time through? Also what’s the best way to sanitize? CIP?

 

[jready]

How are you cleaning it the first time through? Also what’s the best way to sanitize? CIP?

The recommendation is to use TSP to clean the first time then sanitize with star san.

I got mine put together over the weekend cleaned it filled it with sanitizer (just dumped it in the top port)and pressure tested it.

I’m excited to try using the carb stone to oxygenate the wort.

This thing is a beast compared to the BME edition!

 

[marjen]

The recommendation is to use TSP to clean the first time then sanitize with star san.

Did you just fill it with water mixed with TSP all the way to the top? Same with Sanitizer?

 

[Morrey]

I just got around to unpacking my 14G uni tank this weekend, but it just came in Wed and I was admiring the box. Talk about quality...even the packaging was quality.

To dry hop I'll use a mesh hop tube with a hook and chain from Arbor Fab. It measures 2.75" diameter so it will fit in the 3" port perfectly. I had Arbor Fab customize a blank 3" TC end cap and weld a small bracket on the underside so the hook and chain would hang the hop strainer w/o letting it go all the way to the bottom....leaves it suspended middle way, and this is adjustable with the chain.

Since I bought the micro CIP spray ball to use with my 7gpm chugger pump, I also bought the 6" to 3" TC reducer to use while cleaning. I may be wrong and just spent $47 unnecessarily, but I felt like the coils sitting there would break up the spray pattern and not clean as effectively.

 

[Morrey]

Did you just fill it with water mixed with TSP all the way to the top? Same with Sanitizer?

I'm planning to run the PBW with the CIP spray ball, drain and rinse out, then do the same with Star San. I'll see if the passivation is adequate with star san like this so I don't have to make up a full 14G that way.

Pressure test and function test with water following.

 

[jready]

Did you just fill it with water mixed with TSP all the way to the top? Same with Sanitizer?

Sanitizer yes TSP no. I mixed it in a bucket then used a blue sponge (the ones suggested for stainless to scrub it. I then threw Ann the valves and smaller pieces into the bucket of tsp. Used a bottle brush in the insides of the smaller pieces. Once done I rinsed everything really well and put it all together then filled it with sanitizer.

Got the head pressure up to 10 and watched it overnight to see if it held.

Pretty much same thing I did with my BME fermenters and brite tanks.

Two pieces of advice for what it is worth. I did not install the shelf. It seemed like that would really restrict space when trying to dump trub and yeast. Also, get the wheels. This thing is easily 15 pounds heavier than the BME.

 

[iijakii]

Sanitizer yes TSP no. I mixed it in a bucket then used a blue sponge (the ones suggested for stainless to scrub it. I then threw Ann the valves and smaller pieces into the bucket of tsp. Used a bottle brush in the insides of the smaller pieces. Once done I rinsed everything really well and put it all together then filled it with sanitizer.

Got the head pressure up to 10 and watched it overnight to see if it held.

Pretty much same thing I did with my BME fermenters and brite tanks.

Two pieces of advice for what it is worth. I did not install the shelf. It seemed like that would really restrict space when trying to dump trub and yeast. Also, get the wheels. This thing is easily 15 pounds heavier than the BME.

How much height do the casters ad? I wish these were taller (and the legs a little wider out, a bit cramped with all of the fittings!) so you could put a bucket underneath the dump. Ive got a spare small end table I might just set mine on. Might buy some tall casters for it though, not sure.

 

[jready]

How much height do the casters ad? I wish these were taller (and the legs a little wider out, a bit cramped with all of the fittings!) so you could put a bucket underneath the dump. Ive got a spare small end table I might just set mine on. Might buy some tall casters for it though, not sure.

I will shoot a pic when I get home. Bucket might be a stretch but you could easily fit a large Tupperware tub under it. Like those ones you can get at the grocery store.

 

[Morrey]

I bought the optional rolling casters and they arrived with the tank. One factor to consider is the neoprene jacket won't go on with the bottom shelf in place. Once I get the heater pad secured in place, I suppose I'll just leave the jacket on w/o taking off to clean since I'll be using the CIP anyway.

I did note there is a very limited amount of room to use the dump valve with the shelf in place. I was thinking a Tupperware tub would work too. Another thing that may work and potentially fit would be an aluminum half or a full steam pan like I use when I cater BBQ events.

Seems the casters may bring the height up around 2.5" over and above the standard non-rolling feet that are included.

 

[iijakii]

Yeah I bought a TC to .75" or 1" hose barb adapter, cant remember which. Guess I'll just use that for now. Would much rather have it high enough to throw a container under. I have some large casters (not the threaded kind), maybe need to just make a little wood base.