Coopers Brew Kits...

[jmcdaniel0]

I assume from the out right that I messed something, when my first batch didnt come out the way I expected.

I am just starting out, I bought the coopers home brewing kit because it came recommended from a friend, and I was told it was quality, and had everything I would need to start off.

Of course I tried the included lager can.

I am looking to eventually get my skill enough to do all grain. I am an Organic Chemist, with a second degree in Physics, So the numbers behind why and how it works doesnt bother me. Its just the processes I need to get down. In this case all the knowledge in the world isnt worth a cent, when it comes to a more experienced brewer. Of which I have found several here.

So I am going to take the plunge, go into extract kits, and move logically and slowly up wards. Along the way, I hope t make some great tasting beer. If they dont come out right, then well, my sink can have a drink on me. Either way most of the fun is the getting there.

With all that said.

Here are the contents of my Kit I have set up. WHat else do I need to move on into extract and eventually all grain?

# 1 Plastic 30 liter fermenter with lid (and o ring),
makes 23 liters (6 Gallons)
# 1 Hydrometer
# 1 Sediment Reducer
# 1 Plastic Spoon
# 1 "Little Bottler" tube and bottling valve
# 1 Tap
# 1 Airlock
# 1 Airlock grommet
# 1 Thermometer
# 30 740ml PET bottles and caps

 

[THRobinson]

Jamil and John did an episode of Brew Strong on Extract kits. They 'discovered' to Jamil's amazement that kits don't get the respect that they should deserve. It really boils down to freshness of ingredients and the brewers process. The biggest majority of 'bad' beers truly is the brewers fault. They pretty much support unionrdr's points.

http://www.thebrewingnetwork.com/shows/698

Takes a while to skip past the ads in that audio link, but from what I heard near the end, he was surprised it came out well, but later says it's good but not as good as other methods. As well, it sounded like they come out well, but, doesn't sound like they're doing it by the directions. For a newbie like myself, I followed the directions and didn't add anything or deviate from the boiling times etc. If it said rolling boil for 1 hour, that's all I did.

They also said 'experiment' with it so... I wouldn't say it's usually the brewer's fault if they don't turn out, just depends on the level of experience to know when to deviate from the basic directions (which I don't yet).

Perhaps we shouldn't be debating the kits, rather the directions being too basic.

 

[jollytim]

They also said 'experiment' with it so... I wouldn't say it's usually the brewer's fault if they don't turn out, just depends on the level of experience to know when to deviate from the basic directions (which I don't yet).

I would say exactly that. I mean that's the point. That is why most people poo-poo kits as opposed to PM or AG. They usually are beginners when they do kits, and they don't turn out stellar. They move on to steeping, partial mashes, and all grain. By the time they get to that point, their process has improved. That is the main difference. Of course freshness of PM and AG, if all else is equal, but it usually isn't equal. They have more skill. Most usually don't go back to kits, or give them the same amount of attention. If they took their more advanced skill, and applied it to kits, just as they would an advanced technique, they would discover the same thing that Jamil and John point out in that episode. Most veterans deviate from the 'instructions' all the time, because they know the process.

They aren't claiming that beginners will rival veterans at any level. They are claiming that veterans attribute their success to the grain (whole vs extract) and not to the skill level attained. Get the basics down, and whatever method you use, will be MUCH better.

Perhaps we shouldn't be debating the kits, rather the directions being too basic.

I agree 100%. The directions should be much better. And they are on this board. Now that you are here, please read as much as you can. Learn about fresh ingredients, late extract additions, and temperature control. You will then be prepared to make exponentially better kit beers.

 

[C-Rider]

I agree about the poor instructions. I've done 3 cooper's kits and the instruction sheet is the same for the 2 ales and one wheat beer.

Trying to rush the whole thing in 3 weeks is why the results are what they are. I've moved on to extract + specialty grains. I only have one 1500 watt hotplate to cook on. No stove

My friend did a Cooper's ale last Sunday and wants to bottle today. I'm trying to talk him into waiting at least until next Sat. He opened it yesterday to check SG and then sent email saying he should bottle now. Tried to tell him to slow down.

 

[tomheff]

I don't know, was a while back... tried a few times, even left it in the fermenter a few extra weeks with no luck. Alcohol % was fine, fermentation stopped... not sure if the yeast died (on all 4 attempts) or what.

Original thread was here. Had a few suggestions, but most seemed to suggest not using the can-kits.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/will-beer-get-less-sweet-age-166665/

You used 1 kg of dextrose. Coopers recommends 500 grams of DME when making the English Bitter. If you want additional aroma hops, it's easy to add. You mentioned you couldn't find DME or anything else. Now apparently you can.

 

[Yooper]

Here are the contents of my Kit I have set up. WHat else do I need to move on into extract and eventually all grain?

# 1 Plastic 30 liter fermenter with lid (and o ring),
makes 23 liters (6 Gallons)
# 1 Hydrometer
# 1 Sediment Reducer
# 1 Plastic Spoon
# 1 "Little Bottler" tube and bottling valve
# 1 Tap
# 1 Airlock
# 1 Airlock grommet
# 1 Thermometer
# 30 740ml PET bottles and caps

I don't even know what some of that stuff is! What's a "sediment reducer"?

You need a siphon setup, a bucket with a lid and a hole in it, an airlock, hydrometer and basic cooking utensils to start. A 5 gallon batch fills about 50 12 ounce bottles (PET is fine). Here's a good reference: http://howtobrew.com/section1/chapter1-1.html

I would say exactly that. I mean that's the point. That is why most people poo-poo kits as opposed to PM or AG. They usually are beginners when they do kits, and they don't turn out stellar.

I would never poo-poo a kit I haven't tried. I wouldn't call myself a beginner, and both Cooper's and John Bull canned LME kits were virtually undrinkable by me. I understand temperature control, yeast health, etc. My friend ended up drinking all of it over a bit of time, but it was NEVER what I would call "good". She drank it and enjoyed it, but I thought it was swill.

You know, quality is important no matter what you're making. You can make a batch of great spaghetti, or you can open a can of spaghettio's. Coopers is Spaghettio's. Some people can tolerate it, but if you open a bottle of the best-made Cooper's and a bottle of Sierra Nevada, I think no one would claim the Cooper's is a craft beer. Drinkable, possibly, especially for non-beer snobs. But not "good".

 

[jollytim]

Yes, Yooper, I understand quality is important. In fact, I mentioned that later in my post, in a section that wasn't quoted.

I guess I should specify that I'm not defending Coopers. I'm defending kit beers, and the quality does vary. I've had kits that were.... eh. And I've had kits that I would put up against the majority of AG beers that I've had. Not every AG brewer is a superior brewer, just as not every kit brewer is an inferior brewer. I know you didn't say they were, I'm just clarifying.

And as you point out, you didn't care for the Coopers, but I would bet good money that the Coopers you made was FAR superior to the same kit made by a beginner. And if you turned your advanced skill to some of the other quality kits out there, you'd be amazed.

 

[superjunior]

I don't even know what some of that stuff is! What's a "sediment reducer"? .

just a little plastic insert that fits on the inside of the spigot (on the inside of the bucket) that faces upward as to not suck in the sediment below it.

 

[tomheff]

I don't even know what some of that stuff is! What's a "sediment reducer"?

You need a siphon setup, a bucket with a lid and a hole in it, an airlock, hydrometer and basic cooking utensils to start. A 5 gallon batch fills about 50 12 ounce bottles (PET is fine). Here's a good reference: http://howtobrew.com/section1/chapter1-1.html



I would never poo-poo a kit I haven't tried. I wouldn't call myself a beginner, and both Cooper's and John Bull canned LME kits were virtually undrinkable by me. I understand temperature control, yeast health, etc. My friend ended up drinking all of it over a bit of time, but it was NEVER what I would call "good". She drank it and enjoyed it, but I thought it was swill.

You know, quality is important no matter what you're making. You can make a batch of great spaghetti, or you can open a can of spaghettio's. Coopers is Spaghettio's. Some people can tolerate it, but if you open a bottle of the best-made Cooper's and a bottle of Sierra Nevada, I think no one would claim the Cooper's is a craft beer. Drinkable, possibly, especially for non-beer snobs. But not "good".

http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/pages/zymurgy/online-extras/extract-wheat-beer-experiment

 

[Yooper]

And if you turned your advanced skill to some of the other quality kits out there, you'd be amazed.

Ah, but I HAVE done other kits! That's why I say the Cooper's and John Bull kits are garbage! I think the problem is that they are imported and the canned LME might sit on the shelf for a long time (years?) and the extract will not be as good as fresh.

I've done Brewer's Best (really pretty good!) and kits made up by austinhomebrew.com and also northernbrewer.com.

The AHS kits were outstanding, and I would say that I made a world-class beer with them. Better than you'd get at many brewpubs! The Northern Brewer were excellent- fresh grains crushed, and fresh LME and really good. The reason I lean more towards AHS is because they have like 10,000 kinds so you can make ANY beer you want.

The Brewer's Bests were pretty good, but you have to watch because sometimes they sit on a store's shelves a long time. The canned LME was ok, but not as fresh as the fresh LME in AHS and NB's kits.

With AHS and NB (and Midwest and Brewmaster's Warehouse, and probably morebeer), they actually don't make up the kit until you order it. You order it, they pour the LME and crush the grains and send them out. That makes a huge difference, and you can taste it.

I've done lots of kits, and for my son-in-law's birthday, he's getting a kit! I'm going to buy him an extract kit with steeping grains from AHS, probably this one: http://www.austinhomebrew.com/produ...=2170&osCsid=ae73163bb4945caa9865f9f262450bea
Part of his birthday gift will be one-on-one instructions and the chance to use some of my cool stuff!

My friend has a mr. beer and she LOVES the beer she makes. She always offers me one, and of course I take it! They aren't terrible, but they have a distinct "flavor" that comes from prehopped extract I guess. I can tell a mr. Beer beer a mile away, and the same is true with Cooper's. They have a distinct syrupy (although not sweet) flavor that I call "extract twang". My guess is it's because of the time spent in the can, and the prehopped extract. I think if it was super fresh, it would totally change- like the extract brews I've done with homebrew stores.

 

[C-Rider]

http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/pages/zymurgy/online-extras/extract-wheat-beer-experiment

Wow! Right now I'm conditioning a Cooper's Wheat.

Two week primary
Tow weeks conditioning.

Looking very clear in the bottles

Chilling one now to taste in a few hours.

 

[lou2row]

Okay; way, way, waaayyyyyyy off topic:

Yooper, your little bunny ear avatar is adorable! What a cutie pie!

 

[jollytim]

I'm glad we had a chance to have this exchange Yooper. I see that we are actually in agreement. Perhaps the fact that this is a 'Coopers' thread led to a miscontruement. Like I said, I am not championing Coopers, but kits. And I'll repeat, quality does vary.

An experienced brewer can make an extract, or kit beer (depending on the kit) that rivals or exceeds the majority of AG beers out there. I know because I've done so, and so have you.

Now given, all things being equal, such as skill level, AG will most likely be superior. But we both know that most AG brewers are not exceptional. Present party excepted of course. I've learned a lot from you, and feel you probably are the most helpful Mod on this board. We've both been at his probably about he same amount of time, so don't let the post count or time registered fool you.

Now, I post a query. Could not the Coopers that you consider garbage, suffer from being too old? I mean, I've never seen a Coopers extract or kit that didn't have dust on the top and a faded label. Personally I've never bought a Coopers kit for that reason. I have no idea of their production process. They could be sub-par from the outset.

Could be the can too, I agree with the Mr. Beer description. I believe that the 'twang' that is oft bantered about is from the metallic taste from the can (though a lot of it is the inexperienced lumping together any unknown taste, such as green beer, collectively as twang). But here too, I've not seen a 'fresh' Mr. Beer extract.

That being said, I still don't think that these kits, even the Cooper's are as bad as the reputation states. To a more sophisticated palette, yes. But the majority of people brewing them ARE beginners and beginners make mistakes. The judgement of the final product usually seems to neglect the mistakes and blame the quality of the kit. Maybe those kits would never be World-Class, but that doesn't mean they are the nemesis either.

Plus to say unequivocally, that 'Coopers is garbage' may communicate to the people that really like Coopers, that they somehow are ignorant (for lack of a better word). I would rather try to draw more people into the hobby and not exclude them just because they prefer something I may not.

 

[kegtapper]

With all that said.

Here are the contents of my Kit I have set up. WHat else do I need to move on into extract and eventually all grain?

# 1 Plastic 30 liter fermenter with lid (and o ring),
makes 23 liters (6 Gallons)
# 1 Hydrometer
# 1 Sediment Reducer
# 1 Plastic Spoon
# 1 "Little Bottler" tube and bottling valve
# 1 Tap
# 1 Airlock
# 1 Airlock grommet
# 1 Thermometer
# 30 740ml PET bottles and caps

Get a pot big enough for doing full boils and a thermometer. I still use my coopers kit with extract. But the lid can be a big pita.

 

[GreenDragon]

Bout to bottle the Cooper's wheat kit this coming weekend. The FG sample I tasted a few days ago was very good for a not-quite-done, room temp, non-carbed, wheat kit. I didn't use the yeast that came with it though, I used Wyeast 3333 (American Wheat). Aside from the yeast it's all Cooper's though.

 

[unionrdr]

Well said jollytim. That's pretty much what I've been trying to convey. With proper precautions,Cooper's kits can come out quite good. But I also think they're great "building blocks". Combining them with other ingredients to improve them,or change them into another style is a lot of fun to me.
But,as I said before,if it comes out bad,blame the brewer,not the brew. They only have limitations if you let them.

 

[Pivzavod]

Coopers ingredients kits are nothing special, I've done 2 and never will go back. Their fermentors are the best on the market. I will pick their fermentor any day over Better Bottle.

 

[shawnbou]

Coopers ingredients kits are nothing special, I've done 2 and never will go back. Their fermentors are the best on the market. I will pick their fermentor any day over Better Bottle.

I agree. I use Better Bottles for secondary (when I do it) and bulk aging, but I use Coopers fermenters exclusively for primary. I loved my first one so much I bought a second Coopers beginner kit, and if I ever have to retire one of the fermenters I have, I'll most likely buy another kit just to get that fermenter. I can always find something to do with the rest of the stuff in that kit: use the LME to make starters, the corn sugar for priming, etc.

My first 4 brews were Coopers ingredient kits and I wasn't all that pleased with the results, even when I didn't follow the 1-week-primary / 2-weeks-in-bottles regimen in the directions. Now I'm doing AG and making much better beer, but I won't bash Coopers because they did get me into the hobby. There may be some people out there who start with Coopers and hate the results so much that they're turned off of homebrewing forever, and that's a shame ... but I'm sure that there are many more like me who get inspired to make better beer and move on to more traditional methods and ingredients.

Sure, Coopers simplifies things way too much, but that's not always a bad thing for a novice, especially in a hobby with so many factors and so much collected knowledge that it can be intimidating when you're just stepping into it. I don't ever plan to make another Coopers kit myself, but I would recommend it as an option for someone who wants to start homebrewing and isn't sure where to begin.

 

[tomheff]

Coopers was rated as the most fermentable malt extract in Ray Daniels' book "Designing Great Beers" on p.15.

The yeast in the beer kits is high quality. BTW, there is more than one variety used.

The original series yeast is an English ale strain similar to one that the Coopers uses in its bottle-conditioned ales. This strain was adapted for the homebrewing kits. They also uses another English ale strain and a Lager strain and some blends in their other kits.

Coopers has about a 60% market share worldwide when it comes to home beermaking kits. That is testament to their quality. The US market is predominately a hobbyist market where the brewer wants more of hands-on experience. However, as Unionrdr has stated you can use the Coopers beer kits as building blocks to enhance your experience. The IBUs and other data of each kit are published allowing the user to understand what he/she needs to do customize a kit to meet their palate. This makes for a lot shorter brewing day. The brewer can make beers more often and expensive equipment is not required. Remember this when the weather turns real nice and you don't want to spend the better part of a day making a beer. Particularly when it's hot outside and you have to fire up that 10 gallon burner.

 

[tomheff]

My first 4 brews were Coopers ingredient kits and I wasn't all that pleased with the results, even when I didn't follow the 1-week-primary / 2-weeks-in-bottles regimen in the directions. Now I'm doing AG and making much better beer, but I won't bash Coopers because they did get me into the hobby. There may be some people out there who start with Coopers and hate the results so much that they're turned off of homebrewing forever, and that's a shame ... but I'm sure that there are many more like me who get inspired to make better beer and move on to more traditional methods and ingredients.

Just to be fair. I have run across many that started homebrewing with extract and steeping grains and have never brewed again because the results were subpar and it wasn't worth the effort. Also, I have tasted more extract "twang" from these beers than those made from Coopers beer kits. You are correct about the over-simplification. But that is what makes it attractive to many beginners. "Making Beer the Hard Way", http://www.mnn.com/food/beverages/videos/diy-beer-the-hard-way is not a good marketing strategy to draw in new homebrewers.

 

[mbosco]

Hate to pile on, but I agree with most of the responses here. My first brew was also the Coopers lager. Left in primary 2.5 weeks at 68F, bottled and didn't touch it for two weeks and like many have said it was pretty cidery and not particularly enjoyable. Drinkable, yes, but not much more than that. Had a similar result with the Coopers Stout kit.

Switched over to non-hopped extract kits both with and without specialty grains (but no big bags of sugar) and it is a night and day difference. Mine have all been from a LHBS, but the links posted to online sites are just as good.

The Coopers kit was nice in that is was soooo easy, unfortunately I don't see much benefit beyond that. Love the fermentor and it got me started in a new hobby, but I'd look elsewhere for extract kits.

 

[C-Rider]

Hate to pile on, but I agree with most of the responses here. My first brew was also the Coopers lager. Left in primary 2.5 weeks at 68F, bottled and didn't touch it for two weeks and like many have said it was pretty cidery and not particularly enjoyable. Drinkable, yes, but not much more than that. Had a similar result with the Coopers Stout kit.

Switched over to non-hopped extract kits both with and without specialty grains (but no big bags of sugar) and it is a night and day difference. Mine have all been from a LHBS, but the links posted to online sites are just as good.

The Coopers kit was nice in that is was soooo easy, unfortunately I don't see much benefit beyond that. Love the fermentor and it got me started in a new hobby, but I'd look elsewhere for extract kits.

Shouldn't the Cooper's Lager and any other lager ferment in the range 50-55*?
Maybe that was part of the problem. I'm on my 3rd Cooper's Kit and have no real problems, pretty good stuff, better than BMC. But I have moved to Extract and Grains and will soon know the difference.

 

[unionrdr]

Shouldn't the Cooper's Lager and any other lager ferment in the range 50-55*?
Maybe that was part of the problem. I'm on my 3rd Cooper's Kit and have no real problems, pretty good stuff, better than BMC. But I have moved to Extract and Grains and will soon know the difference.

Maybe with the Thomas Cooper's Select lager kit. It uses a lager yeast. The O.S. lager kit uses ale yeast that is best between 68F-72F. I brewed both of my OS lager kits at 20C (69F). They come out pretty good. Crystal clear. Just checked the "Summer Pale" ale I've got in bottles,& it's already very clear amber. My 1st OS lager kit came with brewing sugar,which works way better than straight dextrose. It's 80% dex,20% maltodextrin. I think it made the color & flavor better,as you can see in my avatar.
I'm thinking of using the Cooper's dark ale kit with some plain amber DME to make a whiskely ale.

 

[MrStrangeBrew]

not great beer is better then no beer! sometimes those kits dont use the best of ingredients or sit on the shelves for a long time and they go bad. any LHBS in your area? sometimes they will put kits together for u. a little more pricey but fresh ingrdients and if done right usually great beer is made!

 

[unionrdr]

Good processes make good beer. A bad process will make bad beer out of a good kit. I can't stress this enough. If it comes out bad,hate the brewer,not the brew. All extract brewing has it's own rules,as I'm quickly learning. One of these days,I'll get'em all in my head at once,& write them down.
I get good beer out of cooper's kits,especially when making my own recipes with extracts,hops,etc. I like to call it my "recombinant extract" theory. Different countries add different things to the malts made in them,depending on what's popular there. LME or DME,mix-n-match. Match the hops to the flavors produced by the yeast,& better all around balance can be had. I think that's why a certain style of beer uses a certain type/range of hops. Match'em to the yeast to add complexity/balance. In my experience,it looks that way.

 

[shawnbou]

You are correct about the over-simplification. But that is what makes it attractive to many beginners. "Making Beer the Hard Way", http://www.mnn.com/food/beverages/videos/diy-beer-the-hard-way is not a good marketing strategy to draw in new homebrewers.

I agree 100% with you there, tomheff. Sometimes simple is good. That's why I said I would recommend Coopers as an option to a new homebrewer who's not sure where to start. Coopers does a lot to introduce new brewers to the hobby and is an easier place to start for anyone who is confused and intimidated by the wealth of information online and at the local HBS (which my wife ranks up there with the comic book store as to the degree and intensity of geekdom that's there).

And I don't doubt that there are plenty of people out there making good beer with Coopers kits, just as there are plenty of people out there making terrible beer from all grain.

 

[Vuarra]

...which my wife ranks up there with the comic book store as to the degree and intensity of geekdom that's there

Bingo!

I will never disagree with Yooper, I think (from what I know of her) that she has more beer knowledge in her pinky than I do in my entire house, but I will never stop a beginner from brewing a Coopers. I will tell that person to throw out the instructions, and follow what other people told me to follow a few years ago.

My son just loves Spagetti-ohs! Me, not so much.

I think that we all agree with the basic, but some people are not as interested in the simple cans that are ubiquitous in North America as others are. That's what makes our culture great.

 

[PT Ray]

Good processes make good beer. A bad process will make bad beer out of a good kit..

Precisely!

After revisiting Coopers kits last year for the first time since the early 90's I was sold. It was nothing like I remember when I first started brewing. It's not like brewing with all fresh ingredients but it certainly can hold its own. Most of my brewing over the last year involved Coopers extract and yeast. Sometimes it was extract, partial or a mini-mash. Then there were some all grains in between which most of the time used yeast slurry from a Coopers batch.

 

[unionrdr]

Precisely!

After revisiting Coopers kits last year for the first time since the early 90's I was sold. It was nothing like I remember when I first started brewing. It's not like brewing with all fresh ingredients but it certainly can hold its own. Most of my brewing over the last year involved Coopers extract and yeast. Sometimes it was extract, partial or a mini-mash. Then there were some all grains in between which most of the time used yeast slurry from a Coopers batch.

Glad you agree. I had to douse myself with beer from all the flaming. But I knew that was coming when I sat down at the comp. I just couldn't understand why folks think it's the beer,& not their process. Naaaaw,...couldn't be me!?...lolz. I'm still having fun combining them with other DME's,LME's,hops,etc. But,I'm going to,at some point in the near future,play around with some grains to put back what is chemically lost in concentrating/drying of the wort. Just have to read up on what will match up well with a given can/style. Kind of ironic that you used washed yeast from a Cooper's kit for an AG brew. I like that one!*by the way,does PT Ray mean you're on probetalk.com?

 

[PT Ray]

Kind of ironic that you used washed yeast from a Cooper's kit for an AG brew. I like that one!*by the way,does PT Ray mean you're on probetalk.com?[/FONT]

Coopers yeast is just as good as any other dried yeast. Their Original Series yeast is a proprietary English strain contracted through Mauri who manufactures yeast for the beverage industry out of Australia. Coopers isn't very forth coming about the source for the other strains that they use other than they are commercially available.

The Original Series obviously shines where you want an English flavor. I've also used it down into the low 60's to suppress some of the esters. The yeast that comes with their Premium Selection series is one of my all around favorites. It's an ale/lager blend and ferments well anywhere from 50-68 degrees. If you want to ferment low you will need more than just the 7 gram sachet. That's where I'll repitch about 200ml of slurry for a 5 gallon batch. When I want a true lager I'll break out some White Labs 0830 German Lager yeast.

No I'm not on ProbeTalk. I'm a rotorhead and can be found on Rx7Club.com from time to time.

 

[unionrdr]

I'll have to look it up again,but I found a EU yeast that fit the description of the Cooper's Original Series ale yeast. I'm pretty sure it's called ringwood. Just like the hops used in the OS cans. I remember them saying it was notorious throughout Europe,for something.?...Was curious about the PT thing,since that's our slang for probetalk. I've been on the rx7site. Won best in class with my Probe SE at their Midwest Mazdafest show last May. I've got a vid on youtube about it.
Aaaanyway,I found the yeast in the white/silver sachet is no longer available from many online suppliers. It looked like the ones you mentioned from Cooper's better kits.

 

[PT Ray]

Won best in class with my Probe SE at their Midwest Mazdafest show last May. I've got a vid on youtube about it.
Aaaanyway,I found the yeast in the white/silver sachet is no longer available from many online suppliers. It looked like the ones you mentioned from Cooper's better kits.[/FONT]

I caught your video about a month or so ago. Had some sharp looking Probes along with some Rx7's and 8's. Didn't realize the following Probes had.

Yea, the Premium Selection yeast isn't sold individually. I can get several batches from a harvest and usually take it a couple generations. I know dry yeast is cheap but I always enjoy the results from the repitches more than I do form the initial dry pitch.

 

[unionrdr]

I got the impression from the "sold out" designations that they were available (from manufacturer?),but aren't now. The Ford probe has a huge following all over the world. I just happened to like the way it looks/handles.

 

[jmcdaniel0]

I take it all back. Cooper's are wonderful. You should make them. I think they should be the only beer kits available in the whole world.

I particularly love that a forum member here worked for coopers and has sent me multiple harassing emails daily after I expressed my opinion.

Obviously, if they feel so strongly about my opinion that they have to send me multiple harassing messages, even critiquing my recipes that I posted on this forum for other members, they are an A1, number 1, awesome company. Anybody who cares enough to bombard me with PMs must make a great canned prehopped LME kit.

Oddly enough, he tells me that the Cooper's ARE good if "tweaked" and not made according to the instructions on the can. Hmmmmm. Ok then. I'll buy that.

So, you guys. Buy Coopers prehopped LME "lager" kit. And then buy a can of Spaghettio's. And tweak them with good ingredients. Both will be equally good. But do NOT express a negative opinion, because you'll get PMs. The first ones start out friendly, offering a free kit. but when you turn it down, then the rest get progressively not nice.

Better? Now can the harassment stop?!?!

Cooper's should be ashamed.

That is def. not where I wanted this thread to go. That is way past ridiculous, and moving to absurd.

I proposed a more or less straight forward question, What Coopers kits are decent. With the assumption I had messed my first round. Not which process is better. Obviously these cans are sold to be cheap. With the least amount in the can to maximize profits. With a corporate strategy involved, the beer can only be so good. I only wanted suggestions that others had done to work on my process.

With that said, I have decided to move on to extracts, after doing some research, and all the due diligence i can, I think I can do that, and get far better results. The main point being, with these, the ingredients are better, and I feel that there is less of a Corporate marketing strategy involved. Also, I think there is more room for me to tweak it. Yes, I can tweak the cans, but why buy a can when I am just going to end up changing most of the ingredients anyway? I think Yooper's Analogy of the Chef-Boy-R-Dee can is pretty much spot on. Yes they are edible, but are they really good? Sure my three year old loves em, but I am a big boy now, and I like Big boy food.

To Yooper: I am sorry this world contains so many idiots. Not much i can do about it, but there you have it.

To the Idiots: Grow up and get off the corporate kool-aid.

To everyone else: I appreciate your response, and would love to keep the discussion going on extract brewing, suggestions for me as a newbie, and stuff that you all have tried, and how it worked out for you.

 

[Yooper]

That is def. not where I wanted this thread to go. That is way past ridiculous, and moving to absurd.

I proposed a more or less straight forward question, What Coopers kits are decent. With the assumption I had messed my first round. Not which process is better. Obviously these cans are sold to be cheap. With the least amount in the can to maximize profits. With a corporate strategy involved, the beer can only be so good. I only wanted suggestions that others had done to work on my process.

With that said, I have decided to move on to extracts, after doing some research, and all the due diligence i can, I think I can do that, and get far better results. The main point being, with these, the ingredients are better, and I feel that there is less of a Corporate marketing strategy involved. Also, I think there is more room for me to tweak it. Yes, I can tweak the cans, but why buy a can when I am just going to end up changing most of the ingredients anyway? I think Yooper's Analogy of the Chef-Boy-R-Dee can is pretty much spot on. Yes they are edible, but are they really good? Sure my three year old loves em, but I am a big boy now, and I like Big boy food.

To Yooper: I am sorry this world contains so many idiots. Not much i can do about it, but there you have it.

To the Idiots: Grow up and get off the corporate kool-aid.

To everyone else: I appreciate your response, and would love to keep the discussion going on extract brewing, suggestions for me as a newbie, and stuff that you all have tried, and how it worked out for you.

I'm very very sorry to derail your thread! I was just amazed and flabbergasted about the harassment and I thought people should know.

Anyway, you can make very good beer with extract! Some basic light extract (liquid or dry), a few fresh crushed grains for steeping, a good quality yeast (dry is fine), and proper fermentation temperature control can make a mightly fine beer.

Water is important, too, as that really is most of the beer. Tap water can be fine, as long as your water is chloramine free and chlorine free. (Chlorine can be boiled off, but chloramines can't). RO water from the Wal-mart dispenser works great if your tap water isn't so good, but distilled and spring water are fine too for extract brews. Keeping the temperature during fermentation at 70 degrees or under for most ales will also make a better beer.

Keep in mind we're talking about fermentation temperature, not room temperature! An active fermentation produces heat, and the temperature of the beer can be up to 10 degrees higher than ambient in my experience! A stick-on thermometer is important, like the ones on an aquarium.

 

[jmcdaniel0]

I'm very very sorry to derail your thread! I was just amazed and flabbergasted about the harassment and I thought people should know.

Anyway, you can make very good beer with extract! Some basic light extract (liquid or dry), a few fresh crushed grains for steeping, a good quality yeast (dry is fine), and proper fermentation temperature control can make a mightly fine beer.

Water is important, too, as that really is most of the beer. Tap water can be fine, as long as your water is chloramine free and chlorine free. (Chlorine can be boiled off, but chloramines can't). RO water from the Wal-mart dispenser works great if your tap water isn't so good, but distilled and spring water are fine too for extract brews. Keeping the temperature during fermentation at 70 degrees or under for most ales will also make a better beer.

Keep in mind we're talking about fermentation temperature, not room temperature! An active fermentation produces heat, and the temperature of the beer can be up to 10 degrees higher than ambient in my experience! A stick-on thermometer is important, like the ones on an aquarium.

Mmm, im getting thirsty already! This week end I am getting married, sooo my brewing time has run out until the 14th or so. But my first extract kit has arrived from NB, and im excited. The instructions say 7 weeks... Is that accurate? Should I leave it a bit longer?

 

[jonmohno]

Mmm, im getting thirsty already! This week end I am getting married, sooo my brewing time has run out until the 14th or so. But my first extract kit has arrived from NB, and im excited. The instructions say 7 weeks... Is that accurate? Should I leave it a bit longer?

Whats the OG? NB is usually pretty good about timeframe.They are usually right times,although i think they recommend secondary on alot of kits but secondary is mainly a preference and most of us agree not to secondary in most cases.
Ive made really good beer with Northern Brewer extract.Their emphasis on fresh extract and high turnover makes for a good beer.

 

[windbreaker123]

And then buy a can of Spaghettio's. And tweak them with good ingredients. But I like mine cold and out of the can. Do I have to tweak them ?

 

[jonmohno]

I bet even a good chef would crack open a can o speghettio's to compare apples to apples.

 

[camus]

LMAO at this thread...


When I was in the marine corp I would hike spaghettio's out to the field and heated, they were the bomb with a bit of garlic salt.

Beer in can, LMFAO.