Diy simple Dspr320 control box.

[sweets17]

Looking to wire up a fairly simple contro box. Have edited up a wiring diagram and am looking for advice/critique.

This has been modified from @doug293cz wiring diagrams he has graciously peppered about. Thanks

I plan on stuffing it all in this Box. No internal receptacles other than the 120v. Going the gland route, with some disconnects.

Some tinkercad fitment.

Any issues, comments, concerns???

I know it isn't particularly "safe" what with not using contactors and such. But I'd like to keep this thing tight, petite, and of course cheap, with a little bit of room for play

 

[doug293cz]

Schematic looks ok to me.

Brew on

 

[Bobby_M]

Simple is good, but find room for a 240v LED to show when the element is firing. That will one day save you from a dry fire.

 

[doug293cz]

Simple is good, but find room for a 240v LED to show when the element is firing. That will one day save you from a dry fire.

It's there in the upper right.

Brew on

 

[Bobby_M]

It's there in the upper right.

Brew on

I have to get my eyes checked.

 

[sweets17]

Awesome, thanks for taking a peek guys.

Either of you ever seen a magnetically latched or NVR type switch integrated with these?

 

[doug293cz]

Awesome, thanks for taking a peek guys.

Either of you ever seen a magnetically latched or NVR type switch integrated with these?

I have designed "safe start" interlock circuits that use a latched magnetic contactor, but never with an integrated NVR switch. What would be the reason for using this in your design?

I think the design you modified had the safe start interlock, and you stripped it out.

Brew on

 

[sweets17]

Yeah I did. I was attempting to make it simpler and more compact.

A single 30a nvr would be smaller and easier than the contactor loop.

Seems an industrial one of that rating would be expensive and bulky anyways. Could install one with a contactor but that sort of defeats the point.

 

[doug293cz]

Yeah I did. I was attempting to make it simpler and more compact.

A single 30a nvr would be smaller and easier than the contactor loop.

Seems an industrial one of that rating would be expensive and bulky anyways. Could install one with a contactor but that sort of defeats the point.

I don't think an NVR would allow the safe start interlock functionality, without adding extra components at a minimum.

Brew on

 

[sweets17]

I don't think an NVR would allow the safe start interlock functionality, without adding extra components at a minimum.

Brew on

Yeah, I'll scrap that idea and continue on.

 

[HighVoltageMan!]

I'm wondering why you put a mechanical switch in line with the SSR/heater? Typically there would be 2 SSR's in the circuit, one for each leg of the 240Vac circuit. Two SSR's adds a safety element to the heater, because even when it's not being fired, there is still one leg of the circuit that is hot. If you had a ground fault on the circuit, the heater would be on even when the controller wasn't calling for heat.

The "on/off'" would be with a less expensive switch if you interrupted the coil side of the SSR. You can use an inexpensive low voltage switch. It could also be used as a safety cut off. I built my system and put the switch in series with the coil voltage and labeled it "heat enable". So the controller can call for heat, but the switch can over ride the call for heat. Some people will put a mechanical switch in series in case the SSR fails closed. But this failure is very rare, most SSR's fail in an open position by design.

So in conclusion, drop the mechanical switch in series with the heater and add another SSR to the 240Vac leg. Use a low voltage switch to control the coil side of the SSR's. Lower current on the switches extends the life of the component.

EDIT: You could also drop the GFIC input IF it's dedicated to a specific device and IF there is no way to plugged in another device, such as a radio, vacuum cleaner etc. The GFIC are intended to protect outlet. If the unit is completely electrically isolated or grounded, the GFIC will not add any more level of safety. This is according to the US National Electric Code. That being said, many people add them just in case. I built a control system for a local brewery and I was not required to use GFIC on any of the heater circuits. I did have to add a GFIC for a 120Vac outlet on the side of the controller that was used to plug in an auxiliary pump, because as the inspector said, "someone could plug in a vacuum cleaner to it in a wet brewery".

 

[doug293cz]

I'm wondering why you put a mechanical switch in line with the SSR/heater? Typically there would be 2 SSR's in the circuit, one for each leg of the 240Vac circuit. Two SSR's adds a safety element to the heater, because even when it's not being fired, there is still one leg of the circuit that is hot. If you had a ground fault on the circuit, the heater would be on even when the controller wasn't calling for heat.

The "on/off'" would be with a less expensive switch if you interrupted the coil side of the SSR. You can use an inexpensive low voltage switch. It could also be used as a safety cut off. I built my system and put the switch in series with the coil voltage and labeled it "heat enable". So the controller can call for heat, but the switch can over ride the call for heat. Some people will put a mechanical switch in series in case the SSR fails closed. But this failure is very rare, most SSR's fail in an open position by design.

So in conclusion, drop the mechanical switch in series with the heater and add another SSR to the 240Vac leg. Use a low voltage switch to control the coil side of the SSR's. Lower current on the switches extends the life of the component.

EDIT: You could also drop the GFIC input IF it's dedicated to a specific device and IF there is no way to plugged in another device, such as a radio, vacuum cleaner etc. The GFIC are intended to protect outlet. If the unit is completely electrically isolated or grounded, the GFIC will not add any more level of safety. This is according to the US National Electric Code. That being said, many people add them just in case. I built a control system for a local brewery and I was not required to use GFIC on any of the heater circuits. I did have to add a GFIC for a 120Vac outlet on the side of the controller that was used to plug in an auxiliary pump, because as the inspector said, "someone could plug in a vacuum cleaner to it in a wet brewery".

Sorry to be blunt, but you don't know what you are talking about. An SSR is a current switch, it does not remove voltage from the load when off. Also, the most common failure mode is stuck in the "ON" state. A 2 pole mechanical switch protects against both of these issues.

You only need one SSR in the element current loop to modulate the power, and the SSR will consume 25 - 35W of power, thus reducing power available to the element. Using two SSRs will double the power lost to the SSRs. Since the same current flows thru the entire element current loop, two SSRs (one on each hot leg) would both carry the full current - there is no reduction in current per SSR by using two.

Switching the control signal to the SSR, does not remove voltage from the load (as stated above) and cannot cut off power thru a stuck SSR.

Skipping the GFCI is a hazard to life - don't do it. GFCIs protect people from dangerous shock levels. Fuses and breakers protect outlets and wires - not people or equipment. A dedicated circuit is no safer than a shared circuit. Commercial codes are likely different than residential codes, and home breweries need to meet residential code.

Brew on

 

[Bobby_M]

I'm wondering why you put a mechanical switch in line with the SSR/heater?

It's a DPST 30amp switch so it's a hard disconnect for both legs.

Typically there would be 2 SSR's in the circuit

No one ever builds brewing controllers like that.

The "on/off'" would be with a less expensive switch if you interrupted the coil side of the SSR.

SSRs don't have coils. Contactors/EM Relays do.

You can use an inexpensive low voltage switch.

Not ideal. SSRS fail in "current on" state whether the 12VDC is switched or not.

It could also be used as a safety cut off. I built my system and put the switch in series with the coil voltage and labeled it "heat enable".

The DPST switch you asked about is doing this job.

So in conclusion, drop the mechanical switch in series with the heater and add another SSR to the 240Vac leg. Use a low voltage switch to control the coil side of the SSR's. Lower current on the switches extends the life of the component.

The component is rated for 30amps. If it fails, it would be a manufacturing defect not a poor design.

EDIT: You could also drop the GFIC input IF it's dedicated to a specific device and IF there is no way to plugged in another device, such as a radio, vacuum cleaner etc.

No one hard wires homebrewing controllers so of course it's going to be a receptacle that gets plugged into. The reason GFCI is recommended is that we're electrifying a metal kettle and we're working in areas that can get splashed and wet making it very easy to ground ourselves while potentially touching an electrified object due to a ground fault. It's not even a small mystery why hot tubs require GFCI and this isn't much different. Even if the NEC said you didn't need it, this is a box with 240v in it that a relative amateur is cobbling together. Probably a very good application for GFCI.

 

[HighVoltageMan!]

It's a DPST 30amp switch so it's a hard disconnect for both legs.

Why do you need both switches. Your SSR is a switch. It's redundant.

No one ever builds brewing controllers like that.

Yes. Both legs are removed from the circuit. I would not have passed my inspection in a commercial setting with both legs being controlled.

SSRs don't have coils. Contactors/EM Relays do.

No sH1+. What do you called it? it's commonly referred to as a coil to avoid confusion. Technically, it would be called a gate. Technically the SSR is a triac, which is are 2 SCR's connected in parallel in opposite polarity with a common gate.

Not ideal. SSRS fail in "current on" state whether the 12VDC is switched or not.

I have been working with SSR for decades, I have not ran across any that failed in closed position.

The DPST switch you asked about is doing this job.

This done because you can use a single whetting voltage to control all functions with that voltage. Once the whetting voltage is removed, all functions stop. How else would you do an emergency stop or master override? The DPST is redundant.

The component is rated for 30amps. If it fails, it would be a manufacturing defect not a poor design.

Arching shortens the life of switches regardless of current rating, you misunderstand what I said. The switch would be done on the low voltage side of the SSR, the "coil" or gate if you prefer, to avoid this arching. The heavy lifting is done by the SSR, it doesn't arch, the low voltage switching extends the life of the switch. In addition, you lower the cost of the switch.

the reason GFCI is recommended is that we're electrifying a metal kettle

The kettle is grounded, why do you need a GFIC for that? Unless the kettle isn't grounded. The GFIC is not always needed was my point. Dedicated 240 circuits do not always need a GFIC. They are expensive and can become a nuisance if they falsely trip. If the kettle and element are grounded, how would you come in contact with a ground fault if this is the case? The only way this could happen is if the element conductor were exposed and come in contact with the liquid and you were to put hand in the pot. I'm not sure which would hurt more, the hot wort or the your contact with the fault. You need a GFIC on a hot tub, no doubt, but not a dryer in the laundry room nor on a stove in a kitchen.

I built a brewery which is still in service that does not have ant GFIC on the 240Vac circuits feeding any of the kettles. Both the boil and HLT have six 5500 watt elements on them and no GFIC. We did have a condition similar to what I described above and it tripped the breaker, the brewer continued brewing several batches not knowing the breaker tripped on one element. I went in and swapped out the element and the brewer was back in business. They have brewed over 70,000 gallons with my design.

Probably a very good application for GFCI.

It wouldn't hurt anything, just needless expense.

 

[HighVoltageMan!]

Sorry to be blunt, but you don't know what you are talking about. An SSR is a current switch, it does not remove voltage from the load when off.

Huh? How do you control current if you don't control the voltage? You have a fixed load impedance I'm assuming, right? If the voltage isn't removed how do control current? Magic? Ohm's law is officially suspended.

What you're confused about is called leakage. The SSR will have voltage on the output in an open condition with no load because of this. The semiconductor that does the switching leaks, or passes a very small current in an open position, as soon as any amount of load is applied, the voltage goes to zero. The leaking is measured in micro amps, like .00001 amps. If you measure it with a DVM, you will see some voltage, but the DVM's high impedance will start the load the SSR and you will see less than the input voltage. If you were to touch the SSR's output unloaded, there would be no harm to you. The current is just too low.

the SSR will consume 25 - 35W

The SSR drops about one volt regardless of load impedance. The SSR will dissipate (it doesn't consume) 1 watt for every 1 amp of current. So if you have a 5500 watt element, expect to see 22 watts of dissipation. The only problem with this is heat, it's not a significant loss overall.

Switching the control signal to the SSR, does not remove voltage from the load (as stated above) and cannot cut off power thru a stuck SSR.

Again, this is just silly. How do you control current without controlling voltage? You can't. As I stated before, SSR's rarely fail when properly heat sunk and sized and when they do it's in an open condition.

Skipping the GFCI is a hazard to life - don't do it. GFCIs protect people from dangerous shock levels.

As I stated before, they are not always necessary. If you feel better about, then add it. Make sure you put one on your electric dryer, just in case.

Sorry to be blunt, but you don't know what you are talking about.

Really? 40 years in electronics and engineering isn't enough. I make my living with this. I better know what I'm talking about.

 

[sbro]

Typically there would be 2 SSR's in the circuit, one for each leg of the 240Vac circuit.

Really stupid layman question here.
If each ssr is turning on and off their respective leg, how are they keeping in sync when calling for 50% power (PWM or one second on : one off , or other waveform method).
Is it the common control signal from the temperature controller that keeps them in sync to prevent 25% power when calling for 50% due to out of sync switching?

 

[Broken Crow]

Typically there would be 2 SSR's in the circuit,

Not at this scale...While a handful of members on here are commercial brewers, you'd be hard put to find many electric brewers on here using systems with 6 elements in the kettle alone. If you care to look through the 14-year old 'Electric Brewing' section, you'll find a huge number of successful and safe proven designs appropriate to the scale of homebrewers.

Really? 40 years in electronics and engineering isn't enough. I make my living with this. I better know what I'm talking about.

Really? You think that kind of arrogance instead of discussion with other long-experienced folk is appropriate?.. particularly in a thread where the OP is probably brewing 5-10G batches using well-proven designs? Did you even consider the schematic provided and work through it before pronouncing judgement against it for being unlike your Opinion?

 

[Bobby_M]

It's best to consider SSRs as soft switches and not replacements for mechanical disconnects. Would any inspector allow for an SSR or two SSRs to be the safety disconnect as required for hot tub/spa installs? Why not? I'm not interested in arguing semantics here. When I build controllers I put 2 pole contactors in so when the key switch is off, the output is OFF. Period. Not forcing you to embrace that concept.

The kettle is grounded, why do you need a GFIC for that? Unless the kettle isn't grounded. The GFIC is not always needed was my point. Dedicated 240 circuits do not always need a GFIC. They are expensive and can become a nuisance if they falsely trip. If the kettle and element are grounded, how would you come in contact with a ground fault if this is the case? The only way this could happen is if the element conductor were exposed and come in contact with the liquid and you were to put hand in the pot. I'm not sure which would hurt more, the hot wort or the your contact with the fault. You need a GFIC on a hot tub, no doubt, but not a dryer in the laundry room nor on a stove in a kitchen.

Most equipment is grounded by design but wire and its terminations are subject to damage, wear and tear. "Ground Fault" is precisely to protect in the case of a failure of the ground connection. No, generally not installed on hardwired appliances because you're not moving them around and making/breaking the connections. Why is GFCI required on hot tubs if they are already grounded? That's a rhetorical question. The reason is that people are sitting in water that is electrically heated and if that ground were to fail while the element shorted out, they die. That's a hard wired appliance too.

 

[HighVoltageMan!]

Really stupid layman question here.
If each ssr is turning on and off their respective leg, how are they keeping in sync when calling for 50% power (PWM or one second on : one off , or other waveform method).
Is it the common control signal from the temperature controller that keeps them in sync to prevent 25% power when calling for 50% due to out of sync switching?

Most SSR's turn on at zero cross over, so when they get the signal to fire, they wait until the voltage is at zero and they fire. When the fire signal is removed, the all SSR's cannot turn off until the voltage/current is zero (cross over). Both legs of the circuit need to be on in order for any current to flow.
If the SSR's are tied to the same control point, they will be in sync. The ability to modulate power comes from firing the SSR's on and off at a given rate. Some controllers can go as low as 3 cycles on/off at a time. This would mean the heater is on for @45ms and then is turn off. You can achieve very tight control depending on the controller.

 

[HighVoltageMan!]

It's best to consider SSRs as soft switches and not replacements for mechanical disconnects. Would any inspector allow for an SSR or two SSRs to be the safety disconnect as required for hot tub/spa installs? Why not? I'm not interested in arguing semantics here. When I build controllers I put 2 pole contactors in so when the key switch is off, the output is OFF. Period. Not forcing you to embrace that concept.

You would use the breaker in the electrical panel. It's done all the time. You can put the switch in there, but it's not necessary.

Most equipment is grounded by design but wire and its terminations are subject to damage, wear and tear.

GFIC are a poor substitute for a good ground and proper maintenance. The ground is your best defense against accidental electrical contact, even more so then the GFIC. Homebrewers who are not familiar with electricity should be cautious. Everything that is metallic needs to be grounded, including heat sinks.

I'm not saying not to use them, but there are situations where it is not necessary and a waste of money.

The reason is that people are sitting in water that is electrically heated and if that ground were to fail while the element shorted out, they die.

The point being, the people are in the liquid. If it were a stainless steel hot tub and no one ever got in, the grounding on the stainless tub tub would suffice. There would be no lethal voltages on the vessel/tub if it were grounded correctly during a fault. Are there GFIC's on electric hot water heaters? Why not? You can add a GFIC, but again, it not always necessary.

I'm not trying start an argument, just trying add to the conversation.

 

[HighVoltageMan!]

Not at this scale...While a handful of members on here are commercial brewers, you'd be hard put to find many electric brewers on here using systems with 6 elements in the kettle alone. If you care to look through the 14-year old 'Electric Brewing' section, you'll find a huge number of successful and safe proven designs appropriate to the scale of homebrewers.

I have seen those old designs and I don't recommend them. Two SSR's opens the circuit completely and is, in my opinion, safer.

Really? You think that kind of arrogance instead of discussion with other long-experienced folk is appropriate?.. particularly in a thread where the OP is probably brewing 5-10G batches using well-proven designs? Did you even consider the schematic provided and work through it before pronouncing judgement against it for being unlike your Opinion?

I apologize if I came off a bit arrogant. Yes, I did consider it and it will work, but I would change a couple of things in it.

I also was responding to false understandings about SSR's. Quite frankly, the responses were rude, I should have not responded in kind. Non the less, I have have a lot experience working around this stuff.

 

[sibelman]

Sorry to state the obvious: ground fault interruptors protect against ground faults. I suppose if the probability of a ground fault is close to zero the benefit of GFCI (GFIC?) is correspondingly low.

What convinced me to buy a spendy GFCI, even though I'm pretty (over?) confident in my home-built gear, was the comment elsewhere on this forum that this gear is used where there's often water on a concrete floor, and especially, there could be beer involved.

I protect my DPST cutoff switch from arcing by operating it when the SSR control is off - almost all the time.

fwiw, GFCI has helped by tripping when my element enclosure leaked and filled with water - a failure mode that would not have tripped my ordinary panel breaker (I tested that).

I urge the use of less hard-edged language. Yes, I know it's common among engineers, but IMHO this forum works best when it stays civil and polite, even kind.

CHEERS!

 

[Bobby_M]

You would use the breaker in the electrical panel. It's done all the time. You can put the switch in there, but it's not necessary.

Expecting someone to use their breaker to shut the box down is unrealistic. That might be in the basement 120 feet away. You might as well just say to unplug the power cable. I'm afraid your massive amount of commercial experience has blinded you to the ways of the home owner hobbyist.

GFIC are a poor substitute for a good ground and proper maintenance. The ground is your best defense against accidental electrical contact, even more so then the GFIC. Homebrewers who are not familiar with electricity should be cautious. Everything that is metallic needs to be grounded, including heat sinks.

I'm not saying not to use them, but there are situations where it is not necessary and a waste of money.

And I'm arguing that a home brewing setup is the situation where leaving it out is careless and stupid. The elements are not typically hard wired. The controller is not typically hardwired to the circuit either. There are portable cables involved that can be struck by something sharp where you don't notice that the ground got severed. The ground pin on any given cable might disconnect from the ground wire due to repeated disconnections, external strain, etc. Essentially you're arguing that the user should be perfectly hyper aware of the state of repair of all equipment involved, that they would obviously immediately notice when something has gone wrong, AND be very lucky that no electrocution occurs before that. Can you imagine the resentment a widow would have for their late husband who died in the middle of brewing to save a hundred bucks?

A GFCI breaker carries a $100 premium for most load centers. If that's the difference between being able to install it and being out of one's price range, electric brewing is not the hobby for that person. This is one very cheap layer of safety given the consequences. I drove my car home about 25 miles once in the middle of the night with no working hydraulic brakes because it was a manual transmission and I knew I could get it done. I wouldn't recommend it.

 

[sibelman]

might disconnect from the ground wire due to repeated disconnections, external strain, etc. E

Yes. Also, inadequate termination, even by a commercial supplier, could lead to a ground fault.

All this said, while we've seen instances of melted components due to crappy connections, I haven't yet read of 240VAC shocks to actual homebrewers. This does not mean adding GFCI is excessive or wasteful.

 

[HighVoltageMan!]

Expecting someone to use their breaker to shut the box down is unrealistic. That might be in the basement 120 feet away. You might as well just say to unplug the power cable. I'm afraid your massive amount of commercial experience has blinded you to the ways of the home owner hobbyist.

And I'm arguing that a home brewing setup is the situation where leaving it out is careless and stupid. The elements are not typically hard wired. The controller is not typically hardwired to the circuit either. There are portable cables involved that can be struck by something sharp where you don't notice that the ground got severed. The ground pin on any given cable might disconnect from the ground wire due to repeated disconnections, external strain, etc. Essentially you're arguing that the user should be perfectly hyper aware of the state of repair of all equipment involved, that they would obviously immediately notice when something has gone wrong, AND be very lucky that no electrocution occurs before that. Can you imagine the resentment a widow would have for their late husband who died in the middle of brewing to save a hundred bucks?

A GFCI breaker carries a $100 premium for most load centers. If that's the difference between being able to install it and being out of one's price range, electric brewing is not the hobby for that person. This is one very cheap layer of safety given the consequences. I drove my car home about 25 miles once in the middle of the night with no working hydraulic brakes because it was a manual transmission and I knew I could get it done. I wouldn't recommend it.

I'm not going to argue with you any more. As I said in the past I'm very experienced on these types of system. I had an inspector crawl up my ass on the very things you said were wrong and I passed, he even complimented on the quality of the build. We could argue until eternity and it would do no good.

Happy brewing.

 

[Bobby_M]

I'm not going to argue with you any more. As I said in the past I'm very experienced on these types of system. I had an inspector crawl up my ass on the very things you said were wrong and I passed, he even complimented on the quality of the build. We could argue until eternity and it would do no good.

Happy brewing.

I never accused you of doing bad work. Obviously your work is inspected and up to the standards of your field. I do think you're out of touch with the reality of HOME brewing on electric systems. We agree that grounded systems without GFCI CAN be safe and they SHOULD be. However, GFCI is a layer of protection for when they are not. I don't think this point can be countered logically so I concur with quitting this. I think future viewers have enough to chew on at this point.

 

[sbro]

A commercial brewery and home setup have many differences, among them are permanently mounted kettles with probably wires run in conduit to components (heaters) rather than flexible cables that are prone to damage from use with a portable system.

The kettle is grounded

I am guessing the commercial kettles have a separate ground to them in addition to the ground going to each element. which further reduces any need for a GFCI. Your system as a whole is why no GFCI is needed and not directly related to only dual SSR's
GFCI use in a home brew setting acts as an early warning of any potential problem (current leak short of tripping a breaker) and will usually alert you to a problem before it becomes a life threatening situation as bobby noted.

wire and its terminations are subject to damage, wear and tear.

Not to mention inexperienced brewers with these electrical components and connections.

Nice discussion of the different design aspects!

 

[sweets17]

Well got it all built. Fairly straightforward project. Brings to boil from 70F in 21 minutes, is that about right for 5500w?

Brewed with it last weekend and it seemed to work well. Had issues holding mash temp steady, at least when referencing the dspr temp readout. Was overshooting quite a bit. Should have probed and verified tho.

I don't have a pump and intend to not use one. Sewed up a neoprene jacket and I think I'll just turn the element off when mashing.

 

[Broken Crow]

Very neat and compact! I am wondering though; Did it get very hot? I see you have a decent sized external heatsink, but I am wondering about internal heat and if you considered drilling some venting holes. I'm still designing my own with a slightly oversized heat sink inside the box with a small fan and venting above and below...I've never been sure how much 'left over' heat radiates from the plastic side of the SSR and if it would be of concern in a confined space with a PID. Very interested to know what your experience/thoughts are in this regard.

 

[sweets17]

Very neat and compact! I am wondering though; Did it get very hot? I see you have a decent sized external heatsink, but I am wondering about internal heat and if you considered drilling some venting holes. I'm still designing my own with a slightly oversized heat sink inside the box with a small fan and venting above and below...I've never been sure how much 'left over' heat radiates from the plastic side of the SSR and if it would be of concern in a confined space with a PID. Very interested to know what your experience/thoughts are in this regard.

The heat sink doesn't get very hot I wouldn't hold my hand on it, but it's not too hot to touch.

It's the heat sink Auber recommends and states no internal fans are required if it's installed.

I have the heat sink isolated from the enclosure with some old epdm liner in an attempt to keep the box from warming up and "keeping" out inevitable spills. Even still the enclosure is warm, but not hot.

I have no worries about internal heat problems in the short run.

 

[Bobby_M]

No problem with that setup. The case is aluminum so it should convey the heat to the heat sink pretty well, especially with a little thermal paste on both sides of the enclosure. I've built in that same box a few times.

The overshoot MIGHT be a setting (OSC) in the menu but that would be best verified by just a water test. If it doesn't overshoot with just water then the OSC setting is correct. In that case, the issue really just is the fact that you're not recirculating/whirlpooling and/or the temperature probe is not really in an ideal spot. Where did you mount the probe?

 

[sweets17]

No problem with that setup. The case is aluminum so it should convey the heat to the heat sink pretty well, especially with a little thermal paste on both sides of the enclosure. I've built in that same box a few times.

The overshoot MIGHT be a setting (OSC) in the menu but that would be best verified by just a water test. If it doesn't overshoot with just water then the OSC setting is correct. In that case, the issue really just is the fact that you're not recirculating/whirlpooling and/or the temperature probe is not really in an ideal spot. Where did you mount the probe?

Rog, yeah I assumed it was because of no recirc. I didn't let it "mash" during the 9 gallon water test, but it reached all the proper numbers just fine.

Element is at 2 o clock and 2" probe is at 1 o clock.

 

[sbro]

Nice Job!
The outlet on top probably should have been in the back to protect it more from any splashing but you may have been full on the back.
Looks like you got rid of the pid switch and that comes on with the main switch.
If you don't intend to use a pump, what is the outlet for? A steam condensing pump?

 

[sweets17]

Nice Job!
The outlet on top probably should have been in the back to protect it more from any splashing but you may have been full on the back.
Looks like you got rid of the pid switch and that comes on with the main switch.
If you don't intend to use a pump, what is the outlet for? A steam condensing pump?

Hey thanks.

Yeah probs should have. The dspr is switched. I moved the switch to the rear, due to dimension issues on my part.

I kept the outlet for future proofing just in case. Figured it's easier to install now and pay the few bucks.

 

[Bobby_M]

Rog, yeah I assumed it was because of no recirc. I didn't let it "mash" during the 9 gallon water test, but it reached all the proper numbers just fine.

Element is at 2 o clock and 2" probe is at 1 o clock.

Both sit UNDER the bag though right? Even so, without any movement at all, the element is going to make a bunch of heat and by the time it makes its way over to the probe, it will be slightly overheated.

You can probably leave the heat on during the mash but I would set the mOUT setting in the back end menu to like 5% while just holding the mash. It sort of nerfs the element so it can't make rapid changes.

What I really think is that the ultimate is keeping things moving via pump so that the controller can really do its thing. Otherwise, you could have just gone with the DSPR120.

 

[sweets17]

Both sit UNDER the bag though right? Even so, without any movement at all, the element is going to make a bunch of heat and by the time it makes its way over to the probe, it will be slightly overheated.

You can probably leave the heat on during the mash but I would set the mOUT setting in the back end menu to like 5% while just holding the mash. It sort of nerfs the element so it can't make rapid changes.

What I really think is that the ultimate is keeping things moving via pump so that the controller can really do its thing. Otherwise, you could have just gone with the DSPR120.

Yes both are under the bag and inline with one another. I'll mess around with that setting and see how it goes.

It's nice to have the option if I decide to go that route. Pumps just seem like a pita to clean and more junk to carry around.

I can currently fit all the equipment in the kettle. Idk why I made that a goal but it is lmao.

 

[Bobby_M]

A pump is rather self cleaning because you just pump some cleaning solution from the kettle and back into the kettle. I use a topsflo TD5 pump and I can imagine I could fit 10 of them inside my kettle. Compact enough to QD directly onto your drain.

 

[sweets17]

A pump is rather self cleaning because you just pump some cleaning solution from the kettle and back into the kettle. I use a topsflo TD5 pump and I can imagine I could fit 10 of them inside my kettle. Compact enough to QD directly onto your drain.

View attachment 828328

That is a cute little guy. I like how you've got it directly mounted.

What would you say are the advantages of a pump, effeciency? Also good to know they're easy to maintain.

 

[Bobby_M]

My primary reasons for using a pump:

1. Temp stability. I route the output to both a whirlpooling port under the bag to keep the heating zone constantly mixed. No operational over or undershoot of temps that way. I also split off and put about 10-20% of that flow back on top of the grain through the lid. That keeps the top end of mash at the same temp, give or take 1F. The top end is where most of the heat is lost naturally.

2. Whirlpooling for faster chilling. I drop my immersion coil in and the whirlpooling action means I don't have to stand there and stir. It also let's me put my lid mostly on once the wort is below 140F to keep contaminant like grain dust from settling in.

3. Whirlpooling to pack trub in the center of the kettle. This could be achieved by stirring to be honest, but I have the pump and it was already whirlpooling so I just take the chiller coil out and let it do its thing for 2 minutes.

4. I still use small plastic carboys so I can easily gravity drain the finished wort into them. If I did have conicals several feet away, I'd likely use the pump to move the wort there. May or may not apply to you.