Corny key daisy chain fermentation

[horseinmay]

I've developed a new method to my fermentations lately that I wanted to share. I've been linking up my corny kegs and using the pressure of the fermentation to transfer the beer from one keg to another, and also to even out the volume of the batch between the kegs.
I brew 5 or 10 gallon batches, but rarely get exactly that amount. What I've been doing is filling each keg with about 4 gallons, and then linking them together during fermentation. Keg 1 will have a jumper from the beer post to the beer post of keg 2. Then keg 2 will have a jumper from the gas post to the beer post of keg 3. Each subsequent keg is linked to the next the same as #2 is to #3. At the end of the line, I open the pressure relief valve where all the gases of fermentation can escape.
I pitch the yeast into keg 1, and overnight, the keg will push itself into the next vessels, each one evening out at the full level. The last keg in the chain will receive the blowoff, and any excess beer that won't fit into the other kegs. This way, I don't have to manage each fermenting keg, with it's own blowoff, or deal with measuring headspace. It's self adjusting.

Is anyone else doing something similar? I like the way it turns out and wanted to know if anyone doing similar experiments is having good results or has any ideas to add.

 

[noggins]

pics?

 

[JSomps6]

this is a joke right?

 

[Bobby_M]

It won't work. Any keg where the path of least resistance is the beer out will empty itself throughout fermentation. They wouldn't self level and you'd probably end up with beer coming out of the airlock on the last keg.

 

[horseinmay]

pics?

Here's a drawing to make everything more clear. JSomps6 - this is not a joke. I've been doing it for the past few batches, and it works great.

As you can see in the drawing, partial kegs will consolidate themselves into full kegs, and all of the fermentation gases will do the work until they are released from the last keg in the chain. I've shown 4 kegs in a row for what looks like an 8 gallon batch. You would only actually need 3 kegs in this situation. For a 12 gallon batch (for instance, you could use 4 kegs, ending up with keg#1-empty, Keg#2-full, keg#3-full, keg#4-partially full.

Bobby M - notice the routing of the hoses. Except for the connection between the first two kegs, all beer flows out through the gas post, and into the next keg through the beer post. Thus, each connection is an overflow to the next keg.

What I have been doing is pitching a large starter into the first keg, and once it begins to take off, it builds pressure, forcing the beer (now at high krauesen) into the next keg, thus pitching yeast into the next vessel. At the end of the first day, keg #1 always ends up empty. That's how you know it's all working out.

 

[kpr121]

I don't have anything intelligent to say right now, but I am intrigued and subscribed in the idea.

 

[JSomps6]

So after fermentation you have 4 cornys to clean instead of 2 carboys? For 8 gallon batches I use 2 6 gallon carboys. with two gallons of headspace you may or may not need a blow off tube. Just seems like a lot more set up (sanitizing) and cleaning (in poppets, etc) afterwards... Plus I know I rarely have 4 kegs available to set something like this up. Sounds like you got some brewing to do!

 

[motobrewer]

what problem is this solving exactly?

i'm having a real hard time grasping this concept. why in the world would i want half-full kegs?

 

[horseinmay]

If you ferment in glass or don't like to clean kegs, then maybe this won't help you. What this method accomplishes is leaving you with minimal headspace in each keg by moving the headspace around in the system. At the end of the process, you will have a number of full kegs, and one keg that is less than full. For example. . .11 gallon batch, use 4 kegs. Put 3-4 gallons into each of the first three vessels, and chain them together as I've shown. Pitch yeast into keg#1, and walk away. In 24 hours, you will have an empty keg#1. Keg#2 and #3 will be full to 5 gallons, and keg #4 will have about a gallon in it. You can link any number of kegs together (20 gallon batch?) and never have to worry about how much headspace is in each keg or what to do about a blowoff. At the end of the process, there is only 1 extra keg to clean.

 

[Boleslaus]

Wouldn't you be overpitching the first keg if you are making a massive starter?

 

[horseinmay]

I don't think it would be overpitching, especially seeing as most people would not consider overpitching to use a full yeast cake on a 5 gallon batch.

 

[kpr121]

Do you see exact consistancies between the multiple kegs? I think this is a cool idea if you want multiple kegs to taste exactly the same.

 

[jkarp]

Here's a drawing to make everything more clear. JSomps6 - this is not a joke. I've been doing it for the past few batches, and it works great.

That's quite clever. Done correctly, you'd only have one keg - the 1st - to clean. I assume you're just blowing out the yeast cake then before tapping?

 

[Boleslaus]

I don't think it would be overpitching, especially seeing as most people would not consider overpitching to use a full yeast cake on a 5 gallon batch.

But it is overpitching to use a full yeast cake.

 

[mechanic79]

Drudging up an old thread. This is still the most current thread on the subject via google searches?!?!? Since 2011, has anyone else tried this method of fermenting?
I'm sick of glass carboys (broke 2 for 6), switched to plastic, but plastic flavor has come up in competition notes on a couple beers, and other stainless steel fermenters are expensive and heavy if I ever had to move the fermenter. So daisy chaining and/or cascading, multiple soda/corny kegs sounds like a solution for fermentation, especially with some talks of using a Spunding Valve for fermentation under pressure.

Ferment 16.5 gallons of wort: 6 soda kegs connected together like the OP. 4.125 gallons of wort in the first 4, the last two empty, except the very last one would have a spunding valve attached to the gas connection. Also would use this Stainless Steel Scrubing Pads surrounding the OUT liquid dip tube to help filter out trub to reduce plugging the poppet valve assembly on the first keg and used stainless steel braiding on the IN dip tube of the next four kegs. Pitch yeast in the first keg and let it fly?

 

[Magnus314]

Would these kegs end up carbonated if you use the spunding valve?

 

[agrazela]

Keg centipede?

 

[mechanic79]

Would these kegs end up carbonated if you use the spunding valve?

Yes, I believe that's how the spunding valve works.

 

[day_trippr]

If any of the poppets or dip tubes were to plug up during the effervescent phase of fermentation, is a PRV expected to save the bacon?

Cheers!

 

[Magnus314]

Yes, I believe that's how the spunding valve works.

I'm not challenging you, just asking. I understand how a spunding works on a bright tank or a single corny.

There's a big difference between the headspace on 1 keg and 2 full kegs of "head" space plus 4 kegs-worth of headspace.

If it works, that's pretty awesome! Makes me wish I knew how to catch CO2 like German breweries to force carb with "natural" CO2.

 

[Paps]

Interesting concept but i'm not sure it would be worth tying up the kegs.

 

[NeoBrew]

I can see where it is a lot of work to setup and clean everything. For me it might have some merit. I can fit 5 kegs into my fermentation chamber, but not two 6 gallon carboys.

 

[SGTSparty]

Possibly Newb question here but how do you deal w/ the Trub/Yeast Cake?

 

[IslandLizard]

That looks like a huge amount of work to prep and then clean all those kegs! Why exactly the daisy chaining?

Plus, if a poppet clogs, you're bound for danger and a huge mess. If I would go that route, I would remove the posts and dip tubes and stick a stopper or a small piece of tubing on the stub with an airlock in it.

To answer your Q, those scrubbies don't hold much back. Hop fibers will still get tangled up in the poppet springs.

Some ferment in 1/2 barrel Sanke kegs. Now that's a different story, but they're pricey, especially if you get those with a 2" Triclover flange welded on (>$200).

What's wrong with using plastic buckets? Or one of those Chronicals?

 

[kingmatt]

D
I'm sick of glass carboys (broke 2 for 6), switched to plastic, but plastic flavor has come up in competition notes on a couple beers,

If you are using food grade plastic (better bottles, ale pails) the plastic flavor isn't coming from your fermenter.

 

[mechanic79]

I brewed a pale ale last saturday using both whole leaf hops and pellet hops. about 7 oz of each. OG 1.049 with 1056 yeast.

So far, keg 1 (yeast pitched in keg 1 only) is empty and 2, 3, 4, 5 are full. I took the spunding valve off of Keg 7 and put on Keg 6. Keg 6 is still empty. and keg 7 is completely disconnected from the daisy chain.
I used two extra kegs at the end of the daisy chain just in case of head pressure from fermenting close to 20 gallons. but I see it was not necessary to use an extra keg.

Here is another article I stumbled across:
Closed System Fermenting in corny kegs.
http://www.biabrewer.info/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=1933
I like the fact the wort / beer never touches the atmosphere after pitching yeast until it pours from the faucet into the glass.

Possibly Newb question here but how do you deal w/ the Trub/Yeast Cake?

I'm wondering where the yeast is going to end up as well.
Evenly distributed through the 4 full kegs (kegs 2, 3, 4, 5)?
or
All the yeast in the last full keg (keg 5) before the spunding valve keg (Keg 6)?
after a week fermenting, I'm going to cold crash the kegs to knock yeast out of suspension. then using a picnic faucet tap each keg until I find the yeast. once I find the yeast I'll pour it out until the beer is clear and counter-pressure transfer the keg with the yeast into another keg without disturbing remaining yeast.

That looks like a huge amount of work to prep and then clean all those kegs! Why exactly the daisy chaining?

Plus, if a poppet clogs, you're bound for danger and a huge mess. If I would go that route, I would remove the posts and dip tubes and stick a stopper or a small piece of tubing on the stub with an airlock in it.

To answer your Q, those scrubbies don't hold much back. Hop fibers will still get tangled up in the poppet springs.

Some ferment in 1/2 barrel Sanke kegs. Now that's a different story, but they're pricey, especially if you get those with a 2" Triclover flange welded on (>$200).

What's wrong with using plastic buckets? Or one of those Chronicals?

I ended up using a ss braid hose covering instead of the SS brillow pad. Just like batch sparging in a cooler mash tun. I don't see how the poppets would clog with the ss braid/filter???

Corny kegs can handle higher pressure than conicals and corny kegs costs are less. This is the only solution for being able to move 20+ gallons of beer if needed, 5 gallons at a time.

Cleaning kegs is easy. dump out and rinse, close them back up, Daisy Chain them and run cleaning solution through all at once. couldn't be simpler or easier.

 

[mechanic79]

A picture is worth a thousand words, right?
The only things different is the first keg is using a ss braid hose not the ss scrubber.
none of the dip tubes are cut.
BL= ball lock, PL= pin lock. Only the last (pin lock keg) IN tube doesn't extend into the keg. it's almost flush with the top.

 

[Magnus314]

Looks great!

This seems like a ton less work if it turns out good, carbonated beer at the end.

Are you purging them all with CO2 before you start, or are you letting the yeast scrub it?

 

[mechanic79]

Looks great!

This seems like a ton less work if it turns out good, carbonated beer at the end.

Are you purging them all with CO2 before you start, or are you letting the yeast scrub it?

I'm oxygenating the wort from the brew kettle, I see no need to purge the kegs with co2. I dumped in the wort and yeast in the first keg and let the yeast pressurize them and work their magic. I did wait about 36 hours before I attached the Spunding valve. During the first 36 hours I left the last keg's pressure relief valve cracked open.

I'm most curious to see if the yeast will be equally dispersed in the four full kegs or if all the yeast will be in the last full keg, just before the Spunding valve keg.

 

[horseinmay]

I've been doing this successfully since I started this thread. No problems with clogging since I leave all the hop trub in the kettle. Never had a blowout or any other issues. I don't use a strainer or anything else that isn't part of the keg.

The yeast will be equally dispersed in each keg.

In order to get the yeast from the first keg to the last, you will want to fill every keg fully except the first one, as it's acting as a starter incubator. Once it gets going it will push through the first keg, and send yeast rich wort cascading all the way to the end.
If you don't fill each one up, then the final keg may not get anything but the blowoff krausen from the prior keg. It's important that a substantial amount of wort travels from the beginning, via full kegs overflowing, to the last chamber.