Cost of 240v 30a outlet

[Owly055]

Honestly, I would put a 2 pole 50amp breaker in the main to feed the 50amp spa panel. This way you are 50amp all the way back to the main. Its just my preference as I dont like to have a smaller upstream bottleneck in my main when it comes to powering up things.

It is odd that a GFCI breaker is more expensive than a spa panel providing the same service, but it is. The GFCI 2-pole 30amp Square D breaker I have in my sheds sub panel I got from a HBT person who got the wrong breaker(but it was the exact one I needed) for $60 which was a steal as that breaker is over $100 new.

I cannot say enough to go out to one of the big box stores and grab a how-to electrical book on all of this before you go out and buy anything so you know whats what and can formulate a solid plan of attack that fits your build-out.

GFCI circuit breakers are not a typical high volume consumer item........ Spas are extremely common, and spa panels are high production. I've only seen a few GFCI circuit breakers in breaker boxes. Another solution is the power cords used for large pressure washers. A 5 HP pressure washer will have a cord with a GFCI built into it. I've worked with 240 and 480 circuits where water was involved for years ...........without any ground fault protection..... It's a relatively new thing.

H.W.

 

[Hello]

The added benefit of the spa panel is that you can take it with you when you move. Otherwise, you're looking at $100 for a GFCI for this panel and then doing it again when you buy a house with a different brand panel.. Long story short, there is very little reason to put a GFCI directly in your panel.

Are you saying the spa panel is best thing making the GFCI in the main panel unnecessary?

 

[bbohanon]

Are you saying the spa panel is best thing making the GFCI in the main panel unnecessary?

If you are putting in a sub panel, you want the GFCI to live at the connection point of the brewery for the GFCI protection. In this case its the spa panel that is the last stop before the brewery gets plugged in so the GFCI in the main panel is not needed as the spa panel with the GFCI would get tripped before it even got to the main panel if there was an issue.

 

[jeffmeh]

Honestly, I would put a 2 pole 50amp breaker in the main to feed the 50amp spa panel. This way you are 50amp all the way back to the main. Its just my preference as I dont like to have a smaller upstream bottleneck in my main when it comes to powering up things.

It is odd that a GFCI breaker is more expensive than a spa panel providing the same service, but it is. The GFCI 2-pole 30amp Square D breaker I have in my sheds sub panel I got from a HBT person who got the wrong breaker(but it was the exact one I needed) for $60 which was a steal as that breaker is over $100 new.

I cannot say enough to go out to one of the big box stores and grab a how-to electrical book on all of this before you go out and buy anything so you know whats what and can formulate a solid plan of attack that fits your build-out.

I wouldn't go with a 50a breaker unless I wanted a 50a brewery. If the OP did for his 30a brewery, he would incur the additional expense of sizing up the wire to a 50a rating, and would either need to run that gauge inside his control panel, or would need additional breakers to step down to smaller wire.

 

[h22lude]

The added benefit of the spa panel is that you can take it with you when you move. Otherwise, you're looking at $100 for a GFCI for this panel and then doing it again when you buy a house with a different brand panel.. Long story short, there is very little reason to put a GFCI directly in your panel.

So it seems like the only reason for a spa panel is portability (which in the end could save you some money if you move).

I wouldn't go with a 50a breaker unless I wanted a 50a brewery. If the OP did for his 30a brewery, he would incur the additional expense of sizing up the wire to a 50a rating, and would either need to run that gauge inside his control panel, or would need additional breakers to step down to smaller wire.

I agree. I would need #10 for 30A or 8# for 50A. I assume #8 is harder to work with and more expensive.

 

[augiedoggy]

Do you know the complete load of your box? I paid $300 for a 20a NEMA receptacle in March 2014. I was quoted $485.25 for a 50a GFCI breaker; however, that quote doesn't include trenching to a shed and a sub panel will have to be installed. For the breaker itself though, that's what they want.

Now, it looks like you do have room but you have to double up those 15s like they have on the top right. As far as I understand now, you need to take 4 of those 15s and fit them into two spaces leaving you two other spaces which will hold the 240v 30a.

What wattage are your elements? 30a won't allow you to run two 5500W elements together. Not a problem if you don't care about back to back batches. 30a will run the 5500W and two pumps together without issue.

A couple of things. You may want to just install a spa panel if you want 120v as well. You also may need a permit which you, as a homeowner can get. Check your town/city website. For me, I can do all of the work I want with a permit. They don't need me to hold any type of license. Suckers. haha

a 50a gfci breaker is $60 if you buy a complete 50a spa panel at the home depot with the breaker installed otherwise they are about $100 separately... sounds like who ever quoted you marked the price up 400% or so...

if you use a regular 30A 2 pole breaker ($10) for the main box and use a 50a gfci spa panel mounted by the outlet (makes a great master kill switch) you still get the gfci protection from the 50a breaker and the overcurrent protection from the main 30a breaker...(This is what I did). the ground fault protection is independent and will work correctly regardless... I was also told its best to have the gfci breaker closest to the load like they are in a kitchen/bathroom or hot tub...

By the way I think 6 guage is required for 50 or 60 amps and 8 is only good for like 40-45amps... could be wrong but thats what I thought I was told when I bought my 10g. I know I needed #6 wire for my hot tub but that is 60a too...

 

[ccbadd]

If any of those 15A breakers are AFCI (not GFCI) breakers and feeding a living room, dining room or bedroom (any dwelling room) than you can't swap then for a double breaker unless you can find a double AFCI breaker and I have not seen one. NEC 2011 210.12

 

[h22lude]

If any of those 15A breakers are AFCI (not GFCI) breakers and feeding a living room, dining room or bedroom (any dwelling room) than you can't swap then for a double breaker unless you can find a double AFCI breaker and I have not seen one. NEC 2011 210.12

I'm actually still working on writing out what each breaker goes to. This was never done by the old owner. the 3rd breaker on the right is feeding my living room outlets and I do think the 7th one done feeds outlets in my dining room.

So what is the way around that problem? Would I have to remove two breakers from the main, put in a 40A or 50A breaker to power a sub panel which would hold the two breakers I removed plus the 30A GFCI I need for my brew system?

Edit: I guess the thing I should do now is look at what each breaker is powering. Could I combine 2 20A into one 20A tandem and 2 15A into one 15A tandem as long as none of them are a bedroom, living room or dining room?

 

[Owly055]

I'm actually still working on writing out what each breaker goes to. This was never done by the old owner. the 3rd breaker on the right is feeding my living room outlets and I do think the 7th one done feeds outlets in my dining room.

So what is the way around that problem? Would I have to remove two breakers from the main, put in a 40A or 50A breaker to power a sub panel which would hold the two breakers I removed plus the 30A GFCI I need for my brew system?

You are making this far to complicated.......... It looks like you have 7 full width breakers. Each position with a full width breaker can take 2 narrow breakers. That leaves plenty of room for expansion without a sub panel. Pull 4 breakers and install your 220 GFCI, Install 4 narrow breakers in the other two slots.


H.W.

 

[bbohanon]

I wouldn't go with a 50a breaker unless I wanted a 50a brewery. If the OP did for his 30a brewery, he would incur the additional expense of sizing up the wire to a 50a rating, and would either need to run that gauge inside his control panel, or would need additional breakers to step down to smaller wire.

If this is a new install from a new 50amp breaker to a spa panel 2-3 ft from the main, I would just go 50amp to 50 amp spa panel, the #6 is not that much harder to work with nor that much more expensive for that small of a run and should you ever decide to go to a 50amp brewery later, it's there already.
Just saying...

 

[kal]

If you do decide to do the install yourself, I'd like to add a "+1" to pulling the proper permits and having it inspected.

It's not just about making sure it works, but making sure it's done safely to minimize possible issues farther down the road that the average person may not even realize could be issues.

Good luck!

Kal

 

[h22lude]

You are making this far to complicated.......... It looks like you have 7 full width breakers. Each position with a full width breaker can take 2 narrow breakers. That leaves plenty of room for expansion without a sub panel. Pull 4 breakers and install your 220 GFCI, Install 4 narrow breakers in the other two slots.


H.W.

That is what I was planning on doing however ccbadd just mentioned that if any of those 15A single pole breakers are AFCI, I cannot put those in tandem. They have to stay single pole because there aren't 15A AFCI tandem breakers. I'm just going off what he wrote. I don't know if that is true or not.

If you do decide to do the install yourself, I'd like to add a "+1" to pulling the proper permits and having it inspected.

It's not just about making sure it works, but making sure it's done safely to minimize possible issues farther down the road that the average person may not even realize could be issues.

Good luck!

Kal

Oh absolutely. I was looking into permits but couldn't find the info online. Only thing I found in my state was replacing recepticale, not adding one. I was going to call once I was closer to doing this project. And yes, getting inspected was another thing I was going to do.


Edit: As I sent those replies the electrician got back to me. He quoted me $285. The quote says he will be replacing 4 15A breakers with 2 tandem 15A breakers. Adding the 30A GFCI breakers and all the wiring, outlet and plug.

The contractor for the condo gave me his number and said he was excellent. I just looked him up on Yelp and Angies List and he isn't on either. He is licensed and insured. I just wish I could see a few reviews.

 

[bbohanon]

That is what I was planning on doing however ccbadd just mentioned that if any of those 15A single pole breakers are AFCI, I cannot put those in tandem. They have to stay single pole because there aren't 15A AFCI tandem breakers. I'm just going off what he wrote. I don't know if that is true or not.



Oh absolutely. I was looking into permits but couldn't find the info online. Only thing I found in my state was replacing recepticale, not adding one. I was going to call once I was closer to doing this project. And yes, getting inspected was another thing I was going to do.


Edit: As I sent those replies the electrician got back to me. He quoted me $285. The quote says he will be replacing 4 15A breakers with 2 tandem 15A breakers. Adding the 30A GFCI breakers and all the wiring, outlet and plug.

The contractor for the condo gave me his number and said he was excellent. I just looked him up on Yelp and Angies List and he isn't on either. He is licensed and insured. I just wish I could see a few reviews.

Honestly that is not a bad price at all for that much work if it includes the cost of the materials and the new GFCI breaker..

 

[h22lude]

Honestly that is not a bad price at all for that much work if it includes the cost of the materials and the new GFCI breaker..

I do wish it was a little less but I understand it is a small job and he needs to make money. He wouldn't do it for $50 profit.

I'm actually thinking now I will go with him. Save me the time of getting a permit and inspected. Plus he is insured just in case anything happens.

I'm just curious about the AFCI issue ccbadd mentioned because from the quote, he is just replacing 2 15A single pole breakers with 2 tandem 15A breakers to make room for the double pole 30A. Which means he would be replacing AFCI breakers with non-AFCI ones...if they are AFCI to begin with.

Looking online at other AFCI breakers, they seem to be colored either green or blue. I don't seem to have any 15A colored breakers.

 

[augiedoggy]

If this is a new install from a new 50amp breaker to a spa panel 2-3 ft from the main, I would just go 50amp to 50 amp spa panel, the #6 is not that much harder to work with nor that much more expensive for that small of a run and should you ever decide to go to a 50amp brewery later, it's there already.
Just saying...

There are other things to consider... For example if your house has enough juice in its service to support another 50a load...my old house for example has a 100amp main service ...I also have a 60a hot tub and a large reef tank that draws a lot of power.... I don't think I can add a 50a circuit if I wanted to and still be safe or meet code... I'm sure there are others in the same boat.

 

[reynolds5520]

I'm just curious about the AFCI issue ccbadd mentioned because from the quote, he is just replacing 2 15A single pole breakers with 2 tandem 15A breakers to make room for the double pole 30A. Maybe he doesn't know those 15A were AFCI...

It isn't that they are AFCI breakers now, they aren't. The issue is that when the breaker is changed it has to meet the new code requiring AFCI (Arc Fault Circuit Interrupter).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arc-fault_circuit_interrupter#Electrical_code_requirements

Your local code may be different - not all have adopted the 2014 NEC.

Since your goal is to make room by changing the breakers, you can meet the AFCI code by installing AFCI receptacles as the first receptacle on each of the branch circuits that is moving to the new breakers.

 

[h22lude]

It isn't that they are AFCI breakers now, they aren't. The issue is that when the breaker is changed it has to meet the new code requiring AFCI (Arc Fault Circuit Interrupter).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arc-fault_circuit_interrupter#Electrical_code_requirements

Your local code may be different - not all have adopted the 2014 NEC.

Since your goal is to make room by changing the breakers, you can meet the AFCI code by installing AFCI receptacles as the first receptacle on each of the branch circuits that is moving to the new breakers.

Oh so basically if a bedroom circuit doesn't have an AFCI breaker it is ok but if I were changing the bedroom breaker I would need to replace it with an AFCI one.

Let me see if I understand this. I would need to locate the first outlet in the circuit and replace that with an AFCI outlet (either 15A or 20A depending on the circuit) and that will allow me to put in the tandem breakers without breaking code?

 

[reynolds5520]

You've got the idea, but bedrooms was the 2009 NEC. Follow that link to Wiki, the 2014 NEC requires bedrooms and much more.

 

[h22lude]

You've got the idea, but bedrooms was the 2009 NEC. Follow that link to Wiki, the 2014 NEC requires bedrooms and much more.

Right, I was just using bedroom as an example. Seems like most breakers need to be AFCI now. I assume the 4 15A breakers I replace would need to be AFCI so I will need to buy 4 AFCI outlets and find where the first for each circuit is.

 

[podz]

I was quoted $485.25 for a 50a GFCI breaker; however, that quote doesn't include trenching to a shed and a sub panel will have to be installed. For the breaker itself though, that's what they want.

Now, it looks like you do have room but you have to double up those 15s like they have on the top right. As far as I understand now, you need to take 4 of those 15s and fit them into two spaces leaving you two other spaces which will hold the 240v 30a.

What wattage are your elements? 30a won't allow you to run two 5500W elements together. Not a problem if you don't care about back to back batches. 30a will run the 5500W and two pumps together without issue.

WTF? I can walk into nearly any store and buy a 40a GFCI switch for 30 euro. Here, we put them in the panel and wire them between the breaker and the load.

Anyway, You can easily get 12000 watts with 240v 30a if you run three phase power. Just use three phase heating elements and forget about it.

 

[reynolds5520]

Yup, you've got it.

It would be worth checking first to be sure your local code is the same as the 2014 NEC. You may be able to avoid the extra expense.

 

[h22lude]

Yup, you've got it.

It would be worth checking first to be sure your local code is the same as the 2014 NEC. You may be able to avoid the extra expense.

Right, I was just using bedroom as an example. I think the newest coding says to install them in dwelling areas which is pretty much the whole house lol

I think I'm going to go the tandem with AFCI outlet route. Now I just need to figure out if I want to save the $150 in labor and do it myself. I'm leaning towards have a pro do it but I do want to learn how. I have learned a lot just from research this and you guys helping me. Thanks

 

[bbohanon]

There are other things to consider... For example if your house has enough juice in its service to support another 50a load...my old house for example has a 100amp main service ...I also have a 60a hot tub and a large reef tank that draws a lot of power.... I don't think I can add a 50a circuit if I wanted to and still be safe or meet code... I'm sure there are others in the same boat.

100% agreed on this note..make sure your main can handle the additional service no matter what size circuit you are adding especially in older homes..
Newer homes usually get 200amp service to the main..mine does.

 

[kal]

Anyway, You can easily get 12000 watts with 240v 30a if you run three phase power. Just use three phase heating elements and forget about it.

You can't get three phase in most residential neighborhoods. The transformers in suburban area aren't tapped that anyway in North America (or most other places in the world for that matter).

Residential homes are (relatively speaking) very lower power so they tap for nominal single-phase supply voltages. Not three phase or industrial. There would be no point in offering it as nobody uses anything that would run on three phase in their house.

You can in some isolated cases, but it's extremely rare.

Kal

 

[podz]

You can't get three phase in most residential neighborhoods. The transformers in suburban area aren't tapped that anyway in North America (or most other places in the world for that matter).

Residential homes are (relatively speaking) very lower power so they tap for nominal single-phase supply voltages. Not three phase or industrial. There would be no point in offering it as nobody uses anything that would run on three phase in their house.

You can in some isolated cases, but it's extremely rare.

Kal

The rest of the world? ;-)

Every residence in Finland, and probably most of the EU as well, has 3 phase power. All european stove-oven combos are 3 phase.

I have 3x25A 230 volt phases coming to my house through 3 big porcelain fuses. Other choices would be 3x35 or 3x63. 3x35 is actually very common, but I live in an old house.

We all run 3 phases from the main panel to the stove/oven (integrated components accept all 3 phases - otherwise 1 phase to the oven and 2 phases to the cooktop). I have a wood burning stove in my sauna, but all apartments and even a lot of single dwellings have electric heaters in the sauna - those are all 3 phase. I have an oil burner to heat my house - it heats water which circulates through my radiators. It's got a backup electric heater in case I run out of oil - that's 3 phase, too.

I am designing a new electric system for my house now where the main panel will have 3 live buses - 1 for each incoming phase. Then I balance out my circuits so the load is more or less evenly distributed across the phases. Properly balanced, 3x25A will allow me to run everything at once especially since I have now switched every lamp in my house to LED.

 

[h22lude]

100% agreed on this note..make sure your main can handle the additional service no matter what size circuit you are adding especially in older homes..
Newer homes usually get 200amp service to the main..mine does.

It was built in the late 80s. The only heavy loads on the panel are two wall AC units, dryer and stove. Everything else is pretty low amps.

 

[Hello]

WTF? I can walk into nearly any store and buy a 40a GFCI switch for 30 euro. Here, we put them in the panel and wire them between the breaker and the load.

Anyway, You can easily get 12000 watts with 240v 30a if you run three phase power. Just use three phase heating elements and forget about it.

It's just a quote from an electrician. I haven't hired them yet.
I had to look into three phase power and I don't think I can get away with that here.

If you are putting in a sub panel, you want the GFCI to live at the connection point of the brewery for the GFCI protection. In this case its the spa panel that is the last stop before the brewery gets plugged in so the GFCI in the main panel is not needed as the spa panel with the GFCI would get tripped before it even got to the main panel if there was an issue.

Okay that makes sense. That is what I intended to have. GFCI is in the spa panel and not in the main panel.

a 50a gfci breaker is $60 if you buy a complete 50a spa panel at the home depot with the breaker installed otherwise they are about $100 separately... sounds like who ever quoted you marked the price up 400% or so...

if you use a regular 30A 2 pole breaker ($10) for the main box and use a 50a gfci spa panel mounted by the outlet (makes a great master kill switch) you still get the gfci protection from the 50a breaker and the overcurrent protection from the main 30a breaker...(This is what I did). the ground fault protection is independent and will work correctly regardless... I was also told its best to have the gfci breaker closest to the load like they are in a kitchen/bathroom or hot tub...

By the way I think 6 guage is required for 50 or 60 amps and 8 is only good for like 40-45amps... could be wrong but thats what I thought I was told when I bought my 10g. I know I needed #6 wire for my hot tub but that is 60a too...

I am not surprised that an electrician's quote is 400% higher than all materials. They get $100-$200 per hour for their work around here.

What I don't understand is how I could only need a 30a two-pole breaker in the main box if I want a 50a panel mounted by the outlet. Wouldn't the main panel need 50a and not 30a? What if I want a 60a panel?

Regardless for me, the spa panel will have a GFCI breaker no matter what on the 240 side. I will have 120 in there as well for other things like a chest freezer, fan and light.

 

[augiedoggy]

It's just a quote from an electrician. I haven't hired them yet.
I had to look into three phase power and I don't think I can get away with that here.

Okay that makes sense. That is what I intended to have. GFCI is in the spa panel and not in the main panel.

I am not surprised that an electrician's quote is 400% higher than all materials. They get $100-$200 per hour for their work around here.

What I don't understand is how I could only need a 30a two-pole breaker in the main box if I want a 50a panel mounted by the outlet. Wouldn't the main panel need 50a and not 30a? What if I want a 60a panel?

Regardless for me, the spa panel will have a GFCI breaker no matter what on the 240 side. I will have 120 in there as well for other things like a chest freezer, fan and light.

you would only be using the GFCI functionality of the 50a spa panel and the breaker as an on off disconnect these features work regardless of the amperage as long as it matches or is below the breakers max rating so no you cant try to pull 60 amps through a 50a breaker but you can put the 50a spa panel inline between a 60a circuit and a 50a outlet and still be safe... the spa panel breaker would just pop before the main 60a one would be likely to if you were drawing over 50 amps...
Ideally you want to match everything up but using a spa panel for gfci function only works just as well in a smaller circuit

 

[augiedoggy]

You can't get three phase in most residential neighborhoods. The transformers in suburban area aren't tapped that anyway in North America (or most other places in the world for that matter).

Residential homes are (relatively speaking) very lower power so they tap for nominal single-phase supply voltages. Not three phase or industrial. There would be no point in offering it as nobody uses anything that would run on three phase in their house.

You can in some isolated cases, but it's extremely rare.

Kal

you can with a phase generator.... We use them on certian intallations with these restrictions for some of our equipment that requires it along with buck/boost transformers... basically you have a mini powerstation

 

[Hello]

you would only be using the GFCI functionality of the 50a spa panel and the breaker as an on off disconnect these features work regardless of the amperage as long as it matches or is below the breakers max rating so no you cant try to pull 60 amps through a 50a breaker but you can put the 50a spa panel inline between a 60a circuit and a 50a outlet and still be safe... the spa panel breaker would just pop before the main 60a one would be likely to if you were drawing over 50 amps...
Ideally you want to match everything up but using a spa panel for gfci function only works just as well in a smaller circuit

I may have to read this a few times, but I am confused now.
How can you use a 30a breaker in the main box that runs to a 50a spa panel? Let's ditch the 60a idea for now.

 

[augiedoggy]

I may have to read this a few times, but I am confused now.
How can you use a 30a breaker in the main box that runs to a 50a spa panel? Let's ditch the 60a idea for now.

its still a 30a line and 30a circuit.... you are just using the 50a spa panel FOR ITS GFCI functionality. coming out of the spa panel would be more 10G wire with a 30a outlet or load wired to it... this works regardless of the amount of amps passing thorough it as long as its less than 50a... Many who do this put a sticker or write "30A service" in case someone else is using the outlet in their house I suppose...

 

[homebrew57]

I may have to read this a few times, but I am confused now.
How can you use a 30a breaker in the main box that runs to a 50a spa panel? Let's ditch the 60a idea for now.

Assuming all the wiring is appropriately sized for 30 amps or higher, the 50 amp spa panel is only used inline between the main and your system for ground fault protection. The 30 amp breaker in the main protects your wiring if your system tries to draw over 30 amps.

 

[augiedoggy]

Assuming all the wiring is appropriately sized for 30 amps or higher, the 50 amp spa panel is only used inline between the main and your system for ground fault protection. The 30 amp breaker in the main protects your wiring if your system tries to draw over 30 amps.

yes exactly what I'm trying to say... it also makes a great kill switch near the control panel or brewery if theres an issue.

 

[kal]

Every residence in Finland, and probably most of the EU as well, has 3 phase power. All european stove-oven combos are 3 phase.

Possibly. However, Wikipedia tells is that "In most countries, household power is single-phase electric power, with two or three wired contacts at each outlet." (source)

Regardless, the original poster is from the US and 3-phase isn't normally offered for residences in North America. It may be available if he lives on a farm that has big machinery or is in a previously industrial part of town / living in a renovated loft / or similar. Having 3 phase in residential in North America is extremely unlikely.

Kal

 

[h22lude]

I may have to read this a few times, but I am confused now.
How can you use a 30a breaker in the main box that runs to a 50a spa panel? Let's ditch the 60a idea for now.

Don't think of the 50A breaker as an actual breaker. Think of it as just a ground fault interrupter. The circuit is a 30A circuit.

 

[augiedoggy]

Possibly. However, Wikipedia tells is that "In most countries, household power is single-phase electric power, with two or three wired contacts at each outlet." (source)

Regardless, the original poster is from the US and 3-phase isn't normally offered for residences in North America. It may be available if he lives on a farm that has big machinery or is in a previously industrial part of town / living in a renovated loft / or similar. Having 3 phase in residential in North America is extremely unlikely.

Kal

did you notice that wikipedia did mention that my area (Niagara falls/buffalo) is still using "True two phase" power in some areas.... I remember the power company forcing use to rewire the restaurant I worked for as the maint dept because we were on this "Old work system" We also had aluminum wire mains which they forced us to convert to copper (my house still uses copper clad aluminum mains)

 

[Hello]

Assuming all the wiring is appropriately sized for 30 amps or higher, the 50 amp spa panel is only used inline between the main and your system for ground fault protection. The 30 amp breaker in the main protects your wiring if your system tries to draw over 30 amps.

yes exactly what I'm trying to say... it also makes a great kill switch near the control panel or brewery if theres an issue.

Yeah it does. That was my hope. Between you two, I get it a bit more now. I guess I thought a 50a spa panel was pulling 50a and with that, how would that happen if the breaker is 30a on the main panel? That is where I got lost.

Don't think of the 50A breaker as an actual breaker. Think of it as just a ground fault interrupter. The circuit is a 30A circuit.

Well this makes me think you can do this on your own!

But my control panel is 50a. I intend to run two 5500w heat sticks together. I think my main panel needs to have something that will run that, no? You're looking at only 30a, so I get why you'd need 30.

 

[homebrew57]

yes you would need a 50 amp breaker in your main panel and the correct size wiring. For the spa panel, you could use a 50 amp spa panel or a 60 amp spa panel with the same theory as above with the 30 amp example. The spa panel doesn't "pull" any amperage. It is only a door for the electrical power to go through. You panel is what pulls the amps.

 

[bbohanon]

But my control panel is 50a. I intend to run two 5500w heat sticks together. I think my main panel needs to have something that will run that, no? You're looking at only 30a, so I get why you'd need 30.

If you intend on running 2 5500watt elements at the same time(meaning more than one element actively on at the same time), you will need full 50amp service for your brewery.
30amp service will not be enough to safely run them both unless your plan is to only run them as a "only one element actively on at a time" configuration in which 30amp service to the brewery would be sufficient.

This was my whole argument for just going full out on a 50amp service from main to sub(if your main can handle 50amp service to a sub).
Future proofs you if you ever need it.

 

[h22lude]

Well this makes me think you can do this on your own!

Doing some research and understanding is different than doing lol


Just out of curiosity, would plugging this into my dryer outlet work? It is either a 30A or 50A breaker. Probably not GFCI though.