Consistenty Hi OGs

[peters6278]

Hello all, I'm a newbie to the board but have been following posts here for some time and have learned quite bit here. I'm currently only doing extract recipes (with specialty grains) and have less than a dozen batches under my belt, so bear with me.

My question for the board: I get consistenty high OG readings when compared against the online recipe calculator I use (Brewer's Friend), usually about 8-10 points high. My FGs tend to end up where I want them (although they are often about 5 points higher than I would like). A few notes about my brewing techniques. I always steep about a pound of specialty grains in 6 gallons of water at 155 degrees for 30 minutes, then bring it up to a boil before adding my malt extracts (always DME). I take my OG reading after cooling the wort down with an immersion chiller to 80 degrees.

Here is my latest example:
Blonde Ale
Starting water volume: 6 gallons
1 lb Carapils (steeped at 155 degrees for 30 minutes)
6 lb Extra Light DME (added at the beginning of a 60 minute boil)

After hop additions, whirlfloc at 15 minutes, and chilling to 80 degrees, wort volume to primary fermenter was 4.7 gallons. Topped off with sanitized and cooled water to make 5 gallons. OG reading was then taken and came in at1.062 (where I was expecting 1.053 for this recipe).

What's up? My recipe calculator, hydrometer (although I just bought a new one and have the same issue), or something else? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

[BlackGoat]

interesting, what I'm wondering is whether you are entering your recipes into your calculator as an extract brew with steeping grains, or are you entering them in as a partial mash? The reason that I say interesting and raise this issue is that you are steeping grains at a temperature and length of time where you could be getting some conversion (i.e. you have a partial mash going on). Without the proper mix of base malt, and with the volume of water that you steeping them in you are only going to get a very small amount of fermentable sugar from this, but it could account for some additional sugar in your wort beyond what a calculator might have determined for a beer w/steeping grains.

 

[prophet]

Have you checked the calibation of your hydrometer, or accounted for the temperature of the wort/beer?

 

[duboman]

If you are topping off then you are most likely not getting a good mix of wort to water and thus high readings as you are measuring heavier wort, OR, your volumes are not correct, OR your hydrometer is not calibrated.

Steeping grains while adding color and flavor would not add fermentable since they are not mashed and extract provides a definitive extract amount so the only variables associated with off readings are those mentioned above.

 

[peters6278]

I definitely try and mix in my topoff water well before taking my reading. I always take my sample via the spigot at the bottom of my plastic bucket primary (after transferring from my boil pot through a strainer to the primary). Could it be possilbe that I'm getting a disproportionate amount of cold break / hops in my sample...enough to throw of the reading by that much? I will calibrate my hydrometer to see if that's the issue. I assume the proper way to do that is with pure water at my post boil temp, and verify I get 1.000?

 

[YeastHerder]

Stuff that isn't dissolved in solution won't effect your hydrometer readings -- doesn't matter if its hops debris, cold break, or a penny, only stuff that is dissolved into the water will change its density.

My guess is that your steeping method for the carapils is extracting lots of non-fermentables but they still contribute to gravity and that is adding some points that aren't being accounted properly by your beer program. (This is re: the few extra FG points)

Carapils is basically a really light crystal malt, so this thread about the fermentability of crystal malts is relevant to your question too.

Edit: Getting at your actual question about OG, different DME sources can contribute more or less fermentables than other sources of DME. I have found this to be the case and the default values in the programs are averages, and pretty close, but not necessarily perfect.

 

[duboman]

IMO, if you are drawing your sample from the spigot then you are eating a same of the more dense wort resulting in higher readings, regardless of how well you think you are mixing.

Try using a thief next time and draw a sample from above, or better yet, take one from the bottom and one from the top as an experiment and you'll see the difference

 

[billl]

You are entering something wrong in your program.

DME = 45 points/lb.
Carapils = 36 points x efficiency. (assuming 70%, that would be 25 points)

45x6+25 = 295 for 5 gallons, that is 59 or 1.059.

Somewhere in your software, the batch size is probably set to 5.5 gallons. 295/5.5 = 53 points or 1.053.

As for the beer finishing too high, that is the carapils. Most DME already has carapils in it, so you are basically doubling up.

 

[peters6278]

Bill, if your numbers are correct, then there may be an error in the equations behind the reicpe calculator at www.brewersfriend.com (or I'm doing something wrong). Anyone else use this tool? If I specify the brew method as 'Extract' with a 5.0 gallon boil volume and only enter in 6 lb of Extra Light DME, the tool spits out an OG of 1.050, not the 1.054 I would expect from your numbers (6 lb x 45 points per lb / 5.0 gallons = 54). Granted, we're only talking 4 points here, so the variability in DME fermentables that YeastHearder brings up could be at play here (perhaps the tool assumes 41.7 points per lb of DME). Add in the 5 points from the 1 lb of steeped Carapils and my OG discrepancy is only 3 points (1.062 measured vs 1.059 expected), intersting, but not a showstopper.

As a side note, can anyone else confirm Bill comment that DME already has Carapils in it? If so, if my use of this specialty grain totally uneccesary? Maybe cutting back to 1/2 or 1/4 lb would be sufficient to ensure head retention while minimizing the impact on my FG, due to extra unfermentables.

In any case, thanks all for your feedback.

 

[BlackGoat]

I use Brewersfriend for most of my batches. It has generally been quite accurate, but with my level of brewing (as I dial in my BIAB technique), when I'm within 3-5 points of my OG I consider it to be a success. It usually takes quite a few brews before you start to really hit your OG and FGs consistently, at least that is how it was for me when I first moved up to partial mash. When you set up your recipe, are you using the "fermentor" or the "kettle" option next to the batch size?

As far as DME goes, it depends entirely on the producer. Here is some info from Briess, one of the bigger producers in North America which gives a breakdown of their extracts (I think Pilsner Light is their "extra light DME" but I could be wrong): http://www.brewingwithbriess.com/Products/Extracts.htm As shown, Briess indeed does use Carapils in its products.