Confused - LME vs Kits vs ??

[Monkey55]

Hey,

I've had my Mr. Beer for a year or two and am finally getting ready to brew my first batch. I've been reading up. But I'm a bit confused.

Let me see if I can type this out to make sense.

LME is Liquid Malt Extract. LME are typically used in kits... Right?

There are Hopped and Un-Hopped extracts. When someone refers to malt extracts, is it always liquid??

Mr. Beer uses Hopped Malt Extract (It says it right there on the can. ) Are there other manufactures that make Liquid Hopped Extracts? If so, can I use their extracts just as I would Mr. Beer's extract? (Maybe just different boiling directions?)?

I wouldn't mind using Mr. Beer's refills, but they cost $15, on average, on Amazon, with free shipping. That will only yield 3.7% abv. If I want to boost the abv with a malt extract from my local brew supply store, then that will be another $5. So, that's $20 for 26 12oz beers.

I totally understand that I can brew my own wort with my own hops, but I'm not ready for that yet. I need it to be simple when I brew beer.. at least until the end of the year (I'm a full-time stay at home dad, I'm finishing up my BA full-time, and I work on the weekends when I can.) My brain just can't handle any more information.


I've been reading as much as I can and there's a lot of information..

Any info would be helpful...

THANKS,
E

 

[ChshreCat]

Extract can be either LME or DME (Dry malt extract).

Kits can be all extract (either LME or DME), extract with steeping grains, partial mash (some extract and some grains that are mashed) or kits can even be an all-grain kit.

You can do all pre-hopped extract kits with a full sized brewing setup just like you would with a Mr Beer. There are also folks that use their Mr Beer fermenters to brew using their own recipes from scratch.

You really have lots and lots of options. I hope that helps clear some things up.

 

[Shinglejohn]

Go pick up "The New Complete Joy of Homebrewing" by charlie Papazian. That will explain all of the basics for homebrewing to you. Some of the more technical stuff is a little out of date but the book is a godsend to new brewers.

On a side not, your totally ready for self hopping. Its no less simple and yields a better product.

 

[likwidbliss]

Make the move to extract kits. You won't regret it. I read Papazian's, and Palmer's books. I did not get everything packed into my head over night. I bought a kit from Austin Homebrew Supply and it gave me a pretty comprehensive set of instructions. I did look into Mr. Beer at one time and found that it was too expensive for 26 - 12 oz beers. There are some easy kits out there for about $30.00 and they will make decent beer. I recently moved to all grain and this is even cheaper.

Mr. Beer does make good beer and if that is what you like, continue. I thought I would share my experience if you need encouragement.

Keep brewing!

 

[Monkey55]

Thanks for the replies. I was able to read them after you guys posted them, I started having computer rpoblems before I could reply. I will definitely check out those books.

It's starting to make sense now. After searching around, I realized that there a lot beer kits out there. Like likwidbliss said.. Mr. Beer is kind of expensive compared to other kits that will net 5 or 6 gallons of beer for $30.
The kit that sticks out in mind is Cooper. It seems to be very similar to Mr. Beer's process. So, here's my next big question, "Can I buy something like Coopers and divide up the ingredients into 3s so I can brew the rest at different times?

Thanks
E

 

[ChshreCat]

Take a look at some of the kits at sites like Austin Homebrew and Homebrew Heaven and Midwest Supplies. You'll like what you can make with those MUCH better than anything from Coopers or Mr Beer.

But I'd recommend just finding a recipe and buying the ingredients. Pick out a recipe, scale it down to fit what you can do (except the yeast) and just order the ingredients you need (or pick them up at a local home brew shop). It would be easier than trying to split a kit 3 ways.

 

[nickmv]

Technically, it would seem that you can indeed split it up, by simply making sure that you adhere to correct proportions (ie. ROUGH EXAMPLE: 5gal water w/1oz hops and 5lbs extract would equal 2.5gals, .5oz hops, 2.5lbs extract), however, depending on whether you're boiling or not, your evaporation rate may be the same, which could cause some issues.

Honestly, though, extract brewing couldn't be easier. If you've got the equipment, and I mostly mean the right size pot to boil in, then you're pretty much set. Even things such as wort coolers aren't crucial to first time brewing. I went through 3 extract kits and after the 2nd one, I wished I had just moved on to partial mash already for the 3rd. It's a learning process that couldn't be more fun and hands-on.

Regardless of what you choose...good luck. I'm sure you'll make the jump sooner or later. Brewing becomes an addiction

 

[ChshreCat]

The problem with splitting up a kit is if they send you canned LME, like a cooper's kit will be. Hard to split up a can of LME 3 ways without it going funky by the time you get your Mr Beer fermenter freed up and you can brew again.

 

[nickmv]

+1 on the previous post. I meant to mention that in mine. You'd need to vacuum seal your stuff once opened. A can of malt extract exposed to open air more than once is like a giant sizzling steak sitting in front of you, except we're talking bacteria and wild yeast here...

 

[nanofreak]

Pick up brewing classic styles for some recipes, or find some in the forums. You can then order from somewhere like brewmasters warehouse where you can order for a 2.5 gallon sized batch. They sell even LME by the ounce. I make half sized batches all the time shopping with them. That way I don't have to worry about breaking a kit in half, or how to saved left over canned crap, or throwing anything away.

 

[Indyking]

Monkey55 (OP), I feel you. I started with the kits about 6 months ago and didn't want or had much time to spend learning how to brew something more complicated than just the kits.

I started with coopers kit and just follow the instructions. Pretty darn easy! First batches were good, but I was worried about cost of those kits in the beginning. I got a sale code with discounts and free shipping and decided to go ahead and buy several kits at once. May have been my biggest mistake, although I believe I can improve my 2 coopers kits left on storage. Last 2 kits were not that great, drinkable, but not quite as good as the first ones. Did my research here and somewhere else and realized the higher temperatures in my house during the summer spoiled my most recent kits.

So, I decided to do some more research (now spending a lot of time for someone who just intended to brew out of kits following instructions) and decided to try extract brewing. I must warn you, if you follow this same curiosity path, it becomes addictive. My first extract batch went on fermentation yesterday at 11PM and this morning when I wake up the airlock liquid was already bubbling. With coopers, it never really did that. I would see bubbles in the liquid after 24 hours but actual bubbling vigorously after 7 hours was a big change and surprise! It wasn't really much harder to do the extract brewing compared to coopers kit, the only difference was that I spent more time preparing it and need a big brew pot to boil.

I'm anxious to see how this extract beer will come out when done in about a month from now... something tells me that it will make me wanna trash my stored kit beers. The smell of boiling hops worth the extra effort, I guarantee you.

Truth is, for me and for a lot of people I think, this brewing hobby starts with some all right beer from kits and making sure making beer is cheaper than buying commercial ones but it progresses to who cares about hopped kits and cost if all I want is to brew a great tasting, kick-ass beer! :rockin:

 

[LCTitan]

I am getting ramped up to do brew five gallon extract kits soon as I make the switch over from Mr. Beer. Personally I believe you would be much better off getting a couple 6.5 or the larger buckets rather that going through the hassle of splitting up the batch. After searching, reading and viewing several videos on YouTube I have learned much. But there is still so much more to be learned. Very impressed with several of the online suplliers and the kits they provide. The one that really impressed me the most was this one with the kits they provide:

http://www.austinhomebrew.com/

I will still support the two local homebrew stores as much as possible though as I move along. Really enjoy this hobby so far and I am hooked!

 

[Monkey55]

.....

Regardless of what you choose...good luck. I'm sure you'll make the jump sooner or later. Brewing becomes an addiction

I think..... technically drinking is the addiction and brewing is the the enabler..

Pick up brewing classic styles for some recipes, or find some in the forums. You can then order from somewhere like brewmasters warehouse where you can order for a 2.5 gallon sized batch. They sell even LME by the ounce. I make half sized batches all the time shopping with them. That way I don't have to worry about breaking a kit in half, or how to saved left over canned crap, or throwing anything away.

Thanks for the tip. I've looked around, but I still need to figure this out.

Monkey55 (OP), I feel you. I started with the kits about 6 months ago and didn't want or had much time to spend learning how to brew something more complicated than just the kits.

...

..... I must warn you, if you follow this same curiosity path, it becomes addictive. ....

.....

Truth is, for me and for a lot of people I think, this brewing hobby starts with some all right beer from kits and making sure making beer is cheaper than buying commercial ones but it progresses to who cares about hopped kits and cost if all I want is to brew a great tasting, kick-ass beer! :rockin:

Yeah. I'm really stretched for time. (I'm not intending the next couple of sentences to be "woe is me.") I really can't cram any more information into to my head or find the time to brew at the next level. I take care of my 3 old month son and two year old son FULL-TIME. I'm going to college full-time. And, I try to find work on the weekends. So, my brain is about to explode from school and kids take almost every minute of my time right now. Oh, and right now, it has to be cheaper than beer off the shelf because my wife is a teacher and we haven't had a paycheck in two months. :rockin:

So, I kind of need a SIMPLE brew process and hopefully a cheaper one too.

I am getting ramped up to do brew five gallon extract kits soon as I make the switch over from Mr. Beer. Personally I believe you would be much better off getting a couple 6.5 or the larger buckets rather that going through the hassle of splitting up the batch. ...
.....

I thought about moving to a 5 gallon kit, but right now, small batches are more practical.

I'm hoping that in 6 months to a year, I'll be have more time to dedicate to brewing.

----

After reading some of the responses, I decided on not trying to divide up the ingredients from other kits.

Oh yeah, I'm on the 10th day of my first batch. It's a Irish Stout. Instead of using Mr. Beer's booster, I used a can of Pale Malt Extract. I think it's doing ok. I only checked it twice since I brewed. It's hard to see what's going on through Mr. Beer's dark fermenter. I think I'll bottle on the 12th or 14th day.

 

[ChshreCat]

I'm hoping that in 6 months to a year, I'll be have more time to dedicate to brewing.

Brewing a 5 gallon batch won't really take any longer than doing a smaller one. Same amount of time invested and you get more beer in the end. I don't see a downside.

 

[Brasco20]

Get a 7 gallon plastic bucket made for brewing, super cheap. Get an extract brew from someone like NorthwestBrewers.com, around 30 bucks. I use a 3 gallon pot and boil 2.5 gallons, stainless pots are pricey but you can get a cheap pot at walmart. Extract kits are super easy and make great beer. If they have specialty grains, the kit comes with the grain bag, and its basically like a tea bag, just let it sit in the heating water for 20 min before the boil and adding the extract. Kits come with great instructions which are very easy to follow. I think that if you do an extract kit you will find it to be just as easy as a mr. beer kit, and probably cheaper.

Boil water, put in extract, and throw in some hops, VERY EASY! remember when adding ingredients, turn off the gas or remove pot from the heat. I added some hops to one off my last brews without turning of the gas and had boiling wort everywhere.

Get a small bottle of StarSan, one ounce of this stuff makes 5 gallons of no rinse sanitizer. This stuff is great.

I know if you do a couple of extract kits, simply by following the instructions, you will have great beer and realize how easy it is. Next you will be asking about yeast starters and dry hopping.

I use bottled water to brew, but my best brew to date was done with tap water, just make sure everything that touches the wort after the boil is sanitized.

You can do this no problem, RDWHAHB! Any questions just post um up.

Good Luck

 

[Monkey55]

.... Extract kits are super easy and make great beer. If they have specialty grains, the kit comes with the grain bag, and its basically like a tea bag, just let it sit in the heating water for 20 min before the boil and adding the extract. Kits come with great instructions which are very easy to follow. I think that if you do an extract kit you will find it to be just as easy as a mr. beer kit, and probably cheaper.

Boil water, put in extract, and throw in some hops, VERY EASY! remember when adding ingredients, turn off the gas or remove pot from the heat. I added some hops to one off my last brews without turning of the gas and had boiling wort everywhere.
...


You can do this no problem, RDWHAHB! Any questions just post um up.

Good Luck

So, it sounds EASY... From what I can tell, the extra step in brewing malt extracts is basically seeping the hops. Right?

I'm still going to stick with Mr. Beer's fermenter because I like changing up the beer I drink. I very rarely buy the same beer two times in a row. I couldn't image having 5 gallons of the same brew.

I'm a visual person. Is there a video on extract brewing. I know, I know. I just have a hard time reading instructions. I've always learned easier with watching someone do it. first.

Oh yeah. What does "RDWHAHB" mean???????

Thanks
E

 

[tvtoms]

You just steep grains like a big tea bag, then remove the grains and get the water boiling. Then throw in some hops and stir in some extract. Then throw in some more hops and maybe stir in some more extract and thats basically it. Throw in the yeast and wait a few weeks for beer.

 

[Germelli1]

Hey monkey, since I have only brewed a handful of extract brews myself I feel I can give you some relevent advice.

You should buy Dry malt extract instead of LME. DME allows you to only use a portion of it, and you can save the rest for another brew date. The best way to do this is plan out the next 3-5 brews you want so you know the quantities of each ingredient needed, and just use them as you go. This will allow you to scale 5 gallon batches down to 2 or three and you can choose slightly more complicated recipes as you see fit so you can learn more.

I know you are busy and I completely understand, so if you ever need any help figuring out what style beer you want to brew and what ingredients you will need, just send me a private message. I have plenty of spare time since I am taking a semester off of school. You can send me a beer style you want to try and I can give you a handful of recipes to choose from

 

[Germelli1]

And this guy has videos starting with coopers kits, moved on to self-hopping extract brewing and now he is experimenting with minimashing. You can follow his progression as you progress!

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/user/CraigTube#p/u/124/sAJKWCdaPq4[/ame]

 

[akthor]

You need more friends Then 5 gallons ain't enuff

I couldn't image having 5 gallons of the same brew.

E

 

[mr_bell]

And this guy has videos starting with coopers kits, moved on to self-hopping extract brewing and now he is experimenting with minimashing. You can follow his progression as you progress!

http://www.youtube.com/user/CraigTube#p/u/124/sAJKWCdaPq4

This guy used to be somewhat laughable; good to see that he's progressing!

 

[Germelli1]

This guy used to be somewhat laughable; good to see that he's progressing!

He is only laughable to advanced brewers whose goals are completely different.

I hated how people still made fun of him when he opened his very first video with something like, "I know there are more advanced ways to brew, but my goals are to make drinkable beer for cheap".

 

[mr_bell]

He is only laughable to advanced brewers whose goals are completely different.

I hated how people still made fun of him when he opened his very first video with something like, "I know there are more advanced ways to brew, but my goals are to make drinkable beer for cheap".

I looked back at my original post on this guy (there is a rather long thread on him). I never knocked what he did, and if one is happy with results then cool. More or less I found his on-camera personality to be a bit odd and humerous at the same time. I actually complimented him on his on camera presence. I do a fair amount of public speaking but despise being video taped, so I commend Craig for that---he's pretty comfortable in front of the camera, and he doesn't flinch when something goes wrong or his neighbor walks into a shot (watch some of his other videos). I think it's cool that he actually is taking the time to improve, advance and refine his process.

 

[tomheff]

So, it sounds EASY... From what I can tell, the extra step in brewing malt extracts is basically seeping the hops. Right?

I'm still going to stick with Mr. Beer's fermenter because I like changing up the beer I drink. I very rarely buy the same beer two times in a row. I couldn't image having 5 gallons of the same brew.

I'm a visual person. Is there a video on extract brewing. I know, I know. I just have a hard time reading instructions. I've always learned easier with watching someone do it. first.

Oh yeah. What does "RDWHAHB" mean???????

Thanks
E

Mr Beer is extract so that is extract brewing. You can simply add hop aroma/flavor to your Mr Beer kits if you want to. All beer kits - Mr Beer, Muntons, Coopers, etc. are malt extract. They already have the bittering hops in them so you don't need to boil for 60 minutes to get the bitterness.

 

[Brasco20]

"RDWHAHB"-Relax Dont Worry Have A Home Brew

 

[akthor]

I will NEVER EVER do anything but the kits. No full grain, partial mash, dry hopping, mash tuns ect. To be honest I am not even sure what a lot of that means. Brewing kits in my kitchen and fermenting and kegging in my basement while adhering to good cleaning and sanitation is enough of a challenge for me. And I am completely satisfied with the results. My beer kits beer is as good if not better than any beer I could buy at the store which is good enough for me.

If someday I had like dedicated space to create into a brewing room then maybe I could expand my brewing horizons but I don't ever see that happening

I looked back at my original post on this guy (there is a rather long thread on him). I never knocked what he did, and if one is happy with results then cool. More or less I found his on-camera personality to be a bit odd and humerous at the same time. I actually complimented him on his on camera presence. I do a fair amount of public speaking but despise being video taped, so I commend Craig for that---he's pretty comfortable in front of the camera, and he doesn't flinch when something goes wrong or his neighbor walks into a shot (watch some of his other videos). I think it's cool that he actually is taking the time to improve, advance and refine his process.

 

[Yooper]

I will NEVER EVER do anything but the kits. No full grain, partial mash, dry hopping, mash tuns ect. To be honest I am not even sure what a lot of that means. Brewing kits in my kitchen and fermenting and kegging in my basement while adhering to good cleaning and sanitation is enough of a challenge for me. And I am completely satisfied with the results. My beer kits beer is as good if not better than any beer I could buy at the store which is good enough for me.

If someday I had like dedicated space to create into a brewing room then maybe I could expand my brewing horizons but I don't ever see that happening

Off topic for the OP, but never say never ever! I thought the same thing myself when I first started brewing. But, then I did make a system where I still brewed in my kitchen, doing all grain 5 gallon batches. I only recently moved out of the kitchen, and still brew a batch or two a year right on my kitchen stove.

That's not to say that you should change- you should always do what you're happy doing, no matter what anybody says. But keep in mind that PM and AG brewing are much cheaper and the quality of the beer I make is similar to most of the commercial craft beers that I love. So, cheaper beer of a better quality is what made me continue to hone my brewing skills. I make 5 gallons of beer for $12-18, depending on the recipe. Everyone has different goals, and mine involved $$$$!

 

[Mermaid]

Here's how I got bit by the homebrewing "bug".

I bought a discount coupon for a homebrewing class + starter kit from a local homebrewing supply store. It was super cheap, and I thought "What the heck. I love beer. I love cooking. I can do this!"

I picked up my starter kit (included 5 gallon bucket w/bottling spigot, stick on thermometer, airlock, and some other goodies, and a Munton's "Export Ale" kit-in-a-can) and attended the class.

After the class, I realized that the "kit-in-a-can" is too easy. I can do something a little bit more difficult, and maybe create something I'll like even more than the "Export Ale".

I got to talking to some folks in the store, after spending more than an hour in that store talking to different folks, I picked up a 6 gallon "better bottle", some additional supplies, a no frills 5 gallon brew kettle, and headed home with the idea that I was going to brew "something else" for my first batch.

I read a whole bunch of really great stuff on this forum. Spend a few hours here and you'll find inspiration! I ended up buying a "extract with steeped grains" kit from Northern Brewer (just one of the great vendors referenced on this site), and a smack pack of limited edition yeast (the Unibroue strain from Wyeast)

I brewed up my Belgian blond ale, and it was "okay" - not great - but drinkable. Drinkable enough that I finished my last bottle a couple weeks ago.

I learned a LOT. So much so that I ran out and picked up "Brew Like a Monk", and "Clone Brews" and was inspired further. (I got sidelined by an ankle fracture at the beginning of June, so I had no choice but to read and read and read more on homebrewing techniques, and creative ideas for different things I could brew)

Long story short... plenty of folks on this site make good to great beer using just extracts - which is just processed malt in either dry or liquid form (the liquid form is more or less the dry malt extract or DME with the right amount of water to make it a syrup. The extracts vary in color and flavor depending on the malt used to make them. Everything from a Pilsen which makes up the light DME and light LME to amber, dark, wheat, etc. Flavoring hops can be found in pellet form these days (looks like rabbit or guinnea pig chow but smells WAY better) and offers you the chance to experiment with different types of bittering/flavor and aroma in your brews.

Long story short... you might choose to set aside your Mr. Beer kit for one of those lazy days you feel like brewing "something" but you're not sure what. Instead, pick up an extract kit with steeped grains, a few more supplies, some better yeast (anything is better than the who-knows-how-old stuff stuck to the inside lid on the can) and try your hand at it brewing something that you can really be proud of.

I brewed up my 3rd beer this weekend, and bottled my second (a Belgian dubbel that even my fussy boyfriend says "is going to be a really great beer" when it's carbed up). I've only been at this since the beginning of May.

 

[Tombstone0]

Since one of your issues is that you're short on time, keep in mind that moving away from kits with hopped malt extract is going to add at least an hour to your brewing time.
With Mr. Beer all you have to do is bring your water to a boil, remove from heat, stir in the extract, pour it into the keg, top it up, add your yeast and stir. With unhopped extract you'll have to do all of that and boil for an hour. You can definitely make better and possibly cheaper beer this way, and if you usually can get an evening free where an extra hour won't be a problem you should go for it.

 

[Germelli1]

I looked back at my original post on this guy (there is a rather long thread on him). I never knocked what he did, and if one is happy with results then cool. More or less I found his on-camera personality to be a bit odd and humerous at the same time. I actually complimented him on his on camera presence. I do a fair amount of public speaking but despise being video taped, so I commend Craig for that---he's pretty comfortable in front of the camera, and he doesn't flinch when something goes wrong or his neighbor walks into a shot (watch some of his other videos). I think it's cool that he actually is taking the time to improve, advance and refine his process.

I never thought you were knocking him, sorry I came off that way!

 

[Monkey55]

Thanks for all the opinions and input. I have definitely read and thought about all of them. As much as it is enticing, I'm not going to jump to 5 gallon brews. It's hard to justify spending $70 to $150 on a kit when we have diapers and formula to buy.

You need more friends Then 5 gallons ain't enuff

LOL.... There's a reason I'm not telling too many people about my new hobbie..

Since one of your issues is that you're short on time, keep in mind that moving away from kits with hopped malt extract is going to add at least an hour to your brewing time.
With Mr. Beer all you have to do is bring your water to a boil, remove from heat, stir in the extract, pour it into the keg, top it up, add your yeast and stir. With unhopped extract you'll have to do all of that and boil for an hour. You can definitely make better and possibly cheaper beer this way, and if you usually can get an evening free where an extra hour won't be a problem you should go for it.

I didn't think about that. Last weekend would have been perfect. The wife and I stayed awake for a few hours after we got the kids to sleep. I'll keep that in mind because those weekends are few and far in between.

Hey monkey, since I have only brewed a handful of extract brews myself I feel I can give you some relevent advice.

You should buy Dry malt extract instead of LME. DME allows you to only use a portion of it, and you can save the rest for another brew date. The best way to do this is plan out the next 3-5 brews you want so you know the quantities of each ingredient needed, and just use them as you go. This will allow you to scale 5 gallon batches down to 2 or three and you can choose slightly more complicated recipes as you see fit so you can learn more.

I know you are busy and I completely understand, so if you ever need any help figuring out what style beer you want to brew and what ingredients you will need, just send me a private message. I have plenty of spare time since I am taking a semester off of school. You can send me a beer style you want to try and I can give you a handful of recipes to choose from

Thanks for the offer and understanding. I checked out that video and it helped my get familiar with the process. I also checked out some other YouTube videos that were related. I think I'll send you a pm.

"RDWHAHB"-Relax Dont Worry Have A Home Brew

That's the LONGESSSSSSSTTTTT acronym I have ever seen. :cross:


THANKS
E

 

[ChshreCat]

Pfft, you could upgrade to 5 gallon batches for 25 bucks.

But I completely understand the priorities. Diapers and formula? Sounds like you need to drop some hints about brewing gear making EXCELLENT father's day gifts!

 

[grasshopper1917]

I've been brewing for a few years - if you do decide to move up to 5 gallons the canned kits are a great way to start. I have been doing it since I started - I dont have much room (live in a smalll bachelor apartment) and dont have much time so it works for me. If you are strapped for cash sometimes you can pick up really cheap supplies on kijiji (craigslist i guess in the USA). I see alot of people selling stuff almost knew because they tried it once or twice and decided they didn't like the hobby.

I know some people like to denounce the canned kits but you can make some really good beer from the kits - and you can make it as simple as you like - or you can add in your own hops and specialty grains - its all up to you.

Anyway whatever you decide to do - happy brewing - cheers