Fawcett Dark Crystal Malt

[Hoochin'Fool]

It's supposedly 81 to 90 Lovibond. Would this be good in a porter as the only "crystal/caramel" malt, at say 5 or 6% of the malt bill? I've got a pound of it.
I also have a pound of Briess victory malt (I really need to stop using Ritebrew's grain-selector when I've had a few), could that go into a porter as well? Is that going to add any extra sweetness (like I should back off on the dark crystal malt if used in same batch)?

 

[IslandLizard]

[Fawcett Dark Crystal Malt] It's supposedly 81 to 90 Lovibond. Would this be good in a porter as the only "crystal/caramel" malt, at say 5 or 6% of the malt bill?

Yes, darker crystal malt are good/needed in a Porter, as low as 6%, up to about 10-12%.

I also have a pound of Briess victory malt (I really need to stop using Ritebrew's grain-selector when I've had a few), could that go into a porter as well? Is that going to add any extra sweetness (like I should back off on the dark crystal malt if used in same batch)?

Adds some sweetness, but mostly toasty maltiness, graham cracker-like. Victory and Caramel/Crystal malts can go together in a Porter, and I'd stick to the maximum of 10-12% total though.

You do need Chocolate malt too, you got any of that?

I'd look at a clone recipe of Black Butte or some other "famous" Porter you like for ideas and percentages. Some can be quite roasty, bordering Stouts.

 

[balrog]

Most recipes have some (1/2 pound) of chocolate and/or brown malt as well, but only use the 45L medium crystal, so I would use a calc to see if the finish SRM is anywhere close but I think you'd want some chocolate, or pale chocolate or midnight wheat or something to up the roast/dark.

I have always liked reading up in BYO for a particular style, like Josh Weikert's "make your best" articles, as nice jump off points. Here's a link to his porter (which he suggests rye and smoked malt - not for me thanks).

Annnnnnd @IslandLizard beats me to the punch.

 

[balrog]

And by the way, I have often done exactly what you mention on the quick select page of Ritebrew.'

And also, I use the TF Dark Crystal in my altbier and love it.

 

[AlexKay]

Most recipes have some (1/2 pound) of chocolate and/or brown malt as well, but only use the 45L medium crystal, so I would use a calc to see if the finish SRM is anywhere close but I think you'd want some chocolate, or pale chocolate or midnight wheat or something to up the roast/dark.

I have always liked reading up in BYO for a particular style, like Josh Weikert's "make your best" articles, as nice jump off points. Here's a link to his porter (which he suggests rye and smoked malt - not for me thanks).

Annnnnnd @IslandLizard beats me to the punch.

Weikert suggests chocolate rye, which is just wonderful stuff and makes a superb porter; even if you don't like rye, chocolate rye is worth trying out. But I'm with you on the smoke, sort of -- I'm happy to have a smoked porter, but my regular porter shouldn't have smoke in it.

 

[Hoochin'Fool]

You do need Chocolate malt too, you got any of that?

I've got a bunch of dark/roasted malts!
Fawcett Pale Chocolate (180L), Bairds Roast Barley (550L), and, from Briess: Chocolate (350L), Black Malt (500L), BlackPrinz (500L), and MidnightWheat (550L)

 

[Hoochin'Fool]

And by the way, I have often done exactly what you mention on the quick select page of Ritebrew.'

And also, I use the TF Dark Crystal in my altbier and love it.

I think it's probably for the best that NB and MB don't have anything as nice as Ritebrew's quick-grain-selector, otherwise I'd have dozens more small bags of interesting malts just slowly aging in the pantry.

 

[PCABrewing]

I think it's probably for the best that NB and MB don't have anything as nice as Ritebrew's quick-grain-selector, otherwise I'd have dozens more small bags of interesting malts just slowly aging in the pantry.

Guilty!
But my habit is bad enough that I don't need a tool to help, I can do quite a bit of damage with a simple web page..
Just too curious about tastes for my own good!

 

[balrog]

FWIW and your tastes may differ but I do not like black patent at all as I find it only slightly more likable than licking an Egyptian funeral pyre pit. Slightly. Pale chocolate I like, and midnight wheat is also debitterrd.

 

[Hoochin'Fool]

I've been making a couple 2.5 gallon batches from a starting point of 90% base, 5% caramel 40L, and 5% black patent. Usually aim for 6% abv, BU/GU of 0.55 using magnum and kent goldings. Started adding a couple ounces of midnight wheat to get a better head on it, and have also experimented with cacao powder, with delicious results. But a friend who's palate is a lot like mine, tells me it could definitely "use a little something" (he knows what he likes, but not anything about malts or brewing). We both think it could use a touch of sweetness -- currently it is not at all sweet.

So anyways, I'm thinking maybe 5% victory, 5% fawcett dark crystal on the sweet side, balanced out on the roasty side by 5% black patent, 3% midnight wheat, and another 3 to 5% of something else that's not coffee flavored! I'm not averse to going with the Baird's 550L roasted barley, but, since I gotta go pick up some yeast anyways, maybe chocolate rye would be the perfect ingredient to round it out?

Alternatively, the dark crystal is described as having a slight roasty edge to it, maybe I don't need any extra dark malts?

I think what I really need is 10 one-gallon fermenters so I can test out lots more variables at the same time!

 

[IslandLizard]

I'm not averse to going with the Baird's 550L roasted barley,

Roasted barley has no business in a Porter. It belongs to Stouts.

But you do need one or 2 Chocolate Malts. I prefer to layer with a Pale Chocolate (200-250 °L) and a Chocolate malt (300-450 °L) or a Chocolate Wheat or BlackPrinz or a (dehusked) Carafa Special, or a mixture of 2 or 3 of those, all in the 300-450 °L range.

Some Brown Malt (45-80 °L) can be incorporated too.

 

[Hoochin'Fool]

But you do need one or 2 Chocolate Malts. I prefer to layer with a Pale Chocolate (200-250 °L) and a Chocolate malt (300-450 °L) or a Chocolate Wheat or BlackPrinz or a (dehusked) Carafa Special, or a mixture of 2 or 3 of those, all in the 300-450 °L range.

Am I reading that as "don't even bother with the black patent" correctly?

So if I was going with 4% victory, 6% Fawcett Dark Crystal, I probably want to go roughly another 10% dark malts? I realize there's no correct answer, but if I wanted to stay relatively true to an actual porter... Maybe 5% pale choc, 5% chocolate? Or a little less of the chocolates (coffee flavors really turn me off if they come thru too strong), and more of the midnite wheat (or blackprinz)? [and the remaining 80% would be plain old 2-row brewer's malt]

Sorry for all the dumb questions!

 

[Miraculix]

Roasted barley has no business in a Porter. It belongs to Stouts.

But you do need one or 2 Chocolate Malts. I prefer to layer with a Pale Chocolate (200-250 °L) and a Chocolate malt (300-450 °L) or a Chocolate Wheat or BlackPrinz or a (dehusked) Carafa Special, or a mixture of 2 or 3 of those, all in the 300-450 °L range.

Some Brown Malt (45-80 °L) can be incorporated too.

Sorry mate, but regarding the roasted barley, that's an urban myth. There is actually no distinction between stout and porter whatsoever. There was even a time of a stout porter, meaning strong porter.

 

[Hoochin'Fool]

I get that there's not really any official distinction between stout and porter, but to my mind, a porter has black patent (plus other dark malts), and a stout has roast barley (plus other dark malts). And they both can be delicious (and they both can use the other's key ingredient, just in lesser quantities).

 

[IslandLizard]

Am I reading that as "don't even bother with the black patent" correctly?

If you have it, sure you can use some Black Patent. Then decrease the (darkest) Chocolate malt (300-450L) somewhat. Layer those dark flavors to your taste bud's content.

I really like Chocolate Wheat (or Midnight Wheat), they're very smooth and rich tasting, with no astringency, partly due to wheat being huskless.

BlackPrinz is dehusked barley, similar to Carafa Special, which comes in 3 different Lovibond/color ranges. But not quite as smooth and rich as Chocolate Wheat or Midnight Wheat.

So if I was going with 4% victory, 6% Fawcett Dark Crystal, I probably want to go roughly another 10% dark malts? I realize there's no correct answer, but if I wanted to stay relatively true to an actual porter... Maybe 5% pale choc, 5% chocolate? Or a little less of the chocolates (coffee flavors really turn me off if they come thru too strong), and more of the midnite wheat

Sounds like a good plan!
Lean toward Chocolate Wheat or Midnight Wheat whatever you can get, for smoothness, over using BlackPrinz (which is dehusked barley).

Chocolate Malt doesn't have strong coffee flavors, at least to me, or they're very subdued.
In an effort to prevent those dreaded cooked coffee flavors I have been steeping all dark (roasted) malts on the side, outside the mash and boil, in around 140-150F water. Then add the black potion at the end of the boil, or even better, after chilling somewhat, when the wort is around 160-170F. Then leave for 5-10 minutes at that temp to pasteurize, before chilling down to ferm temps. Yummm!

Look in our recipe database at Porter recipes for inspiration or recipe ideas. Also for hops to use. Many ways to make good Porters. They're very forgiving and hard to screw up.

 

[IslandLizard]

edit: check out that spiffy new "hbt supporter" swag!

Oh yeah! Thank you for becoming a supporting member, enjoy the privileges (e.g., you can turn most, if not all, of the ads off). Much quieter browsing and reading.

 

[Miraculix]

I get that there's not really any official distinction between stout and porter, but to my mind, a porter has black patent (plus other dark malts), and a stout has roast barley (plus other dark malts). And they both can be delicious (and they both can use the other's key ingredient, just in lesser quantities).

Yes, but that's only in your head.... And stomach too, hopefully .

If you trace both back historically, there's first a distinction, stout meaning strong and porter indicating a dark beer. Afterwards this all started to change and both were used for dark beer. Afterwards, it seems like Americans came and started to tell everybody up until today that a porter means this and a stout means that. But then there are people from the UK like Ron Pattinson who seem to disagree with that.

 

[Hoochin'Fool]

Thanks for your guidance, @IslandLizard! I've tried a number of different things in my pursuit of an amazing SMOOVE dark/malty beer, whether you call it a porter OR a stout -- from cold steeping (too muted, imho) to more dehusked malts (and being sure to skim off any husk floaties while bringing to boil).

I've actually got a "porter" that I just bottled a few days ago, which was roughly: 5% cara40, 5% patent, 3% chocolate, 3% light chocolate, 2% midnite wheat. This should narrow down a couple of variables in my recipe, so I should probably forget about a next brew until at least the end of next week, when I might have some idea of that all melds together... (edit: and speaking of variables, this one actually froze because winters in Minnesota suck).

The problem is, I've got Wednesdays off, and really wanted to brew something

Yes, but that's only on your head.

Fair point! But for me, it's still a useful distinction, and I think I can usually taste it (patent vs roasted) in different porters and stouts that I like. Anyways, I definitely prefer a little less roast than the typical stout beer that can be found in the US, hence my pursuit of porters. That said, I'm a sucker for a good roasty imperial stout!

 

[Miraculix]

Thanks for your guidance, @IslandLizard! I've tried a number of different things in my pursuit of an amazing SMOOVE dark/malty beer, whether you call it a porter OR a stout -- from cold steeping (too muted, imho) to more dehusked malts (and being sure to skim off any husk floaties while bringing to boil).

I've actually got a "porter" that I just bottled a few days ago, which was roughly: 5% cara40, 5% patent, 3% chocolate, 3% light chocolate, 2% midnite wheat. This should narrow down a couple of variables in my recipe, so I should probably forget about a next brew until at least the end of next week, when I might have some idea of that all melds together... (edit: and speaking of variables, this one actually froze because winters in Minnesota suck).

The problem is, I've got Wednesdays off, and really wanted to brew something


Fair point! But for me, it's still a useful distinction, and I think I can usually taste it (patent vs roasted) in different porters and stouts that I like. Anyways, I definitely prefer a little less roast than the typical stout beer that can be found in the US, hence my pursuit of porters. That said, I'm a sucker for a good roasty imperial stout!

Yes, if everybody somehow agrees on the same mistakes, then it is useful for distinction.

I for myself don't like chocolate malt at all. Chocolate wheat is nice to me though, chocolate rye as well. Black malt is also fine. Roasted barley, big fan of it. Ten percent plus base malt is all a great stout needs. I'd probably never call this a porter, so there's the distinction even in my own head.

I've made a London 18th century inspired brown porter recently. Lots of brown (diastatic brown!) Malt, some carafa and chevallier malt. I'd never call this a stout.... So yeah.... There's this distinction in my head again. But technically, it's wrong .

 

[Hoochin'Fool]

[big snip] There's this distinction in my head again. But technically, it's wrong .

I regret that HBT won't let me "like", "love", and "haha" your post all in one go!

 

[AlexKay]

Switching out bog-standard American crystal for English dark crystal will go a long way. You could also look at Simpsons DRC, which is great stuff.

Or you could add a pound of Munich. Everything gets better with a pound of Munich.

 

[Miraculix]

Or you could use Simpsons imperial malt, if you can source it. I have not finished bottling the beer I brewed with it but the smell is spectacular. Really intense and really good.

 

[bellhp]

Could the missing ingredient you are looking for be Treacle (Molasses) ?

 

[Steveruch]

This turned out great.

 

[Dyke Busters]

Got me all excited then I realised I'd miss read the thread


https://www.limitedruns.com/original/movie-posters/fantasy/the-dark-crystal-1/