critique my next NE DIPA

[elburrogrande]

I plan on brewing this sometime soon. Just wondering if I should modify anything.

5 gallon batch
Target OG 1.077
Target FG 1.014
Target ABV 8.3

7.5 lbs Pale malt 2 row
2.25lbs German Pilsner
1.5lbs flaked wheat
1lb Flaked oats
1lb acid malt
1lb dextrin
.25lbs Crystal 15

.5oz Columbus FWH
1 oz Citra 5 minutes
1 oz exp 7270 whirlpool 20minutes
1 oz Mandarina Bavaria whirlpool 20minutes


double dry hop:

1.5oz Mandarina Bavaria dry hop 5 days
1.5oz exp 7270 dry hop 5 days

1.5oz Mandarina Bavaria dry hop 3 days
1.5oz exp 7270 dry hop 3 days

Mash @152

I am considering adding 2 oz of citra to dry hopping schedule. Any thoughts or suggestions?

 

[grassfeeder]

I would move the 5 minute Citra to the whirlpool as well....also, whirlpool at 170 degrees for 30 minutes. I'd also add more oz. of whirlpool hops.

a bit high on the acid malt?

 

[Ruckusz28]

Acid malt seems high. The rest of it seems good to go!

 

[elburrogrande]

acid malt is at 6.9% should I Bring it down to 5%? also forgot to add the yeast. I plan on using WLP007

 

[grassfeeder]

Why do you need the acid malt?

 

[Upthewazzu]

a pound of acid malt would be way out of style, IMO. Unless you're going for a hybrid-style beer or you absolutely need it to lower your mash ph i'd scrap it entirely. I'd also probably scrap the dextrin/carapils malt. the flaked oats will take care of body and head retention.

Also, instead of flaked wheat i'd go with a pound or two of white or red wheat malt.

 

[elburrogrande]

Why do you need the acid malt?

I use it to lower mash ph and adds slight tartness. I've used it successfully in past. Only reason

 

[elburrogrande]

a pound of acid malt would be way out of style, IMO. Unless you're going for a hybrid-style beer or you absolutely need it to lower your mash ph i'd scrap it entirely. I'd also probably scrap the dextrin/carapils malt. the flaked oats will take care of body and head retention.

Also, instead of flaked wheat i'd go with a pound or two of white or red wheat malt.

Ok I'm going to lower it to 10 oz. I'm on the fence about dextrin. But you have a good point. How about swapping it for sugar to maintain OG?

 

[Yooper]

Ok I'm going to lower it to 10 oz. I'm on the fence about dextrin. But you have a good point. How about swapping it for sugar to maintain OG?

Even 10 ounces of acid malt could make a significant (sour) flavor impact. If you like that, of course that's fine but I wanted to point that out.

The dextrine malt is totally out of place, and I would leave it out. You've got flaked grains for a creamy mouthfeel and body, and I like it without the acid malt and dextrine malt.

 

[OswaldvW]

I only use acid malt to adjust pH and find that for a 5 gallon (21 liter) batch I only need 2-4 ounces (30-60 g).

 

[Oldskewl]

I would lower the acid malt as well. Most reccommend 3-4%. I use it to lower my PH in my pale ales and IPAs. FWIW, the recipe I'm doing now will use 5oz in a 12lb grain bill to get me down to a PH of 5.3

 

[Yooper]

Getting to the proper pH is different for all of us- if I was going to use acid malt and my tap water, I'd need 10 ounces or more also to reach a pH of 5.3 in my mash.

The thing is, anything over about 3% has a flavor impact. That's fine if you want a tart/sour taste to the beer of course, but the reason most of the brewers are saying 3% or so is to avoid the flavor impact.

 

[elburrogrande]

Getting to the proper pH is different for all of us- if I was going to use acid malt and my tap water, I'd need 10 ounces or more also to reach a pH of 5.3 in my mash.

The thing is, anything over about 3% has a flavor impact. That's fine if you want a tart/sour taste to the beer of course, but the reason most of the brewers are saying 3% or so is to avoid the flavor impact.

Thanks everyone for the input. at 10oz it puts it at 4.3% of the bill. I want something fruity and juicy so I am ok with a slightly perceived tartness. This is what I have so far:

6.5lbs Pale malt 2 row 44.4%
3.75lbs German Pilsner 25.6%
1.75lbs flaked wheat 12%
1lb Flaked oats 6.85
12oz sugar 5.1%
10oz acid malt 4.3%
.25lbs Crystal 15 1.7%

 

[tagz]

I would run your water through a calc instead of guessing on the acid malt. Mash pH is a pretty critical component of a beer. I would give as much thought to your water as you do the grain bill.

 

[grassfeeder]

I'd use some calcium chloride to get your mash ph in order. that much acid malt is going to kill that beer for what you're going for.

 

[Menhir]

I second the suggestion to test your water. If you are on city water you could try contacting your utility for the info.

 

[elburrogrande]

Thanks folks, Ill be stopping by the LHBS after work. This is what I have

5 gallon batch
Target OG 1.077
Target FG 1.014
Target ABV 8.3

6.75 lbs Pale malt 2 row 44.6%
4lbs German Pilsner 26.4%
1lbs white wheat 6.6%
1lb Flaked oats 6.6%
1lb Flaked wheat 6.6%
12oz corn sugar 5%
6oz acid malt 2.5%
.25lbs Crystal 15 1.7%

.5oz Columbus FWH
1 oz Citra Whirlpool 20 minutes
1 oz exp 7270 whirlpool 20minutes
1 oz Mandarina Bavaria whirlpool 20minutes

yeast: wl007


double dry hop:

1.5oz Mandarina Bavaria dry hop 5 days
1.5oz exp 7270 dry hop 5 days
.5 Citra dry hop 5 days

1.5oz Mandarina Bavaria dry hop 3 days
1.5oz exp 7270 dry hop 3 days
.5 oz citra dry hop 3 days

Mash @152


Ill also get some PH strips and test for mash ph

 

[stonebrewer]

PH strips are going to be pretty worthless. I suggest you either buy or borrow a PH meter and use it for a few brews to determine your mash PH. You could also use one of the water calculators if you know the mineral content of your water and mash ingredients. If you want a NE style beers, I suggest you really try to understand your water chemistry. Chloride and sulfate levels are pretty key to getting the style and a mash PH of around 5.3 is highly, highly recommended for the style. As @Yooper said, you can affect the mash PH in a lot of ways. I find it best to use 85% phosphoric acid to modify my mash PH. I have used acid malt before as well, but think you have more control with a PH meter and adding concentrated or diluted acid...diluted probably gets you more control and room for error, but I tend to calculate it beforehand with Bru'N'water and I am pretty close with concentrated. Keep good notes and dial this in...will be a great beer! Cheers!!

 

[grassfeeder]

I think this is way more complicated than it needs to be. Malt bill needs to be simplified.

scrap the acid malt, if you don't know your starting PH you're not going to know how much acid malt to use any way. Use some calcium chloride and adjust accordingly. scrap the flaked wheat and just use regular white wheat or red wheat. why use 2-row and pilsner malt? just use 2-row.

I'd also double your whirlpool hops, but that's just me. also make sure you whirlpool the hops at 170 degrees.

 

[elburrogrande]

Thanks again guys, I am totally noobie when it comes to water chemistry. I did a quick google of my city water report and found this. Is this what I would use?

 

[stonebrewer]

That looks like a great start. Which of the two water profiles is yours? I don't see Calcium listed...

Go check this out: https://sites.google.com/site/brunwater/

 

[elburrogrande]

They're both the same profile it's just two pages long. Thanks for the link

That
looks like a great start. Which of the two water profiles is yours? I don't see Calcium listed...

Go check this out: https://sites.google.com/site/brunwater/

 

[stonebrewer]

They're both the same profile it's just two pages long. Thanks for the link

I don't understand then...I was talking about the fact there are two columns, one for treated ground water and one for treated surface water. I don't understand how you determine what water source you have from the report. My water report has more than one source as well, and I had to dig around to figure out which was being routed to my home...#shrug

 

[elburrogrande]

I don't understand then...I was talking about the fact there are two columns, one for treated ground water and one for treated surface water. I don't understand how you determine what water source you have from the report. My water report has more than one source as well, and I had to dig around to figure out which was being routed to my home...#shrug

Ahhh got you. I'm assuming it's surface water but it's not much more than a slightly educated guess. I did contact the water agency and they said calcium is displayed as hardness. I wanted to brew this weekend so I just left the water alone.

I missed my OG came in at 1.072. I also got rid of the Crystal malt but used 6oz acid malt.

 

[elburrogrande]

quick update, Just had my first taste and it is very good. I think I can improve it with some more knowledge of water chemistry. I only fermented it for 9 days and tasted after bottling for 5 days. OG was 1.072 and FG was 1.017. I am thinking of using RO water and adding 6gms of gypsum and 6gms of CaCl with 3gms of baking soda. Anyone with better understanding see a problem with this?

 

[unviewtiful]

quick update, Just had my first taste and it is very good. I think I can improve it with some more knowledge of water chemistry. I only fermented it for 9 days and tasted after bottling for 5 days. OG was 1.072 and FG was 1.017. I am thinking of using RO water and adding 6gms of gypsum and 6gms of CaCl with 3gms of baking soda. Anyone with better understanding see a problem with this?

With a pale colored beer like this, you shouldn't need baking soda. Typically it's used to raise pH, but if your pH is too low, you should just cut back on acid malt. I haven't plugged it into Bru'n water at all so I'm not sure what that will bring your ion concentrations to, but I highly suggest doing that with a "yellow balanced" water profile, but increase chloride to probably 100 ppm.

 

[elburrogrande]

That's true. I reduced the acid malt to 3.2 oz and it has me at a ph of 5.33 with 4.3g of CaCL and 4.3g of Gypsum. with Chloride at 109 and sulfate at 93. Still learning Bru'n water though.

 

[frettfreak]

I just brewed a NE IPA for the first time as well. Someone else suggested using Brun' water and i would HIGHLY recommend it too. I am no expert or even close when it comes to water chemistry but from what i understand with the NE style is that you are going to need more chloride than sulfates in your water (the opposite of what you would usually do for a CA style hoppy crisp IPA). I went for a more balanced approach BUT its still more chloride and less sulfates than what my typical IPA has.

Also, yeast choice and WHEN you put the first dry hop charge ALLEGEDLY all have a roll in this style. I went with Vermont Ale yeast, and put my first dry hop charge in after primary started to slow but was still very actively fermenting.

If anyone else has more knowledge of this styles water profiles PLEASE chime in as i am curious as well.


CHeers

 

[elburrogrande]

I know a key feature is to drink as fast as possible. I usually drink them about 3 days after bottling and are close to fully carbonated. The taste is many times better than the bottles I have left 3 weeks later.

On a side note. I only bottled a portion of the batch. I threw in some honey to restart fermentation to purge oxygen I introduced at bottling and let the rest ferment for another 5 days. I just bottled the rest of it and it dropped about 3 points. Not sure if it was they honey but I am pleased.

 

[stonebrewer]

Drinking a Cutting Tiles right now and I think you will find that the honey is the shiznit, bro!! Love what it does in this beer...cheers and post tasting notes and contrast the two...betting you will like the honey version a little better.

 

[elburrogrande]

overall very pleased with this beer. Its about 7.5% abv with no alcohol bite and very hoppy but low bitterness. It has a little bit of residual sweetness but its rather pleasant. I added 2gs of cacl at bottling and it has a creamy soft mouthfeel. Will definitely be playing around more with my water chemistry

 

[TxBigHops]

overall very pleased with this beer. Its about 7.5% abv with no alcohol bite and very hoppy but low bitterness. It has a little bit of residual sweetness but its rather pleasant. I added 2gs of cacl at bottling and it has a creamy soft mouthfeel. Will definitely be playing around more with my water chemistry

I see most of the previous conversion has been regarding the grain bill. I'm interested in the hops. Farmhouse still has Exp7270 on sale. it's described as a fairly overpowering hop. On the other hand, Mandarina Bavaria is described as a delicate hop. Did you feel like the MB came through at all, or was it completely dominated by the EXP7270? I'm assuming you liked the 7270. Any comments on the hop specifically? I'm also thinking of using it in an upcoming double version of my NE IPA, which coincidentally features MB.