Cost of making home brew

Yakima 728
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I think we call all agree that the equipment is the sticking point economically and that the ingredients are actually much cheaper than buying finished beer.

Therefore the solution is clear. The more your drink the more you save. So brew more beer.
 
dantodd said:
I think we call all agree that the equipment is the sticking point economically and that the ingredients are actually much cheaper than buying finished beer.

Therefore the solution is clear. The more your drink the more you save. So brew more beer.
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I've already figured out where I make my savings....I just didn't want to be the first to say! :p
 
since Bobby_M hasn't posted here yet - I'll steal some of his thoughts.

If you want to account for true price, you need to include 1) your time, 2) energy expensed (propane), 3) water, 4) mason jars to wash yeast, etc....

not just the cost of your equipment and ingredients.....
 
AZ_IPA said:
since Bobby_M hasn't posted here yet - I'll steal some of his thoughts.

If you want to account for true price, you need to include 1) your time, 2) energy expensed (propane), 3) water, 4) mason jars to wash yeast, etc....

not just the cost of your equipment and ingredients.....
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I always take everything into consideration.....But mason jars? I use coffee jars. Do I have to account for the price of packaging when we bought the coffee?

Realistically, there has to be a cut off point before it gets ridiculous.
 
Well guys thanks for all the advice, being the thrifty guy I am I was looking at a way to save money on carboys, and my grandpa happened to look at my computer and said "huh.. I've got four or five of those things in the basement..." I pretty much threw my laptop and ran downstairs to check. I might also be getting some cheap hoses to syphon beer out of the carboys, we make water filters at work and some hoses didn't look good enough to use! Now I've just got to find the other stuff I need to make a cheap setup. Maybe I'll make it a goal to get everything under $50, just for a challenge.
 
Bildo said:
Well guys thanks for all the advice, being the thrifty guy I am I was looking at a way to save money on carboys, and my grandpa happened to look at my computer and said "huh.. I've got four or five of those things in the basement..." I pretty much threw my laptop and ran downstairs to check. I might also be getting some cheap hoses to syphon beer out of the carboys, we make water filters at work and some hoses didn't look good enough to use! Now I've just got to find the other stuff I need to make a cheap setup. Maybe I'll make it a goal to get everything under $50, just for a challenge.
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Great news!! But honestly, buy new hose. That's dirt cheap and not to be skimped on. :) Great news on the carboys though! You owe Grandpa a beer! :D
 
Great news!! But honestly, buy new hose. That's dirt cheap and not to be skimped on. Great news on the carboys though! You owe Grandpa a beer!
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I'd give him a beer, but he only drinks corn wine!
 
Laughing_Gnome_Invisible said:
Realistically, there has to be a cut off point before it gets ridiculous.
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point taken - but if you want "true costs" you really need to add up everything.

You add the cost of the coffee when you bought it (and the ratio of gas used to go to the store), but then subtract what an used coffee can would cost if you bought an empty used one soley for the purpose of brewing. pffffffftttttt. you call me rediculous? :D
 
AZ_IPA said:
point taken - but if you want "true costs" you really need to add up everything.

You add the cost of the coffee when you bought it (and the ratio of gas used to go to the store), but then subtract what an used coffee can would cost if you bought an empty used one soley for the purpose of brewing. pffffffftttttt. you call me rediculous? :D
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And don't forget to figure out the square footage you are using while brewing and amortize it into the cost per bottle of beer? Same goes for fermenting and equipment storage areas. And add in the time you are using to calculate how much time and money the beer is costing; and research time on HBT and other sites. Homebrewing sounds like a black hole money pit. You should all quit.

-OCD
 
beerocd said:
And don't forget to figure out the square footage you are using while brewing and amortize it into the cost per bottle of beer? Same goes for fermenting and equipment storage areas. And add in the time you are using to calculate how much time and money the beer is costing; and research time on HBT and other sites. Homebrewing sounds like a black hole money pit. You should all quit.

-OCD
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This reminds me of the self employed days when I used to claim a tax deductable for my border collie and her food because she was a "guard dog". ;)

In all fairness, I never got burgled! :D
 
chuggs said:
I started in the hobby back in '91...and honestly I wanted more than anything to disprove the accepted adage of the time "Forget about making Beer! It's too hard to do right...make Wine instead"...
I bought one of those white platic pail kits, Bottling Bucket, Lid with air lock hole, Hydrometer, Racking Cane, bottling wand, tubing, capper, caps, air lock, floating thermometer. I also bought a Canned "Kit" beer...and dry yeast packet. Long story short...I made some of the most god awful stuff I've ever tasted. I gave the hobby a good go...but if you try too hard to save money...you make bad beer. It wasn't unusual to make beer by mixing LME and a bunch of corn sugar (cheap) and pitch dry yeast... And you'd come up with some pretty rank tasting beer like substance.
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Chuggs! We must be long-lost brothers! That was exactly my experience and reason for switching exclusively to wine between 94 and 07.

Now I can say in the past two years, I've made two bad batches of beer that I've dumped. (my last two batches coincidentally enough...). What is a harsh coincidence? Batch A was... a canned LME kit. Dry yeast. I took it to my local brew club and after many brewers confirmed it had several problems, one guy handed me the bottle and proclaimed it "TWFBIET" (the worst f... beer I've ever tasted). I agreed.

(second bad batch was reusing a yeast from another brewer, on a third go-round after different styles of beer had been on it)

p.s. Mind telling which Guinness clone you are using? I'm still searching for 'the grail' as I go toward making my first batch this fall of the dark goodness.

-J
 
Bildo said:
I might also be getting some cheap hoses to syphon beer out of the carboys, we make water filters at work and some hoses didn't look good enough to use! Now I've just got to find the other stuff I need to make a cheap setup. Maybe I'll make it a goal to get everything under $50, just for a challenge.
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yeah, remember the golden rule that cleanliness is next to goodliness.
If you must go 'used equipment of unknown origin/age', clean clean clean and then clean some more. And scrub/use brushes where you can. And then sanitize.

And good luck to ya!
 
beerocd said:
And don't forget to figure out the square footage you are using while brewing and amortize it into the cost per bottle of beer? Same goes for fermenting and equipment storage areas. And add in the time you are using to calculate how much time and money the beer is costing; and research time on HBT and other sites. Homebrewing sounds like a black hole money pit. You should all quit.

-OCD
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Priceless!

Thanks for that, OCD. That was a true LOL moment as the kids say.
Yeah, what's the cost of my laptop battery and carbon footprint when it is done and spent and sitting in a landfill/recycle station?

;)

brew on! brew happy!
 
You can joke all you want about not counting labor from the equation, but let me ask you this: Can I give you $20 (or whatever your batch cost) for the pleasure of coming to your house and dumping your beer?

Clearly not. That batch has exceeded the cost of it's constituents because of the value of the time that you put in it. So what is the amount of money that you will accept for me to dump your beer?

That is the labor cost... the amount of money that you will accept to compensate you for your time brewing.
 
olllllo said:
You can joke all you want about not counting labor from the equation, but let me ask you this: Can I give you $20 (or whatever your batch cost) for the pleasure of coming to your house and dumping your beer?

Clearly not. That batch has exceeded the cost of it's constituents because of the value of the time that you put in it. So what is the amount of money that you will accept for me to dump your beer?

That is the labor cost... the amount of money that you will accept to compensate you for your time brewing.
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Rob, man.. they sucked you in. Must....resist.
 
It really is an easy thing to keep track of. I keep a spread sheet and enter anything related to brewing into it. I then keep a running tally of gallons brewed overall. A couple quick equations and I have a number of how much my beer costs. If you want to factor in labor cost, just take whatever amount you would accept if this were a real job multiplyu that by your average brewday time (total), and add it to whatever volume of beer you were making.

If you don't want to count labor, don't count it, but understand it is still costing you.
 
The rule would have to be that you get to pour it out without the brewer even getting to taste the result. That way you don't get suckered into pouring out a batch the brewer already wrote off as terrible, dump-able anyway.

Incidentally, my homebrew costs about a dollar an ounce.
 
olllllo said:
Someone will take me up on it. I have a crisp $20 and unlimited flight benefits. Point me to your barleywine.
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It would actually COST you more than $20 to dump my beer. Your time is worth something and traveling from where you are to where I am would take up quite a bit of time. Also - even if you could dump my beer for only $20; I wager you wouldn't since you can't make a beer for $20 considering labor costs involved. So you would take it back with you as checked luggage, and get charged a fee for it being too heavy. It really is a no win situation. :drunk:

I think consumables should be the only thing counted in cost per batch. That's the only way to make fair comparisons. If a brain surgeon and a taxi driver both make beer from the same $20 worth of ingredients; one batch is not worth $5,000 more because that is the brain surgeons billing rate. $1 for electricity vs. $5 in propane I think is a fair comparison too.

______________________________________________________________
GOT IT - just came to me. As with your tax returns - if its YOUR LABOR you can't deduct it. If you pay someone to do something for you - you can. I propose this is the new standard for costing out beer.
 
Also, why would you charge time on something you enjoy? People would pay to have that much fun at Disneyworld... there's no way epcott is more fun than making a good beer.
 
olllllo said:
So what is the amount of money that you will accept for me to dump your beer?

That is the labor cost... the amount of money that you will accept to compensate you for your time brewing.
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But that is not the brewer's cost to make the beer. You are confusing the cost of the labor with the beer's value. Those are two very different things. I've made some beers that I would be more than happy to accept $20 for you come over and dump, or even less.

And, just like with any other hobby or other leisure activity, I don't even think of setting a price on my time or effort when it comes to brewing or any other hobby. It's not like I would be working during my brewing time if I weren't brewing. It works the same way if I am going out for a beer, for dinner, to a ballgame, or a movie. If I had to account for time when it comes to doing something other than work, and I used my normal billing rate, I could send my kids to college on the cost of my television, and my mattress would cost more than the space shuttle. That's all I will say about that.

Back to OP's question, not accounting for equipment, my average batch cost on ingredients comes out somewhere around $4-5 per gallon of beer that makes it into the keg. I buy my base malts in bulk, but not as part of a pallet-sharing thing (although I am not against it, should the opportunity arise at the right time). I do not specialty malts in bulk. I buy my hops in bulk. I don't reuse yeast enough for that to make a difference (and that is roughly 20-25% of my cost). I buy my water for $0.35/gallon (although I often use treated tap water for half). In the end, the ingredients cost me roughly half (or a little more than half) of a good craft beer or micro in the store and a hell of a lot less than I can buy it at the bar. However, it's more important that I made it and that I cannot find that beer anywhere else in the world.

When it comes to equipment, I have no idea how that works out. I've had some of my gear for almost fifteen years. I have a carboy that I bought over 16 years ago. I have lots of other doo-dads that I have accumulated over that time. I have some stuff that I bought last month. It's a hobby, not a business, so I don't keep such records, so long as it is within my budget.


TL
 
olllllo said:
I can't tell if you are intentionally missing the point, but either way beerocd. I think you're scared that I would do it.
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Nah, just having fun in a senseless, no win subject. If I had beer to spare, I'd take you up on it, just so I could have a beer with you. ;)

-OCD
 
With all due respect TxLaw, you're assuming that all people get into this hobby because they find the process enjoyable. Some people ask about the cost of producing beer because they feel they can save money. They are interested in the result.

From the OP
If you were to add up the cost, of your hops, grains etc. how much does it cost you to make your brew? If you were to estimate cost per 12oz botttle, what would it be? Just curious, I just started getting into the idea of brewing my own beer, and as a cheap basterd I want to see how much less it is.
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I am not confusing cost with value. The fact that two beers can have different values despite having the same labor cost and grain bill does nothing to diminish my argument. Using your logic, the beer that you value so little that i could throw away for less than $20 hasn't also lost it's ingredient cost.
 
olllllo said:
I am not confusing cost with value. The fact that two beers can have different values despite having the same labor cost and grain bill does nothing to diminish my argument. Using your logic, the beer that you value so little that i could throw away for less than $20 hasn't also lost it's ingredient cost.
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You are correct. The ingredient cost has not gone away any more than any labor cost has, to the extent there is any labor cost. However, cost does not necessarily create a minimum value. I could spend all day and $100 on ingredients that winds up infected. That doesn't change the fact that I would gladly take your $20 and watch you dump it. Fortunately, we are dealing with a hypothetical world, here (knock on wood).


TL
 
I guess I was sucked in too. Darn.

Another way to put it is, if brewing is such fun that the only cost is that of consumables, surely you wouldn't mind starting over as I dump this carboy out. In fact, I'm actually doing you a favor by freeing up a carboy so you can brew again immediately.

Ok, it's a bunch of nonsense in the real world but we're a group of brewers who really do love the process probably more than the beer itself. You have to be objective when someone literally asks about "cost".

You could say that time + money invested = beer and the enjoyment of reflection on the brewing process, pride, and the learning experience..

If you're the type of person that would discount the pride and learning experience, now you just have time + money = beer. That's a losing investment.
 
Well, if you want to be objective, then you have to have to acknowledge that this time or labor "cost" is a subjective matter (ironically). In other words, everyone has their own measure. For some, it's $0 or virtually so. For others, it's too much. Then, we just leave it at that.


TL
 
Calculating the cost of labor into your homebrewing HOBBY is like calculating the cost of labor into your sexlife. We're supposed to be doing these things because we enjoy it.

So, unless you're a professional brewer or hooker the time spent is part of the pay off not the cost.
 
dantodd said:
Calculating the cost of labor into your homebrewing HOBBY is like calculating the cost of labor into your sexlife. We're supposed to be doing these things because we enjoy it.

So, unless you're a professional brewer or hooker the time spent is part of the pay off not the cost.
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That's not a very good analogy. There are some people that will brew all day every day if given the opportunity. I've done double batch days and I can tell you that a third batch would be out of the question. It's a sliding scale of enjoyment.

But If I were to use your analogy. Some people are into the entire practice and others are into the last 15 seconds.
 
If I were to only use cost of consumeables for my last few batches it would come out to appx. 0.0066666 cents per oz. of beer (appx. $4 per batch). But it certainly doesn't feel that way.

Very labor intensive when you count time to irrigate and tend/harvest hops, home malt your own barley, roast your own barley and malt, harvest/wash/store yeast, read numerous brewing books, research internet for countless hours, but that's the fun part right? Or is that the brewing part only?:rockin:

I do it because I can. Oh yeah and because I like beer.
 
dantodd said:
Calculating the cost of labor into your homebrewing HOBBY is like calculating the cost of labor into your sexlife. We're supposed to be doing these things because we enjoy it.
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I would have said the same thing, but I no longer agree. Jeep Man was absolutely correct when he said some people check out homebrewing solely to save money. It's like some who cook at home. They may not enjoy cooking, but they do it to save money. Sure, many cook at home because they enjoy it or for health reasons or who knows what, but many others do it to save money, period. The same goes with mowing your own yard, growing your own vegetables, painting your own house, redoing your own roof, etc. Some may view brewing the same way.


TL
 
OK, from one cheap bastard to another- yes you can save money, with the following caveats;
- You have to look at *your time* as something spent on a hobby and not part of the total cost. If you don’t enjoy making beer and view brew time as a cost, you won’t save money…. stop here.
- You have to first buy/make a bunch of equipment.
- You have to brew enough to have the knowledge to; brew AG, buy in bulk and reuse yeast.
- You have to resist the urge to constantly upgrade your equipment.

Given those caveats, sure you can save a ton of money.

I brew mostly mid-range pub ales. Averaging the cost if my last 7 brews, including propane, is $12.85 per 5-gallon batch… or about 24 cents per 12 ounce bottle.
 
I normally stay as far away from these threads as I can manage, but I always seem to be drawn in. Guess I'm just a sucker.

Anyway, we have to recognize that there's a lot of brewers who enter into the hobby/pursuit/whatever you call it purely as a cost-saving measure. Craigtube comes to mind - I know he's often maligned on here, but let's face it: he's faced with prohibitive beer costs in Canada and he's trimming cost by making it at home and seems perfectly satisfied with his kit + kilo approach. I can't argue with that - he embraces the homebrewing spirit of DIY or die.

Our own LGI has been tormenting himself for ages trying to perfect the bitter he grew up drinking - but he's doing so by using well-established AG brewing methods.

There's really not much difference between them, fundamentally. :)

It's easy to forget when we get into these diatribes that there's still lots of brewers out there who brew, say, 5 batches a year and do so with the least amount of effort and equipment as they can - because it's all about the consumables. I'd say that most of us here brew ahead of the volume curve.
 
My time is extremely valuable to me. If I felt that i was was wasting it by brewing, then I would stop.

I won't put a dollar amount on my brewing time just as i won't put a dollar amount on time spent on scratching my ass or completing my plans for world domination. There are some things that we do just because we can.

I don't expect to get paid for scratching my ass, and i don't put a dollar amount onthe time spent on my hobby either.
 

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