Did I ruin THREE bottle harvested yeast samples?

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FatDragon

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A wise man, having three bottles of the same beer from which he wishes to harvest yeast, leaves at least one bottle in reserve in case his first attempts fail. He protects the yeast militantly from potential infection. He follows standard protocol and sound advice from those who have come before him.

I'm not a very wise man. I've also never bottle-harvested yeast, so I could be misreading totally normal signs in classic new homebrewer fashion.

I took three bottles of Saison Dupont about a week ago. Sanitized the outsides of the bottles, prepared 300mL of 1.020 starter wort, poured the chilled beer, being careful to leave the dregs, then poured 100mL of starter wort into each, covered fairly tightly with sanitized aluminum foil, and left them in a room-temperature place for a couple days, swirling gently when I had the chance.

I knew not to expect too much activity the first time around, so I made another 600mL of 1.020 starter wort (I know this is too much), and added each bottle's contents to three well-sanitized pickle jars with 200mL of the wort in each, covered again with sanitized foil folded tightly over the lip of the jars. Again, I swirled the jars when I had the chance. I let this go for four or five days, since I figured I had given more than enough sugar for the yeast to munch so early in the process.

I cold-crashed each of the jars in the fridge yesterday after looking at them and seeing that things look and smell a bit unsettling. We've got some big white lilies in the house right now that have been in the vase a couple days too long and the musky, perfumey smell is starting to turn - the starters smell like that, but a bit more stale. Two of the starters have some thin film on top and a bit growing up the sides, and the third has transparent, gelatinous things floating beneath the surface. All three also clearly have some yeast flocculated out at the bottom - The first two have caked pretty well, while the third seems to have little yeast rafts down near the bottom.

The first two pictures are Jar A, the next two are Jar B, the last two are Jar C. Getting another bottle of Saison Dupont is likely not an option before I want to use this yeast, but I can fall back on Belle Saison if this stuff is too sketchy.

Thoughts?

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I don't see anything wrong with your process. There are bugs in that beer so you are likely seeing their contribution, pellicle and all. More surprised to see them that quick.

Correction:
Sorry, read past the Dupont reference. No, Dupont should not have bugs.

Could be a sanitation issue, or just the way the yeast is. The clingyness in picture #2 looks like a pellicle starting.
 
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Bugs in dupont?

This is my question as well. I've heard about Dupont yeast being finicky about temperature and dropping out unfinished if there's a temperature drop, but nothing about bugs. I really don't want to waste my hard-to-get pilsner malt and a hard-fought brewday on a brew that's destined to fail.

So, anybody who has successfully harvested Saison Dupont - do pellicles happen with a good harvest of Dupont, or am I out of luck?

Edit: Also, while I did some heavy scrubbing, soaking, and even a boil, these pickle jars still had a tiny pickle aroma, though they looked totally clean. Is it possible that the acidity of the fermented starter wort may have gotten some kind of pickle residue off the glass and that's what the film on samples A and B is? Just a 'no stone left unturned' thought that occurred to me.
 
If you really scrubbed and boiled them, I doubt it's from left over pickle junk. Like the others said, it doesn't look good.

Just my 2 cents, but if you have to fight hard to get a brew day like I do, make it count. Don't leave anything to chance, especially the most important ingredient (besides water). :)
 
Third one looks the best, if I had to choose one, I guess. If I didn't, though, I'd go with the Belle Saison. Nothing at all wrong with it. Makes a fine saison.
 
Third one looks the best, if I had to choose one, I guess. If I didn't, though, I'd go with the Belle Saison. Nothing at all wrong with it. Makes a fine saison.

My last saison was made with Belle Saison, and it was indeed a fine saison. Fermented dry, left lots of room for the adjuncts to shine. It was a fine saison in the way you respond to the question, "How are you?" with, "I'm fine." Not in the way you refer to a "fine wine". It was too clean to really blow me out of the water, whereas Dupont has some outstanding yeast character, hence my desire to give it a whirl.

What I'll probably do is make a three-liter BIAB brew with some 2-row, hop it to 15 IBU, and ferment a liter on each sample in 1.5L water bottles. Fine grind, 15-20 minute mash, 30 minute boil/simmer, chill in the kitchen sink. I think I can get a go-ahead for something like that pretty easily.

Still would be nice to know what to expect, maybe from someone who's actually harvested Dupont and knows whether or not there should be a pellicle.
 
I really don't think you should see a pellicle, and you don't specifically need someone thats made a starter, anyone whos brewed with dupont yeast is fine, and never heard anyone talk about a pellicle. and it doesn't really look like you have one anyway. I would be most concerned with the way it smells. It it doesn't smell right. Don't use it. This goes with most things in life. I might take the best looking one decant, throw some new starter wort in, and give a smell mid fermentation. Perhaps it smells weird cause it's finished fermenting and is all oxidized. The pictures don't look like much to me, although some are hard to see.
 
So I made three liters of beer with some two row and about 20 IBUs of bittering and pitched each decanted sample in a liter, using 1.5 liter water bottles as my fermenters. The A sample was slimy, almost gelatinized. The B sample was not as bad as A, but a bit slimy. C was all liquid and seems the most promising. They had all started fermenting when I checked about eight hours after pitching, with the biggest kraeusen on C, then B, and much less on A. Overnight, B overtook C for biggest kraeusen, but they both grew, while A is still lagging.

And I'll add that I got some PM responses from a couple guys who have harvested DuPont and never saw a pellicle.
 
Is there a particular reason youre harvesting from the bottle? I believe WLP 565 and wyeast 3724 are the dupont strain and with the commercial culture you dont need to worry about infection.
 
Is there a particular reason youre harvesting from the bottle? I believe WLP 565 and wyeast 3724 are the dupont strain and with the commercial culture you dont need to worry about infection.

China. No liquid yeast here unless you're willing to go to lengths to get it. Plus it's good to add bottle harvesting and yeast troubleshooting to my book of tricks.
 
China. No liquid yeast here unless you're willing to go to lengths to get it. Plus it's good to add bottle harvesting and yeast troubleshooting to my book of tricks.


Well that explains it. Id agree with the sniff test mentioned above. If it smells fine pitch it. Good luck
 
Well that explains it. Id agree with the sniff test mentioned above. If it smells fine pitch it. Good luck

As someone else said, I suspect the bad smell from the samples may have been oxidation. The new one liter samples will receive no shaking or anything of the sort, so I'm hopeful at least one will come out alright. Sample A had a bunch of gelatinous material when decanted, and B had some as well, but C seemed clear and happy, so I'm hopeful for it. For now, they're all fermenting well. Lots of yeast rafts floating in the first two, while the yeast is all either hugging the kraeusen or sitting at the bottom of the third.

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Nothing conclusive yet - I plan on letting these go for a couple weeks like any other beer - but I think sample C is likely a goner. It was the first to develop a kraeusen and the first to drop, and there's white mold growing in spots on the surface of the beer. For mold to be growing, I suspect something caused the yeast to drop out and quit early so the ABV is low enough to allow mold to propogate.

A and B are both sporting a couple centimeters of kraeusen and seem a bit more promising at the moment - there's still yeast banging around just beneath the kraeusen on both of them. However, both samples had some slime when they were transferred into the bottles I'm using to ferment them, so I'm still pretty suspicious that we'll be seeing pellicles forming when the kraeusen drops. Who knows, though? Maybe they develop pellicles and get a great boost from the bugs and make a better beer than I could have made with the Dupont yeast alone. Time will tell.

No pics now - maybe when I get home.
 
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