DIY Alkaline Brewery Wash (PBW type cleaner)

[mike_57401]

Hello.

I read where folks like Denny have had great success using Alkaline Brewery Wash. I believe Denny says he likes it better than PBW: can use with cold water or hot, etc.

In looking into the MSDS for ABW, here is what I see:

Sodium Carbonate (washing soda) - 50-65%

Sodium Metasilicate (TSP/90) - 30-40%

Sodium Sesquicarbonate - 0≤ 5%

Looks pretty simple, no? Blend roughly 60% washing soda, 35% TSP/90, and 5% Sodium Sesquicarbonate.

The first two ingredients are easily obtained. How about the last one? I see it is available on the net for sale, relatively cheaply. It's also an ingredient in Lemi Shine dishwashing pods, but also accompanied by a number of other ingredients.

What do you think?

 

[Pappers_]

I can't speak directly to your recipe, but I have a few friends who have tried the DIY variant of PBW and they've reported mixed results. I have no idea if its this recipe or another, though.

 

[Andy_K]

Sodium sesquicarbonate is the main ingredient (90-95%) in TSP-PF from Savogran based on their MSDS sheet. I'd use that as a substitute. It looks like both the sodium sesquicarbonate, and the sodium carbonate are what make this alkaline. I'd love a more effective overnight solution for soaking my fermenting kegs... PBW isn't cutting it for me, even with hot water.

Anyone else using alkaline brewery wash?

 

[BLL]

Sodium Sesquicarbonate isn't necessary. Sodium Percarbonate will yield the same thing and is much easier to obtain.

You'll need an oxidizer, a sequestrant, and a buffer. Sodium Percarbonate is the primary ingredient in most oxygen-based cleaners and is very commonly used in alkaline cleaners as well because it yields Sodium Carbonate (builder) and Hydrogen Peroxide (oxidizer). You can use it by itself at home mixed in water to produce an alkaline cleaner if dosed heavily and used at minimum of 140*F or build a mix including a sequestrant and a buffer for a more effective wash. As long as your not letting crud fester on the side of your tank for weeks after you've racked it out you shouldn't need to go that far as long as you use it hot. Sodium Percarbonate can also be mixed in lower doses, kept under 80*F and stabilized with a mild acid to make a no-rinse santizer. The lower dose will less of an impact on pH and the beer will neutralize any that remains. There may be some Sodium Carbonate residue, but in low quantities that's not going to hurt anything.

PBW and similar products are about as good as it gets before you start getting into more hazardous stuff that you're probably not going to be able to obtain anyway. Oxygen based cleaners are nice because they tend to decompose into things that are already present in the environment like oxygen, water, various salts and you can make them at home. If PBW isn't cutting it, dose it heavier.

 

[Andy_K]

I've dosed PBW far heavier than required and still need a brush inside the keg. I'm waiting to burn through the rest of my PBW stash to make the TSP/90 and oxiclean mix (sodium metasilicate and sodium percarbonate/carbonate) . Is there a benefit to using Sodium carbonate over sodium percarbonate in any case? As OP said, alkaline brewery wash has popularity but some say it's so hard on your hands that it requires gloves. To me, that sounds like it would do great work on organic crud, but I've never tried.

If sodium carbonate was replaced with sodium percarbonate, it would closely resemble PBW. Seems to me that the sodium carbonate or sodium sesquicarbonate is what's making this work more effectively. Sodium percarbonate releases hydrogen peroxide, which acidic properties may neutralize the alkaline nature that makes this solution work?

Disclosure: I'm no chemist.

 

[BLL]

Even Sodium Hydroxide and engineered caustic soda blends at 180+*F don't get tanks completely clean all the time in production settings. Brewing is a labor of love for professionals and hobbyists alike and there's no way around the inglorious necessity of cleaning up yeast mess like a baby's diaper.

Sodium carbonate is simply a salt. It can be useful as a building block for a cleaning blend, but is virtually useless as such without other essential components. Sodium Percarbonate provides both carbonate and a powerful oxidizing agent. Sodium Carbonate and Sodium Percarbonate together with along with Sodium Metasilicate as a buffer are three ingredients you'll find in almost any of the products relevant to this discussion.

Hydrogen Peroxide is significantly less stable in an alkaline solution and at elevated temperature where it will decompose into water and Oxygen at much faster rate, but still performs it's essential function in an oxygen-based cleaner. Hydrogen Peroxide as an oxidizing agent is also a common component in sanitizing blends where it is usually coupled with an acid and used at lower temperature to stabilize it and make it useful over a greater period of time. In a production setting you would see it blended with peroxyacetic (peracetic) acid (also an oxidizing agent) and together they would be the last thing to touch a surface before the wort itself such as the inside of a tank. Trace amounts are immediately neutralized by the wort itself.

If you make soap at home you'll know that Sodium Hydroxide (lye) is a key ingredient. If you want to aggressively clean your equipment then you can use Sodium Hydroxide at high temperatures as a caustic soda cleaner by itself. It will be much more effective than any of the typical blends home brewers use, but it is much more hazardous. It is dangerously reactive with water (especially at elevated temperatures which is what you'll need to use in) and is highly corrosive. If it's not properly rinsed and followed by an acid cycle to help neutralize it, it can and certainly will taint beer. In it's granulated anhydrous form it is a serious irritant and you'll want to be gloved and goggled around it at all times even after it's in solution. If you're all unhappy with PBW then that's really the only thing that'll be more effective and it's not going to save you from scrubbing here and there.

Cheers

 

[stamandster]

Barolkleen might work for you, sounds around similar to what the ABW is but without the Metasilicate, instead using Lye, which is what BLL was mentioning.

 

[BrunDog]

There is a homemade PBW thread on here... quite extensive discussions/experiences reported there. I have had great experience with it, though it does foam more than legit PBW.

 

[Denny]

One of the keys os the percarbonate you use. PBW and Oxiclean use percarbonate made for the laundry industry. Craftmeister uses a different form that dissolves and rinses more readily.