Does partial boil size include extract?

[JiveTurkey]

If my (partial) boil size in Beersmith is 3 gallons (for a 5 gallon batch), does that include the malt extract mixed in?

For my last batch, I put 3 gallons of water in the pot, steeped the grains, then added 7 lbs of DME (I did not do a late-add with this batch). By the time it all got mixed in, the volume was closer to 4 gallons and the electric stove burner couldn't handle the volume (i.e. get it to a boil).

This leads me to think I should steep in a lower volume (I read online a good rule is 2 qt. per pound of specialty grains), then add in enough water and extract to get to 3 gallons. Does this sound right? If so, do you think that's what Beersmith assumes, too?

 

[smmcdermott]

I don't have beersmith, so I am not sure what they are telling you there. BUT, I am almost positive that you should not boil with less than 2.5 gal. So maybe start with that instead of 3 and you will end up around 3.5 gal. If your stove can't boil 3.5 gal, you are in trouble.

As for steeping, I steep mine in the partial boil. the 2 qt per pound is more for when you are doing all grain and is pretty high, but some people do it.

I am still learning though, so you might want to wait for a second opinion.

 

[damdaman]

I'm kind of a newbie as well but I believe that means 3gals of water. If you're going to do less then you should do half extract at beginning and half at end of boil to properly utilize your hops (the more extract-to-water you have the less your hops get utilized).

 

[JiveTurkey]

For my first two batches, I didn't know about hop utilization, so didn't bother getting the boil size just right; I just had a little more than half the 5-gallon pot filled with water before adding the extract.

For the last batch, I knew about the importance of boil size and hop utilization, but purposely added all the malt to actually minimize hop utilization as I was using a lot of hops for the flavor and aroma but wanted to keep the IBUs down.

For my partial boils, I'll be doing half of the extract at the beginning of boil and the other half at knock-out from now on.

Back to boil size... It's hard for me to wrap my head around '3 gallon boil size is 3 gallons of water before the malt extract,' for the following reasons:

1) For a full-boil extract batch, wouldn't the boil size have to include the extract? Let's say I have a 16.6%/hour evaporation rate, so I'd start with 6 gallons total for a 5 gal. batch. But if the 6 gallons was just water (and small amount of steeping grains sugars), then the total starting volume would end up being above 6 gallons (after the extract is mixed in), and wouldn't get all the way down to 5 gallons after 60 minutes.

2) For AG batches, the boil size would be the total volume of the wort, which includes the malt, right? So, same as above, I'd be shooting for 6 gallons of starting volume of the wort. The make-up of the wort would be similar to the make-up of a full-boil extract plus steeping grains wort.

EDIT: My questions center around an assumption: Extract mixed into water not only contributes mass but also some volume. I know it's mostly mass that's contributed since the wort becomes much more dense than the plain water, but as my last batch showed me, the volume also increased. Was this just because I was trying to add a full-batch's amount of extract to a partial-boil? Perhaps only adding half the extract will keep the volume from increasing significantly?