Doing a Full Boil for the Very First Time

[Zhaph]

Hey folks, I have been brewing extract kits and some original extract recipes for a while now and I want to make the step up to doing full boils before I move to all grain. I just got a 10-gal brew pot with a ball valve (had cheapest Polarware kettle before) and am planning to brew NB's Chinook IPA as my first full boil test batch (specs here: http://www.northernbrewer.com/documentation/beerkits/ChinookIPA.pdf)

Here are some questions I have:
1) When I'm steeping the specialty grains before the boil, how much water should I use? I have heard 1 gallon per pound of grains, but I have always done more (usually 2.5 gal) previously because that's what the kit instructions said. However, I don't think steeping in a full 6 gallons is the right move, so how much? Also, can the lid of the kettle be on all the way during steeping?

2) I know I need to use about 25% less bittering hops, but do I need to adjust any of the other hop addition amounts?

3) I have been reading in the forums recently about adding DME as a late addition instead of at the start of the boil as many kits suggest. This kit comes with 1 pound of Pilsen DME; should I add it at the start as usual or later in the boil? I have read conflicting information about this practice as it pertains to full boils; everyone seems to agree that it lightens the color of beer in a partial boil, but that seems to be the point of the full boil to begin with, so I'm confused.

4) As mentioned before, this is my first kettle with a ball valve; any good tips on filtering out hop pellets? I usually use a strainer as I pour into the primary fermenter, but now with a valve I was thinking of whirlpooling the wort and then draining it out; does that work well? Does a Bazooka Screen or something similar do a good job of keeping out hop pellet remains, or do those things clog easily?

Thanks in advance to anyone who took the time to read all that and who is going to take the time to answer any questions and/or add their two cents.

 

[MalFet]

1) Steep in a smaller volume of water. 1 gal / lb sounds about right... You'll get less tannin extraction.

2) It's a bit more complicated than that, and there are a lot of variables (particularly gravity of your beer). You'll need to cut your early hops relatively more, but your later hops relatively less. TBH, I'm not sure I'd recommend brewing a kit designed for partial boil as a full boil. I mean, it will still be delicious beer, but you'll be getting a significantly different hop profile than the recipe designers intended.

3) Again, the primary impact of late vs. early extract additions has to do with hop utilization. Your best bet is to assume that the recipe designers know what they're doing, and to do that. The people at NB certainly know what they're doing. Late additions are useful for certain kinds of beers, and are particularly useful if you're trying to convert a full boil to a partial boil recipe. That said, though, there are a few calculations involved. The better brewing software will handle this for you.

4) Whirlpooling works great.

 

[superjunior]

I've done lots of bb kits similar to your nb kit. basically designed for a partial boil but the instruction state that doing a full boil will increase hop utilization and ibu's. it does not go into any detail on water and hop adjustments beyond that. That being said I've always done full boils and I do them exactly how I learned to brew at my favorite brewpub. I start with 6.5 gallons or 12+ gallons when doing 2 of these kits. I don't cut back on the hops at all, I like my beers BIG and hoppy.what I will do is add some more grains to ballence things out. your hop pellets will be sludge when your ready to transfer, when I first open the valve I'll catch the first bit of sludge with a strainer but this isn't really neccesary, the sludge will settle out during fermentation. whirlpooling will help a little with this also. the dme I add half when the instructions say and the other half about 20 min. left in the boil. this is by no means the "right" way to do a full boil with a kit, but its my way and works for me. I'll bring samples to my lhbs and the response I get is "WOW, how did you make THIS beer out of THAT kit? it tastes amazing!

 

[MikeRoBrew1]

I have never heard of steeping the specialty grains in a separate amount of water (although there would be nothing WRONG with it either). Every instructional I have seen has the brewer soaking their specialty grains in the full volume of water. Either putting the grains into cold water and heating to 170 and removing, or else heating to 170 and soaking. You don't need to be concerned with the 1.25g/lb ratio, that's for all grain brewing.

Don't forget to account for how much volume will boil off in an hour. For me on an indoor electric stove I evap about 1g/hr with the kettle lid off (7.5g kettle). With the lid partially on the kettle the amount of liquid evap'd is greatly reduced. How big is your new kettle?

If you want to use your ball-valve I would suggest getting a small coarse mesh nylon hop bag and putting all hope directly into that. It's a lot easier to lift out the hops than strain the whole 5 gal.

Good luck!

 

[troub]

I have never heard of steeping the specialty grains in a separate amount of water.

I'm glad I'm not the only one. I've been steeping in the full volume, and as far as I can tell everything's great.

 

[MalFet]

I have never heard of steeping the specialty grains in a separate amount of water. Every instructional I have seen has the brewer soaking their specialty grains in the full volume of water. Either putting the grains into cold water and heating to 170 and removing, or else heating to 170 and soaking. You don't need to be concerned with the 1.25g/lb ratio, that's for all grain brewing.

It's certainly a finer point, but the poster asked for best practices and there is research to suggest that steeping in a smaller volume is better. See this thread, for example. It's not like you're going to get poisonous, noxious wort if you don't do it, but I noticed a slight difference when I did a side-by-side comparison a few months back.

 

[MalFet]

Also, can the lid of the kettle be on all the way during steeping?

Forgot to address this part before. I don't see any problems with keeping the lid on. The business about keeping the lid off during boil has to do with the release of DMS from lightly kilned malt. Most steeped extracts are darker, and the wort will get a full, lid-off boil anyway, so unless somebody else can cite a problem I can't think of one.

 

[Darin]

+1 On the first time full boil. I have a couple AHS kits on the way and can't wait to try
it. Let me know how it goes for you.

 

[DustBow]

I believe the thinking on hop utilization has changed - it doesn't matter when you add the extract or how high the gravity is. Hop utilization will remain the same.
They now have tied hop utilization to break material, not gravity, so it's really not an issue w/ extract brewing at all anymore.
Since more break material comes from using more grain, which then produces a higher OG, brewers wrongly assumed it was the OG afffecting the hops, when it actually is the break material (which is pretty much removed during the extract process).

Later additions will lead to lighter color.

As far as straining your hops, are you fermenting in a bucket? If so, use a sanitized 5 gallon paint strainer bag in the bucket and run the wort through that during transfer. $5 for 2 at Lowes - they come in handy for lots of things.

 

[MalFet]

I believe the thinking on hop utilization has changed - it doesn't matter when you add the extract or how high the gravity is. Hop utilization will remain the same.
They now have tied hop utilization to break material, not gravity, so it's really not an issue w/ extract brewing at all anymore.
Since more break material comes from using more grain, which then produces a higher OG, brewers wrongly assumed it was the OG afffecting the hops, when it actually is the break material (which is pretty much removed during the extract process).

I've heard the arguments that it's break material and not gravity itself that affects hop utilization, and they're quite convincing. At the very least, the idea that hops gets bound up in the suspended hot break material is more intuitive to me than the idea that sugar concentration affects alpha acid isomerization.

That said, I've always gotten plenty of break material using DME. Not quite as much as with AG brewing, of course, but still enough that I'm not ready to dismiss it as a factor. I did a few side-by-sides a while ago comparing early and late extract additions, and found a small but noticeable difference. Then again, it certainly wasn't a double blind test and very well could have been my imagination. Now you've got me curious. More experiments needed. TO THE SCIENCEMOBILE!

 

[DustBow]

I've been AG for a while now but was toying w/ the idea of doing some extract batches simply to speed up the process during winter time. Since I have the equipment to do full boils, I started reading up a little on it and extract brewing - it's been a while since I've had to deal with the "powdery mess" and I was kind of surprised to come upon the new thinking w/ hop utilization.
The real shock, however, came when I remembered how much extract costs vs grain

 

[MalFet]

The real shock, however, came when I remembered how much extract costs vs grain

Good lord, yes.

 

[straylight77]

They now have tied hop utilization to break material, not gravity, so it's really not an issue w/ extract brewing at all anymore.

I've heard the arguments that it's break material and not gravity itself that affects hop utilization, and they're quite convincing.

Whoa. Really? Do either of you have a link to some more info on this? I've been shopping/saving to get a new brew pot so I can do full boils -- this might change things.

 

[jvcjbl]

I'm glad I'm not the only one. I've been steeping in the full volume, and as far as I can tell everything's great.

I heard from Yooper and a few others (as well as read) that full volume steeping will dilute the finished product. It was recommended to me to steep in 1.25L / lb of grain and then rinse with 165'f water and add this all to the final volume and boil.

 

[Darin]

The real shock, however, came when I remembered how much extract costs vs grain

Can you give me ballpark savings? (i.e. a typical AG batch costs xx% of the equivalent extract batch).

 

[MikeRoBrew1]

Hmm well jvc and others thanks for offering supporting info. I never had any problems but I would say it's good info to be aware of. http://byo.com/component/resource/a...er 2005/10-10-steps-to-better-extract-brewing

 

[jvcjbl]

Hmm well jvc and others thanks for offering supporting info. I never had any problems but I would say it's good info to be aware of. http://byo.com/component/resource/a...er 2005/10-10-steps-to-better-extract-brewing

The first batch I did I steeped the grains in the full 6.5 gallon of water and it seemed ok. Yooper recommended I get used to the same routine so brewing becomes second nature. Hence why I am getting accused to the water to grain ratio of all grain, so that way when I make the move I am used to the proportions.

 

[MalFet]

I heard from Yooper and a few others (as well as read) that full volume steeping will dilute the finished product. It was recommended to me to steep in 1.25L / lb of grain and then rinse with 165'f water and add this all to the final volume and boil.

It's not exactly a problem of dilution. Too much water mucks up your pH, which can lead to tannin extraction and thus astringency. But, again, this is a finer point, it's not something that will make or break your beer. I sometimes hate mentioning this kind of thing, because I don't want new brewers (not saying that's you) to read it and get intimidated.

Can you give me ballpark savings? (i.e. a typical AG batch costs xx% of the equivalent extract batch).

Well, figure a pound of domestic two-row costs about $1.30 for about 27 points of gravity (assuming a modest 75% efficiency), so that's about 4.8 cents per point. Extract prices can vary dramatically but cost me 3.75 per pound for 44 points, or 8.5 cents per point. So not quite half, but close. Of course, how much cheaper it makes your total costs depends on what you're paying for everything else.

Whoa. Really? Do either of you have a link to some more info on this? I've been shopping/saving to get a new brew pot so I can do full boils -- this might change things.

Here's a thread: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f37/late-addition-hop-utilization-188394/
There are still plenty of reasons to do full boil, though. Like I said before, even though I believe that it is because of break material and not because of gravity directly, I do think that late additions lead to better hop utilization. There are other consequences to boil volume, too, like color and melanoidin production. It's hard, for example, to make a clean and light pils from extract unless you do a late addition or a full boil. Plus, the big pot will be useful to you if you ever decide to go all grain.

All that said, though, don't be in too much of a rush to get out of partial boil extract. I've got a pretty good grip on my AG setup, but I still find myself doing extract batches as often as not just because it's so much quicker. AG certainly gives me access to more variables in the process, but I'm not sure it necessarily makes better beer. If your process isn't nailed down pretty firmly, it definitely doesn't make better beer.

 

[Zhaph]

Great, thanks for all the tips and advice, folks. This has really given me a lot of solid information, and even introduced some new ideas/topics to the mix! Thanks again to everyone, and I'll post again after brewday!

 

[MisterGreen]

I've read in a few places that you should steep in a ratio of 3qts of water for every pound of specialty grains.