Crystal malts and fermentable sugars

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oxonbrew

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Hi All,

I've been reading a few different posts and things on the internet and I've gotten a bit confused.

If I add crystal malt to my grain bill will the extracted sugar be converted into alcohol? or do I just get extra residual sugars after fermentation???

Cheers!
 
Some of the sugars will be fermentable and some will not. I've always heard that lighter crystal (say 20L vs 120L) will be slightly more fermentable. However I have not personally done any testing to see the actual % breakdowns.

For the most part though, crystal is used mostly for taste (sweet / roasty / etc etc depending on Lovibond)
 
Thanks for both replies - really useful and a great thread by nilo.

Cheers!
 
Thanks for both replies - really useful and a great thread by nilo.

Cheers!

Agreed, excellent thread by nilo. Took awhile to get through all 15 pages, but well worth it. Thanks for the link chickypad.
Since I started Partial mashes with my 2nd batch, I've included the crystals in the mash because it was just easier that way. Now I know that there's a benefit too.
 
If I understand things correctly, crystal/roasted malts do not need to be mashed because the starches have already been converted to sugars during kilning. This is why you can just steep crystal malts when doing extract batches. That said, some percentage of the sugars are fermentable. Perhaps this leads to some confusion.

We tend to mash them for convenience, I think. However, they also affect mash pH. This is why sometimes you'll hear people suggest keeping roasted/crystal malt out of the mash.
 
mjohnson said:
If I understand things correctly, crystal/roasted malts do not need to be mashed because the starches have already been converted to sugars during kilning. This is why you can just steep crystal malts when doing extract batches. That said, some percentage of the sugars are fermentable. Perhaps this leads to some confusion.

We tend to mash them for convenience, I think. However, they also affect mash pH. This is why sometimes you'll hear people suggest keeping roasted/crystal malt out of the mash.

It's not that the starches have already been converted. The kilning process kills the enzymes that do the conversion. So the only way to extract sugar is to mash them with a base malt that still has the enzymes. If you steep these crystal or roasted malts on their own you will only get flavor, aroma and color. Still beneficial, but not fermentable.
 
It's not that the starches have already been converted. The kilning process kills the enzymes that do the conversion. So the only way to extract sugar is to mash them with a base malt that still has the enzymes. If you steep these crystal or roasted malts on their own you will only get flavor, aroma and color. Still beneficial, but not fermentable.

I think you are wrong. But I also think I was wrong.

The kilning process does not convert the starches in crystal malts to sugars, as I said. According to How To Brew, crystal malts undergo a heating process during their malting that allow the enzymes in the grain to convert the starches into sugars. The kilning process caramelizes those sugars. Thats what give them color and makes it so they don't have to be mashed.

If, as you say, there were starches in the crystal malts, you wouldn't want to steep them - as they would produce a starchy beer.

In the end, there isn't any conversion of crystal malts happening in the mash.

From how to brew:
Besides the lighter-colored base and toasted malts, there is another group of malts that don't need to be mashed and these are often referred to as "specialty malts". They are used for flavoring and have no diastatic power whatsoever. Some of these malts have undergone special heating processes in which the starches are converted to sugars by heat and moisture right inside the hull. As a result, these malts contain more complex sugars, some of which do not ferment, leaving a pleasant caramel-like sweetness. These pre-converted malts (called caramel or crystal malts) are available in different roasts or colors (denoted by the color unit Lovibond), each having a different degree of fermentability and characteristic sweetness (e.g. Crystal 40, Crystal 60). Also within the specialty malt group are the roasted malts. These malts have had their sugars charred by roasting at high temperatures, giving them a deep red/brown or black color (e.g. Black Patent malt). The Lovibond color scale ranges from 1 to 600. See Figure 70. To put this in perspective, most American mega-brewed light lager beers are less than 5 Lovibond. Guinness Extra Stout on the other hand, is comfortably in the 100s. Specialty malts do not need to be mashed, and can simply be steeped in hot water to release their character. These grains are very useful to the extract brewer, making it easy to increase the complexity of the wort without much effort.
 
In the end, there isn't any conversion of crystal malts happening in the mash.

That's the conventional wisdom but if you read through nilo's experiment he did show there are unconverted starches in crystal malts and you do get more conversion and yield with mashing vs. steeping (especially lower lovibond malts).
 
It's not that the starches have already been converted. The kilning process kills the enzymes that do the conversion. So the only way to extract sugar is to mash them with a base malt that still has the enzymes. If you steep these crystal or roasted malts on their own you will only get flavor, aroma and color. Still beneficial, but not fermentable.

That's incorrect. The way crystal malt is processed is that it's "premashed" so to speak, so you can get the sugars out of them by steeping or in the mash. They do contribute fermentable sugars, in either a mash or a steep. Not a ton, but certainly some and they have a degree of fermentability. You get a bit more out of them in a mash, but they can be used either way.

Here's a good write up of the way crystal malt is made: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/index.php/Crystal_malt
 
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