Does anyone rack onto a previous beers yeast cake?

[02883r]

Hello,

I have been transferring similar (or the same) style beers directly to the yeast cake of the previous beer(s) primary fermenter. I literally transfer the previous beer to a secondary while I am chilling the fresh batch. I have done this up to 4 times and never had any problems..... Has anyone else done this before?

 

[SudsyPaul]

Lots of people do this, and there's little harm in doing it that way. So long as your yeast cake hasn't been sitting for months and isn't passed the 4th/5th generation, you're pretty good. Some people would go further than that, but I, personally, wouldn't go past a 3rd gen yeast cake (but I'm paranoid)

 

[02883r]

Wow..... I just found a whole bunch of info on this... my bad!

 

[Xpertskir]

I'd avoid it, in almost all cases it will be a significant over pitch, which is generally more detrimental than underpitch

 

[02883r]

Lots of people do this, and there's little harm in doing it that way. So long as your yeast cake hasn't been sitting for months and isn't passed the 4th/5th generation, you're pretty good. Some people would go further than that, but I, personally, wouldn't go past a 3rd gen yeast cake (but I'm paranoid)

Thank you! I have gone 4 generations..... I never had a single problem, but there is a lot of yeast in the fermenter by then.

 

[Riot]

You can lose most of the sediment of you just pour off a cup or two into a new fermenter. It will still be a pretty big colony, and you have way less sludge at the bottom.

 

[eastoak]

Hello,

I have been transferring similar (or the same) style beers directly to the yeast cake of the previous beer(s) primary fermenter. I literally transfer the previous beer to a secondary while I am chilling the fresh batch. I have done this up to 4 times and never had any problems..... Has anyone else done this before?

you can do that but dig this, if you scoop out a cup of slurry (more or less depending on the gravity) for your next beer you will get a better beer. the size of the yeast pitch is not an insignificant detail, it's important.

 

[davekippen]

I'd avoid it, in almost all cases it will be a significant over pitch, which is generally more detrimental than underpitch

I dont think this is true. Everything I have read and experienced as a homebrewer shows that underpitching causes many many more problems than over pitching.

That said, I would pitch a big beer onto a whole cake, but normally I just scoop out a pint or so and pitch that into the new beer. I do agree that if you just continue to pitch 3 or 4 batches, you will have an extremely large amount of yeast. Probably at that point it is way too much! I cant even imagine how thick that cake must be!

 

[02883r]

I dont think this is true. Everything I have read and experienced as a homebrewer shows that underpitching causes many many more problems than over pitching.

That said, I would pitch a big beer onto a whole cake, but normally I just scoop out a pint or so and pitch that into the new beer. I do agree that if you just continue to pitch 3 or 4 batches, you will have an extremely large amount of yeast. Probably at that point it is way too much! I cant even imagine how thick that cake must be!

Yes, there is a lot... to the point that dumping 5 gallons of fresh wort into the 8 gallon fermenter almost fills it to the lid and makes a mess and blows the airlock or blow off tube right out sometimes....... But the beer always tastes great still.....

 

[02883r]

I made two identical batches of Roggenbier on the same day, but transferred one on top of a yeast cake that had already been used two times, then pitched fresh yeast in the other. After fermentation was done and bottled.... The two batches poured the same and tasted the same. You couldn't taste a difference or see a difference between the final products of the two batches.

This is where my question came from. I keep hearing about yeast washing, but have never done it. I just wanted to know if I was going in the wrong direction.

 

[02883r]

you can do that but dig this, if you scoop out a cup of slurry (more or less depending on the gravity) for your next beer you will get a better beer. the size of the yeast pitch is not an insignificant detail, it's important.

I will try that this weekend! that's a great idea! I have just been worried about infection doing that..... But it is probably just paranoia...

 

[kombat]

It's a massive overpitch, but it's better than underpitching. You're likely short-circuiting your lag phase, which is when a great deal of the esters and other flavour compounds are produced.

I usually swirl up my yeast cake with a little water, then collect it into 3 mason jars. Each jar gets used on another batch of beer, which is to say I'm repitching 1/3 of my yeast cake, rather than the entire cake as you are.

 

[eastoak]

I will try that this weekend! that's a great idea! I have just been worried about infection doing that..... But it is probably just paranoia...

if the beer that fermented on that yeast is not infected then the yeast cake is fine too, it's not suddenly infected after racking off the beer. that it is or is not infected is a separate issue having to do with sanitation or environmental factors not an inherent issue with reusing yeast.

 

[02883r]

if the beer that fermented on that yeast is not infected then the yeast cake is fine too, it's not suddenly infected after racking off the beer. that it is or is not infected is a separate issue having to do with sanitation or environmental factors not an inherent issue with reusing yeast.

That is true.... I just always look at opening and exposing the yeast to the environment is a risk factor for infection. I'm sure it is paranoia..... But I have never had an infected beer yet. I will give dividing the yeast cake up into three different jars this weekend..... I'm always learning!

 

[Xpertskir]

I dont think this is true. Everything I have read and experienced as a homebrewer shows that underpitching causes many many more problems than over pitching.

That said, I would pitch a big beer onto a whole cake, but normally I just scoop out a pint or so and pitch that into the new beer. I do agree that if you just continue to pitch 3 or 4 batches, you will have an extremely large amount of yeast. Probably at that point it is way too much! I cant even imagine how thick that cake must be!

http://www.wyeastlab.com/com-pitch-rates.cfm

There is a laundry list of issues from both, take your choice. The problems are compounded by the amount of the over/under pitch.

Even doing the OP's procedure one generation results in a significant overpitch. If the alternative would be pitching a vial or smack pack of yeast, the resulting underpitch wouldn't be close to the amount of overpitch from pitching on a cake. Thus the resulting overpitch would be more detrimental to the beer.


This point has been beaten like a deadhorse on here and the net in general. You are not doing your beer any favors with an over/under pitch. Pitching rates are important, pay attention to them. If you want to use slurry use the slurry option in mrmalty to approximate the pitch rate.

 

[02883r]

http://www.wyeastlab.com/com-pitch-rates.cfm

There is a laundry list of issues from both, take your choice. The problems are compounded by the amount of the over/under pitch.

Even doing the OP's procedure one generation results in a significant overpitch. If the alternative would be pitching a vial or smack pack of yeast, the resulting underpitch wouldn't be close to the amount of overpitch from pitching on a cake. Thus the resulting overpitch would be more detrimental to the beer.


This point has been beaten like a deadhorse on here and the net in general. You are not doing your beer any favors with an over/under pitch. Pitching rates are important, pay attention to them. If you want to use slurry use the slurry option in mrmalty to approximate the pitch rate.

That link was a good read! Thank you!

 

[davekippen]

http://www.wyeastlab.com/com-pitch-rates.cfm

There is a laundry list of issues from both, take your choice. The problems are compounded by the amount of the over/under pitch.

Even doing the OP's procedure one generation results in a significant overpitch. If the alternative would be pitching a vial or smack pack of yeast, the resulting underpitch wouldn't be close to the amount of overpitch from pitching on a cake. Thus the resulting overpitch would be more detrimental to the beer.


This point has been beaten like a deadhorse on here and the net in general. You are not doing your beer any favors with an over/under pitch. Pitching rates are important, pay attention to them. If you want to use slurry use the slurry option in mrmalty to approximate the pitch rate.

I never said it was good to over pitch. I just said it was better to over pitch than to under pitch. I believe the article you refrence supports that. I think everyone here would recommend to pitch the correct quantity, but that was not what this post was about.