Doctoring a RIS kit.

[mikek]

Really love the big and massive RIS out there. The Dark Lords, Darkness' etc.. Now I realize I am never going to brew something of that magnitude, but if I were to buy a legit RIS kit (extract) from one of the major kit suppliers, what would I want to buy extra to add to really make the beer massive? More grains?, extract?, both?.. I am fairly new to the whole process so I really need basic advice.. Like adding an extra pound of chocolate grains etc.... thanks for the help and any advice in advance.

 

[Hopinista]

Of course you could brew something big like Dark Lord (not even that good ) go ahead and download beersmith or use Brewer's friend and put together a recipe. Other than using a yeast starter(a must) and possibly adding maltodextron or oak(optional) if you've already brewed I'm sure you can put together a big stout using extract. I brew AG now but back in my extract days I made a very nice RIS

 

[mikek]

I appreciate the vote of confidence but the problem with those sites is you actually have to build the recipe from scratch.. I have no clue how to do that.. that's why I want to take a kit and add to it based on more experienced folks recommendations.

 

[Whattawort]

I usually buy at least a pound or two more of what base malt/extract and a pound or two of extra dextrose. Had to bump up the post boil gravity by a few points on a recent beer and I made a mini beer from .5lb of extract and a .5lb of dextrose. Worked like a charm. Actually, it worked a little too well and I ended up overshooting the grav.

 

[mikek]

I usually buy at least a pound or two more of what base malt/extract and a pound or two of extra dextrose. Had to bump up the post boil gravity by a few points on a recent beer and I made a mini beer from .5lb of extract and a .5lb of dextrose. Worked like a charm. Actually, it worked a little too well and I ended up overshooting the grav.

So no extra grains.. just extra malt and sugars... thanks...

 

[dobe12]

How about bourbon and oak in the secondary? I brewed an all grain RIS last year with french oak chips, bourbon and vanilla bean in the secondary. After it mellowed for about 8 months it was incredible.

 

[danath34]

I really recommend at least trying brewer's friend on your phone. yes, you have to input the recipe, but it's super easy to learn, and is very useful in telling you what you can expect in your final product, from bitterness, to abv, color, final gravity, etc. even if you're doing a kit, just input the ingredients that the kit comes with, then play around with adding more extract/grains and it'll tell you what it'll do to the final product.

 

[mikek]

I really recommend at least trying brewer's friend on your phone. yes, you have to input the recipe, but it's super easy to learn, and is very useful in telling you what you can expect in your final product, from bitterness, to abv, color, final gravity, etc. even if you're doing a kit, just input the ingredients that the kit comes with, then play around with adding more extract/grains and it'll tell you what it'll do to the final product.

This I never thought of.. I like that idea.. here is my concern.. I have no idea what to add.. what malts, grains etc..

Should I just add more of the ones in the kit so I don't totally butcher it??

 

[Hopinista]

If you're not interested in at least putting in the minimal effort of formulating a recipe, then maybe brewing isn't for you, and you should just stick to buying beer.

 

[Whattawort]

To be honest, I would do a basic stout kit. The instructions will list the amount/weight of the ingredients and if you want to expand on it later to make a bigger beer, you can find the appropriate ratio to add. Are you also willing to wait 6-12 months for this beer to be ready? RISs take a long time to peak.

 

[mikek]

nice.

 

[mikek]

If you're not interested in at least putting in the minimal effort of formulating a recipe, then maybe brewing isn't for you, and you should just stick to buying beer.

Thanks for the welcoming advice.. I don't think I ever said I was not interested.. thus the question in the first place. Being intimidated over trying to formulate a recipe has nothing to do with lack of interest. But thanks so much for the support..

smh....

 

[mikek]

Totally willing to wait.. I have a cloned Consecration going on it's 7th month.. will be adding oak chips and bottling this summer..

Quick question, if kit has Maltodextrin and I want to bump gravity with corn sugar, can both be used? Kit calls for 8 oz Malto.. was going to possibly cut to 6 oz and add some corn sugar..

 

[joyceman]

Putting together an RIS for extract I'd include roasted barley, choc malt, a high c malt 80-120, maybe carapils and enough extract to get you up to your targeted OG. Your OG should be around 1.1, maybe higher depending on what your going for. 1 LB of table sugar is OK to use here to help attenuation.

For hops you can probably go with a bittering addition getting you to 60-80 IBUs. I dont bother with later additions as they tend to be aged out.

For yeast, go with a higher attenuating yeast. MY last one was with WLP 007, but US-05 or nottingham are good. You need to have the proper amount of cells or you want get your FG low. Starter/aeration are important here.

For additions some stuff Ive seen are bourbon oak, brown sugar, molasses, treacle, coffee, vanilla & hazelnut. You can consider these as optional depending on your taste.

edited to add...

Heres an article to help you put together a recipe...

https://byo.com/pilsner/item/1336-russian-imperial-stout-style-profile

 

[mikek]

OK.. here goes my attempt at this

Grains:
1 lb crystal 40L
8 oz crystal 120L
8 oz Chocolate malt
8 oz black patent
8 oz black roasted barley

Fermentables:
12 lb ultralight LME
3 lb light DME
6 oz Maltodextrin


2 oz pellet Magnum 60 minute bittering
2 oz pellet Cascade 5 minute flavoring

White Lab Dry English Ale 007

any advice appreciated.... Oh and if I double pitch yeast can that come close to a starter??

 

[joyceman]

Couple of thoughts. Might want to use Maris Otter extract if available. If not, maybe an addition of some biscuit or victory to get more of the english flavor.

On the yeast, I know its seems intimidating at first, but a starter is no big deal and will save you 7.99 or whatever you pay for another vial of 007. As with alot of stuff, people tend to over complicate what can be a simple process. Couple of days ahead of time, boil 2 pints of water and a cup of DME. Sanitize something to hold it (anything, ive used old pop bottles), pour it in and shake it every now and then. On brew day shake it up and dump it in. You can chill and dump the 'beer' off the yeast at the bottom if you prefer before pitching.

 

[mikek]

Well brewed this today and so far spot on. The OG per brewers Friend was 1.105. My actual OG was was 1.10. Beautiful dark color. Smelled tremendous. Went a little lighter on the patent and heavier on the chocolate. In the ice bath and fermenting away within 6 hours. My starter did phenomenal. Now the wait begins.

 

[Johnnyhitch1]

I appreciate the vote of confidence but the problem with those sites is you actually have to build the recipe from scratch.. I have no clue how to do that.. that's why I want to take a kit and add to it based on more experienced folks recommendations.

Kits are....well kits for a reason. The recipe is already developed and are balanced, according to style of course.

When you start adding sugars to a recipe you either dry/thin the beer out with things like cane sugar and honey (100% fermentable) or end up making it cloyingly sweet with things like molasses and DME (not 100% fermentable)

The one problem you'll run in to with extract brewing in general is the sheer attenuation that AG brewers can reach when they brew these crazy high (>1.100) beers.

My advice to you is to try your hand at a partial mash and use a couple pounds of DME to up the gravity in the boil. This will give you a beer that (hopefully) will finish lower AND have body to make it full.

CHeers!

EDIT: always helpful to turn to the last page before commenting!

 

[mikek]

Kits are....well kits for a reason. The recipe is already developed and are balanced, according to style of course.

When you start adding sugars to a recipe you either dry/thin the beer out with things like cane sugar and honey (100% fermentable) or end up making it cloyingly sweet with things like molasses and DME (not 100% fermentable)

The one problem you'll run in to with extract brewing in general is the sheer attenuation that AG brewers can reach when they brew these crazy high (>1.100) beers.

My advice to you is to try your hand at a partial mash and use a couple pounds of DME to up the gravity in the boil. This will give you a beer that (hopefully) will finish lower AND have body to make it full.

CHeers!

EDIT: always helpful to turn to the last page before commenting!

I took the kit ingredients... Did some research on big RIS recipes and then added some things. I put it in brewers friend and hit all the marks. Hoping for the best.