De-Gassing

[codyfree]

Just wanted to share my method of degassing. I take a winesaver hand vacuum pump and fit a airlock onto the mount. i thicken the airlock with electrical tape, then when its steated into the vacuum end, i give it a liberal wrapping with electrical tape. Now all you have to do is push it into a bung and not go over crazy with the pumping.


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[DoctorCAD]

And soon, you will have Popeye forearms!

 

[codyfree]

Ive heard alot of people say that, and honestly its not that bad. Ill give it a couple pumps when i think about it. Ever few hours or so


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[calmingapple]

Hi codyfree,

Thanks for sharing the info. I am currently making wine in small batches (one gallon size) and have just been using a long handled spoon, which is already starting to get old.

I have an Amazon gift card I need to use soon and wanted to know if I was looking at the correct wine vacuum pump for the job:

http://www.amazon.ca/dp/B00004SAF4/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Thanks!

Just wanted to share my method of degassing. I take a winesaver hand vacuum pump and fit a airlock onto the mount. i thicken the airlock with electrical tape, then when its steated into the vacuum end, i give it a liberal wrapping with electrical tape. Now all you have to do is push it into a bung and not go over crazy with the pumping.


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[codyfree]

It seems very similar. I looked through amazon and couldn't find my exact model. So its the same concept but may have to be mod'ed different


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[calmingapple]

Thanks for clarifying. I don't want to buy the wrong thing. If you obtain a photo of your vacuum thingy, I'd love to see it.

Thanks!

It seems very similar. I looked through amazon and couldn't find my exact model. So its the same concept but may have to be mod'ed different


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[DoctorCAD]

Thanks for clarifying. I don't want to buy the wrong thing. If you obtain a photo of your vacuum thingy, I'd love to see it.

Thanks!

Lots of people opt for the brake bleeder hand pump from Harbor Freight. I would think any auto parts store would have one, Mity Vac is the non generic name.

 

[vNmd]

Mityvac does a good job, but there is still a lot of pumping.

 

[cernst151]

I tried a few things, including the recommended drill mounted stirrer that was useless, before discovering that the pump for my Ziploc vacuum bags fits the bung hole of my 6 gallon carboy perfectly.
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Ziploc-Vacuum-Starter-Kit-1-kt/12443047

It's cheap and easy, though it is still a hand pump so it takes a little work, and I can use it to preserve food or hops. When you're using a vacuum pump, regardless of whether it's this one or the Mityvac you'll get much faster results with less head space.

 

[bernardsmith]

Time and patience are powerful de-gassers. If you really find that you need to de-gas it may be that you are trying to bottle too soon. So perhaps the most effective degasser is another carboy - to allow you to ferment a new batch while you bulk age the previous one a few months longer...

 

[calmingapple]

I'd like to add my two cents here by saying that the reason why it took me so long to attempt my first wine was the intimidating factor of all these gadgets and tools that seemed to be required to do the job RIGHT.

I have already spent a good chunk of change on winemaking tools & accessories and I STILL feel like a few things are missing.

I think it is good to divide tools & gear into two categories:

Beginner Friendly, Simple yet Effective, Low Cost Option = Gets the job done but might be laborious and time consuming
Nice to have, Middle to high cost option = Zero hassle, job done in no time, little labor involved

So, as of right now, I am with Bernard on this. If degassing can be handled naturally and without little involvement... I might as well go this route, especially as a beginner and maybe I don't have the gear I need anyway. Might as well move on to another batch and keep busy, wait until the other one is ready

Side note: I've been degassing my one gallon batch with a long handled spoon (handle portion in the wine) with lots of vigorous mixing. Seems to have worked well (some overflowing though, yes) for what I needed. I also have a super long mixing spoon for when I want to give a 5 gallon batch a go. This is recommended in Terry Garey's Wine making book. But I see there are numerous ways to approach this task.

Time and patience are powerful de-gassers. If you really find that you need to de-gas it may be that you are trying to bottle too soon. So perhaps the most effective degasser is another carboy - to allow you to ferment a new batch while you bulk age the previous one a few months longer...

 

[bernardsmith]

I'd like to add my two cents here by saying that the reason why it took me so long to attempt my first wine was the intimidating factor of all these gadgets and tools that seemed to be required to do the job RIGHT.

I have already spent a good chunk of change on winemaking tools & accessories and I STILL feel like a few things are missing.

I think it is good to divide tools & gear into two categories:

Beginner Friendly, Simple yet Effective, Low Cost Option = Gets the job done but might be laborious and time consuming
Nice to have, Middle to high cost option = Zero hassle, job done in no time, little labor involved

One of the best wine making books I have come across aimed at beginners is by Drew Beechum - The Everything Hard Cider Book. The book is good because it starts off by showing you how little equipment you really need to make "wine" and I use quotation marks because his focus is on cider but making cider and making wine involves essentially the same principles and the same science and the same art. Equipment enables you to solve specific problems but the beginner needs to solve very basic problems and having a great tool kit will not result in that beginner making better (or even good) wine. Using good ingredients with very basic equipment WILL result in better wine (or cider), and so the issue is then how to make the best wine (or cider or mead or whatever) using the equipment you have.

 

[calmingapple]

Sounds like a good book, bernard. I will add that one to my list of books to hunt down.

Side thought: It was the simplicity of cider that finally got me to try my hand at DIY wine & cider. I have yet to make true cider - but I've got two apples wines underway now

Cheers!

One of the best wine making books I have come across aimed at beginners is by Drew Beechum - The Everything Hard Cider Book. The book is good because it starts off by showing you how little equipment you really need to make "wine" and I use quotation marks because his focus is on cider but making cider and making wine involves essentially the same principles and the same science and the same art. Equipment enables you to solve specific problems but the beginner needs to solve very basic problems and having a great tool kit will not result in that beginner making better (or even good) wine. Using good ingredients with very basic equipment WILL result in better wine (or cider), and so the issue is then how to make the best wine (or cider or mead or whatever) using the equipment you have.

 

[brottman]

Maybe I've been doing it all wrong. I've been using the drill-mounted stir stick for the two kits I've done so far. Is it better to use a vacuum pump? FYI I have had my carboys overflow and now I'm worried about oxidization from being too vigorous. Serious question: Am I doing it wrong?

 

[codyfree]

Theres no right or wring way. Well, pouring it on the ground would be wrong but i digress. I find a vacuum pump easier. But if your wine/beers/ciders/whatever are very foamy. You will find how many pumps will cause i What i call a carbonation break, it will foam like crazy the die back down. Its all in your personal preference


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[Yooper]

Time and patience are powerful de-gassers. If you really find that you need to de-gas it may be that you are trying to bottle too soon. So perhaps the most effective degasser is another carboy - to allow you to ferment a new batch while you bulk age the previous one a few months longer...

I was thinking about this. In the last 25+ years, aside from wine kits which are often degassed, I've had exactly ONE batch of wine that needed and benefitted from degassing.

One, out of maybe, I dunno, 500(?). Sure, sometimes degassing can hurry a batch along to a bottle but there are some risks like oxidation, especially when no added sulfites are used, that I can't see being a positive thing.

 

[codyfree]

Not to argue. But wouldn't vacuum aided degassing be far less dangerous of oxidation, since the air is pulled out.


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[Yooper]

Maybe I've been doing it all wrong. I've been using the drill-mounted stir stick for the two kits I've done so far. Is it better to use a vacuum pump? FYI I have had my carboys overflow and now I'm worried about oxidization from being too vigorous. Serious question: Am I doing it wrong?

For kits that I want to bottle per the directions, I also use a stir stick on my drill, but for the first dozen or so I just shook/stirred.

The vacuum pumps are definitely labor saving in kit making, but it's not a big deal to me to use the stirrer and my drill for 15 minutes either. The kit I have going now is an expensive premium kit, and I haven't degassed it at all- it's just bulk aging in the carboy and it is gas-free and can be bottled.

Age and time are wonderful natural degassers.

 

[codyfree]

Yes i agree, i just love to see a pretty clear carboy full of my time and labor. I still let it set and bulk age. Would degassing hurt it in anyway? I understand it seems pointless but harmful?


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[Yooper]

Yes i agree, i just love to see a pretty clear carboy full of my time and labor. I still let it set and bulk age. Would degassing hurt it in anyway? I understand it seems pointless but harmful?


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Only if it wasn't properly sulfited and had a chance for oxygen uptake and got oxidized.

 

[codyfree]

I meant through vacuum. I can't fathom oxygen getting into a vacuum that will fill with CO2


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[Yooper]

Yes i agree, i just love to see a pretty clear carboy full of my time and labor. I still let it set and bulk age. Would degassing hurt it in anyway? I understand it seems pointless but harmful?


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Not to argue. But wouldn't vacuum aided degassing be far less dangerous of oxidation, since the air is pulled out.


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Well, the co2 is pulled out. But when it's replaced, what gas would replace it? I mean, you still have the Ideal Gas Law and the laws of physics to deal with. It's not like you're leaving the wine in a vacuum- you still will have an airlock and gas exchange after the degassing. During the degassing, as the co2 is stirred out, and it's really foaming, you won't get much gas exchange but once that slows down, you definitely would.

 

[codyfree]

I never thought of that. Thanks for opening my eyes yooper. I didn't take into account the time afterwards. But i still think it seems better them whipping it with a drill


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[Yooper]

I never thought of that. Thanks for opening my eyes yooper. I didn't take into account the time afterwards. But i still think it seems better them whipping it with a drill


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Yes- but...............like I said I've had to degas ONCE in 25+ years in a homemade wine. It's not like I whip wines with a drill routinely, as that's maybe one out of 500. I would never routinely degas a finished wine, and then let it sit.

Kit wines are different, as they are rushed to the bottle, but sulfites are added at degassing, to be an antioxidant during that time and keeping oxygen from binding with the wine as S02 is bound to it instead, and then the wine is bottled shortly thereafter (and sulfited again) to protect it.

 

[codyfree]

Okay, soooooo. If i sulfite and vacuum i might be fine?


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[Yooper]

Okay, soooooo. If i sulfite and vacuum i might be fine?


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Maybe. I really don't know. The way sulfite works is that it binds to the wine, temporarily, so that oxygen can't. It does dissipate, and that is why it's periodically re-added, but you'd really need to keep the sulfite at 50 ppm or thereabouts to ensure minimal oxygen uptake. If you don't have an S02 meter, then it'd be a wild guess as to how much to add and when.

 

[bernardsmith]

My 1.5 cents: Strikes me that the idea of degassing comes from kit manufacturers. They have a special interest in wanting you to degas: If you routinely allow your wine to age in the carboy and allow the wine to degas by itself over time you are less likely to return to the store to purchase another kit because you are not likely to have an empty carboy in which to ferment the next kit. Quite simply, their bottom line depends on customers quickly emptying their carboys.

 

[brottman]

Yooper - once fermentation is complete, do you just stir in KMeta and then let it sit to degas? Just curious of your personal technique.

 

[Yooper]

Yooper - once fermentation is complete, do you just stir in KMeta and then let it sit to degas? Just curious of your personal technique.

No. I have degassed one time in 25+ years, aside from kit wines (then I just do as the directions say).

I stir often during primary, of course, to stir down the cap and resubmerge the fruit, but I've only degassed one traditional wine out of 500+ batches so I have no "technique".

Racking a couple of times throughout the life of the wine does all the work. I use sulfites at every other racking. I rack when lees are 1/4" thick, or when there are any lees at all after 60 days. The wine mixes with the sulfite solution in the carboy- I never stir it in. I add the sulfite solution to the carboy and rack the wine into that carboy. That does it, and I never have a gassy wine when I go to bottle it.