Cyser Starting Gravity

[beer-me-now]

Made a rookie mistake and completely forgot to measure my starting gravity on my first ever Cyser. I have made several ciders, meads and beers, this was just a space out moment on my part.

Recipe was simply 1 pound honey in 1 gallon apple juice.

I know the apple juice that I always use for regular cider is consistently 1.052 and I understand that on average 1 pound of honey increases gravity 37 points.

To make an educated guess on my SG would I just add it up? This would equal 1.089 right, or am I missing something?

 

[Maylar]

Yep. Though I usually use 35 points per pound per gallon for honey.

 

[bmd2k1]

Yep. Though I usually use 35 points per pound per gallon for honey.

Curious...How does a cyser taste different than a straight cider jacked up with FAJC (equal OGs)?

 

[Blacksmith1]

Honey coated apple? I'm guessing as my first cyser experiment has other fruit in it and is still in primary

 

[Maylar]

Curious...How does a cyser taste different than a straight cider jacked up with FAJC (equal OGs)?

Umm... honey. Apples and honey fermented together. I usually split the sugar between them (50 points each) and end up with 13%. Yummy.

 

[bmd2k1]

Umm... honey. Apples and honey fermented together. I usually split the sugar between them (50 points each) and end up with 13%. Yummy.

Sounds like I need to fire up my first cyser & try it for myself. What FG do ya typically shoot for? [emoji16]

Cheers [emoji111]

 

[Maylar]

They always go dry. Back sweetened if needed with either honey or FAJC depending on which one dominates the taste. Usually 1.005 is enough to take the sour edge off.
I just finished off a cyser that I started in November with D47. I had some spices in it (clove and nutmeg) but honestly it was better without them. I keg my cysers and serve cold like cider, and they're potent.

Need to make another batch.

 

[beer-me-now]

Thanks everyone! So I'm looking at about 10% then - no complaints here!

 

[bmd2k1]

What's everyone's fav cyser recipe? # Gals cider, type & lbs honey, yeast, add-ons, typical OG & FG?? [emoji16]

 

[MarkKF]

Sounds like I need to fire up my first cyser & try it for myself. What FG do ya typically shoot for? [emoji16]

Cheers [emoji111]

Starting? Just over 1.100

 

[Maylar]

What's everyone's fav cyser recipe? # Gals cider, type & lbs honey, yeast, add-ons, typical OG & FG?? [emoji16]

Haven't dialed in a perfect one yet. I always use orchard cider - I buy a couple extra gallons when I get my fall cider. I've used clover and wildflower honeys so far and 71B, Cote des Blancs, and D47. The best one so far was with the D47 and wildflower.

OG usually 1.100, with 1.050 cider and 50 points of honey (about 1.5 lbs per gallon). I use the SNA protocol like with a mead. They always finish dry.

I have some nice orange blossom honey that I want to try next. But the local orchards are closed until spring, so I gotta dig up some cider somewhere. Will probably need acid and oak or tannin.

 

[Jako]

What's everyone's fav cyser recipe? # Gals cider, type & lbs honey, yeast, add-ons, typical OG & FG?? [emoji16]

i used sweet mead yeast and 8 pounds of honey.... too much... once it aged it was so sweet i had to add tons of ice to take it down a notch but man it was good! after the ice...

this time i used 3 pounds but its fermenting i also added blueberries so it wont be the best to compare. also using Pub yeast from imperial

i would shoot for 3-4% below the yest max abv.

 

[GeneDaniels1963]

Curious...How does a cyser taste different than a straight cider jacked up with FAJC (equal OGs)?

I only made a cyser one time. It was good, difference from cider with FAJC, but good. I can't say exactly how. Nevertheless, it was not spectacular, nor great enough that I will make it again soon.

 

[Maylar]

Cyser is a mead with apples, it's not a cider with honey. Totally different process and protocols required.

 

[GeneDaniels1963]

Cyser is a mead with apples, it's not a cider with honey. Totally different process and protocols required.

At what point does it shift from one to the other? What if it is 50/50 on fermentables?

 

[bmd2k1]

Cyser is a mead with apples, it's not a cider with honey. Totally different process and protocols required.

What's your typical recipe & protocol for making a cyser?

 

[Maylar]

At what point does it shift from one to the other? What if it is 50/50 on fermentables?

That's a good question really. According to BJCP competition rules, to be a "mead" it needs to have at least 50% of the fermentable sugars from honey.

A good example comes to mind. There's a meadery / cidery in Michigan called B. Nektar that sells a cider called Zombie Killer. It's a 5.5% cider sweetened with tart cherries and star thistle honey. The current label looks like this:

But when it first came out (and they won gold at the Mazer Cup) it was a 7% cyser sweetened with tart cherries:

 

[Maylar]

What's your typical recipe & protocol for making a cyser?

Mine have been orchard cider with enough honey to get 1.100 OG. I treat it like a mead using TOSNA protocol, though with a bit less nutrients because apples have a little. Still experimenting looking for the best post-ferment treatments. The last one I submitted to a comp and the judges said not enough honey character, so I'm gonna start sweetening with honey instead of FAJC. I have one in process now that I hope to have ready for a comp in May.

Have you had the Zombie Killer? There was a clone attempt here on HBT but nobody could get it just right. I'd like to try (hint hint).

 

[bmd2k1]

Mine have been orchard cider with enough honey to get 1.100 OG. I treat it like a mead using TOSNA protocol, though with a bit less nutrients because apples have a little. Still experimenting looking for the best post-ferment treatments. The last one I submitted to a comp and the judges said not enough honey character, so I'm gonna start sweetening with honey instead of FAJC. I have one in process now that I hope to have ready for a comp in May.

Have you had the Zombie Killer? There was a clone attempt here on HBT but nobody could get it just right. I'd like to try (hint hint).

I haven't had it yet - place is close by & plan to hit it this spring/summer [emoji111]

 

[ten80]

I've been struggling with my cysers attenuating to 1.004 or lower, too dry to retain much honey character. I've done gravities up to about 1.110. Any higher gravity with honey and the apple flavor can be overpowered by the honey sweetness. It's a delicate balance.

 

[Maylar]

I've been struggling with my cysers attenuating to 1.004 or lower, too dry to retain much honey character. I've done gravities up to about 1.110. Any higher gravity with honey and the apple flavor can be overpowered by the honey sweetness. It's a delicate balance.

It is indeed a delicate balance. A traditional mead is usually tart and lacking honey character when fermented dry, and cider even more so. I find that the cider element is more prevalent than the honey in my cysers so adding honey post ferment can bring that back. The BJCP rules on cyser is that both honey and apple need to be evident in both aroma and taste though one can be more prevalent than the other.

 

[bmd2k1]

I'm curious -- do different types of sugars get fermented at different rates -- or is yeast indiscriminate?

 

[ten80]

I'm curious -- do different types of sugars get fermented at different rates -- or is yeast indiscriminate?

Yes and no. But in the case of cider and honey, the yeast can easily ferment out either the fructose in apples or the fructose, glucose, and other simple sugars in honey. In that regard, cider and honey are very similar. The main difference in fermentation profiles comes down to nutrient content, particularly free amino nitrogen (FAN), of which apples have generally low levels and honey is largely devoid.

Yeast slow down a little when fermenting dissaccharides and polysaccharides as found in beer (maltose, maltotriose, ect.). The type of bondb between monosaccharides in the di or polysaccharides also matters in beer (1-4 vs 1-6), but I digress.

 

[MiBeerMan]

Maylar, have you been to that B Nektar? I live about 3.5 hrs in northern Michigan so it may be awhile but looking at their website they have a lot to chose from. I wanna try that ananazi. It's the orange blossom mead aged in bourbon barrels

 

[Maylar]

Maylar, have you been to that B Nektar? I live about 3.5 hrs in northern Michigan so it may be awhile but looking at their website they have a lot to chose from. I wanna try that ananazi. It's the orange blossom mead aged in bourbon barrels

Nope. Unfortunately their stuff isn't available here in Ct.

 

[bmd2k1]

Any regular cyser maker's out there?

Curious to hear from ya on ur fav recipe, yeast, techinques/tips.

Wondering out loud how the end product differs from the faux ice cider I make -- which is awesome!

Cheers [emoji111]

 

[Jako]

Any regular cyser maker's out there?

Curious to hear from ya on ur fav recipe, yeast, techinques/tips.

Wondering out loud how the end product differs from the faux ice cider I make -- which is awesome!

Cheers [emoji111]

I made one that I eneter in as a fruit cider had 5 pounds of honey and 5 pounds of blueberries.

I scored a 42 and got silver this year in a local competition

 

[Jako]

Sigh i lost everything i was typing.

For me i could be very wrong. but i normally use all apple juice then about 1 pound of honey per gallon of apple juice. i used Pub imperial yeast for my Bluberry "cyser" i was shooting for about 12% abv and the yeast quit at 10% this left me with a perfectly sweet cyser. i used 5 pounds in the primary then added 4OZ of BSG blueberry concentrate.

let me see if i can find pictures because it was amazing.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/gRSSgSuFKNkSZ8JK8

 

[Jako]

I'm all fired up now wanting to play with the mead I am working on right now and add some fruit or something exciting. But I will just plan to make something great with my next cider.

 

[GeneDaniels1963]

Personally I have found that apple juice is a better canvas, than honey, on which to play with different fruits and flavors. I have tried 2 or 3 different meads, none were great.

But I have had lots of success playing flavors into cider. I've used blueberry, blackberry, raspberry, malt (graff), and herbs (Gruuit). All of them have turned out well. And adding fruits can really help overcome the lack of complexity that comes from cider made from store bought apple juice.

 

[Steinaken]

What's the best yeast type for brewing a cyser? I've tried larger yest and wine yeast so far - the larger yeast had a beery flavour, the wine left a bread aftertaste, and both went dry (1.004 and 0.998 respectively) - is it worth trying a different beer yeast? Maybe an ale yeast?

 

[Blacksmith1]

There are as many opinions on the as there are brewers X yeasts. My personal favorite is Safale S 05. Does well in warmer ferments and eats all the sugar. Which all the brew yeasts will do.
If you had a "bready" flavor, you most likely had yeast still floating around in your brew.

 

[GeneDaniels1963]

Safale 5 is good, I prefer Nottingham. Both are very "clean" tasting yeasts, i.e. they do not impart much flavor of their own. I don't think there is any noticable taste to either of them.

Some beer yeasts have strong flavors, and are used specifically for that purpose. So probably avoid anything like that.

 

[AzOr]

Any regular cyser maker's out there?

Curious to hear from ya on ur fav recipe, yeast, techinques/tips.

Wondering out loud how the end product differs from the faux ice cider I make -- which is awesome!

Cheers [emoji111]

I started using the Schramm recipe.
Now I Ike to split the sugars. For example, in a 5 gallon batch I’ll use 4g of juice, 1g of water and honey to about 1.100. For that recipe I definitely age for at least a year on oak cubes.
I find that with higher gravities, I don’t need to back sweeten. Even though the fg is around 1.000. The high alcohol lends a perceived sweetness.
If I make one w a og of less than 1.080, I’ll carbonate and maybe backsweeten.
I’ve been gravitating toward d-47 for bigger cysers but will stick with Mangrove Jacks yeast for smaller cysers.
This year I have one in carboy with d47. For that I used 2g of bitter juice and 2g of sharps (Gravensteins).

 

[Jako]

What's the best yeast type for brewing a cyser? I've tried larger yest and wine yeast so far - the larger yeast had a beery flavour, the wine left a bread aftertaste, and both went dry (1.004 and 0.998 respectively) - is it worth trying a different beer yeast? Maybe an ale yeast?

Imperial bubbles was awesome I love it! Its seasonal thought. I'm about to start up a second batch with mine.