Computer Geeks Please ITT Tech VS DeVry

[snccoulter]

If you had the chance to go to either school and go throught the Info Security without it costing you anything which one woud you take, and why?

Thank you

 

[MalFet]

Are these two the only option? It seems like each of them shows up in a new scandal every six months or so.

 

[brewmonk]

I'd work for an ISP, and get paid to learn.

 

[foyt20]

Try to get tuition reimbursement for a real college.

I looked at ITT, U of Phoneix, and devry, and I currently go to local community college, and then hope to transfer to Rutgers. You cant transfer credits from any of those schools.

 

[snccoulter]

I'd work for an ISP, and get paid to learn.

The VA will be paying me to go to school through the Voc Rehab Program

Try to get tuition reimbursement for a real college.

I looked at ITT, U of Phoneix, and devry, and I currently go to local community college, and then hope to transfer to Rutgers. You cant transfer credits from any of those schools.

The VA wants to send me to a Trade School so since they are paying for it I am not going to ***** to much.

Are these two the only option? It seems like each of them shows up in a new scandal every six months or so.

Yes these are the only two that commuting to would work Otherwise I am driving 3 or 4 hours one way.

 

[theonetrueruss]

definitely go to a real school, though ITT or Devry will be better than nothing.. they aren't very respected institutions... pick a local state college and go there.. I would rather hire someone with a degree from a local state college than either of those... though if you are good at what you do after a few years experience it won't matter that much either way

 

[MalFet]

In that case, I'd consider brewmonk's suggestion. I haven't attended either of these schools, but I can speak as somebody who hires IT grads on a fairly regular basis. ITT Tech and DeVry degrees don't count for much (and certainly count for less than experience) to most of the HR managers I know. YMMV of course.

 

[HIM_Tattoos]

I personally attended ITT for over a year, and would never suggest it to anyone. Their materials are terrible, their equipment is hands down some of the worst I've seen of any school, this includes my middle school. I'm 30K in the hole with nothing to show for it. I quit and am making more money by climbing my way through the corp ladder then I would have actually completing the courses there.

Devry isn't far behind, I'd say their ITT's rejects.

Honestly, your better off with your 3-4 hour drive, at least at the end of the day you'll get to say I graduated from a REAL college.

Oh and another note, the credits you'll earn at ITT or Devry, aren't transferable to ANY other college, that speaks for it's courses in itself.

 

[dallasdb]

Oh and another note, the credits you'll earn at ITT or Devry, aren't transferable to ANY other college, that speaks for it's courses in itself.

If you graduate you don't need to worry about transfer credits. To say they aren't transferable is BS. Transfer credits are up to the inbound institution and I know from experience transferring from one regionally accredited school to another doesn't guarantee transfer credits.

Transferring credits is never a guarantee. I agree ITT and Devry aren't very good but that isn't the same for other schools like Westwood College.

Westwood is one of only twelve schools to have instructors and Deans on the Microsoft Curriculum Committee. They teach using Microsoft Official Academic Curriculum. Your projects and classes directly correlate to certifications you can test for (Microsoft certs, Linux, A+, Security +, etc). They teach using virtualization instead of simulation. You practice on Microsoft's cloud computing network using real servers. You can actually crash your server if you screw up your project!

For the systems security program we use a software program called Helix which is pretty sweet.

For online classes this is probably the best school for IT. Have you checked out Westwood or going online? You should get in touch with my admissions rep. Let me know if you want his number.

 

[jaycount]

The IT market is TOUGH. You almost have to have a graduate degree anymore. It's just saturated.

 

[dallasdb]

The IT market is TOUGH. You almost have to have a graduate degree anymore. It's just saturated.

I disagree, look at how many jobs are out there for IT. Do a simple search on indeed.com and you'll see there are jobs out there. The problem with unemployed IT guys are they are either outdated, live in a limited area, job experience with no education, or they think they are worth more than they are and won't take a job paying less than XXX,XXX.

If you can't get a job, spend $250 to get a new cert and revamp your resume.

 

[o4_srt]

Op, kind of confused, you said you are using the voc rehab program? Afaik, that is for on the job education. Youd be better off using the standard gi bill for your education, or even the post-9/11 if you are eligible.

The post 9/11 not only pays for tuition, but also for books, and you get e-5 bah each month you are enrolled, as long as you are over part time (part time is usually 6 credits per semester).

If you're not paying for it, go to a real school. There are many schools out there that love to prey on vets, u of Phoenix, the two you mentioned, etc.

You also have a better chance of your credits transferring from a community college to a university than from itt or devry.

The va can't tell you what to do. You are a vet, you earned the benefits, you are free to use them however you want. There is no reason you have to go to a trade school.

Pm me if you'd like to discuss further, I'm finishing up my third semester using va benefits.

 

[dallasdb]

Op, kind of confused, you said you are using the voc rehab program? Afaik, that is for on the job education. Youd be better off using the standard gi bill for your education, or even the post-9/11 if you are eligible.

The post 9/11 not only pays for tuition, but also for books.

Voc rehab also pays for College... ALL of your college costs if you're approved. Post 911 is great, but it depends on what state your in. It only pays for the HIGHEST in state tuition. In some states that isn't much.
Also, Post 911 only gives you a $1,000 stipend for books a year which usually doesn't cover a full load for a year.

 

[snccoulter]

Op, kind of confused, you said you are using the voc rehab program? Afaik, that is for on the job education. Youd be better off using the standard gi bill for your education, or even the post-9/11 if you are eligible.

The post 9/11 not only pays for tuition, but also for books, and you get e-5 bah each month you are enrolled, as long as you are over part time (part time is usually 6 credits per semester).

If you're not paying for it, go to a real school. There are many schools out there that love to prey on vets, u of Phoenix, the two you mentioned, etc.

You also have a better chance of your credits transferring from a community college to a university than from itt or devry.

The va can't tell you what to do. You are a vet, you earned the benefits, you are free to use them however you want. There is no reason you have to go to a trade school.

Pm me if you'd like to discuss further, I'm finishing up my third semester using va benefits.

Voc Rehab pays for a lot more than just OJT. At my current rating they will be assisting with child care, transportation costs to school and back and supplies needed.

 

[dallasdb]

Voc rehab pays for a lot and goes above and beyond even the GI bill depending on what you qualify for.

The problem is getting qualified. I've heard it taking as long as 2 years to get approved.

 

[mrmitch]

I have an engineering degree from DeVry which I don't recommend, nonetheless check and make sure ITT Tech is accredited in that field. It's my understanding that there are a handful of colleges giving out degrees without any credibility. But if a state college is an option, definitely the way I would go. Good luck with your new endeavor.

 

[Homercidal]

FWIW I have a friend who went to ITT and he and his friend said the ONLY thing they got out of that school worth having was a new lifelong friend. Neither are in a field anywhere close to what they win in for. It's big joke for anyone having gone from what I can gather.

 

[MalFet]

Sounds like online might be your best bet. Plenty of online programs are mere diploma mills, but there are some very good ones too (as dallasdb suggests).

I was talking to my brother last night, and he has some choice stories about ITT Tech's program. He is a sergeant in signals and had a few ITT Tech grads working under him during deployment. One of them somehow got straight A's the whole way through, despite being completely illiterate. I don't mean "doesn't pick up the irony in New Yorker articles" illiterate, but "can't order off the menu at denny's" illiterate.

I don't mean to imply that everyone at these schools is stupid, but the fact that you can get a degree from them without being able to operate a computer says a lot about their curriculum. Add to that the fact that their degree is largely worthless in industry, and it doesn't sound like there's much of a point.

 

[socalboomer]

I run a large IT department with about 60 employees (it does vary, but that's about the average) and I do the majority of the hiring (there is some specialized hiring that I oversee but don't dip my fingers into).

I can tell you that the DeVry and ITT graduates that have applied and interviewed were sub-grade and I think we've only hired ONE in my 14 years here.

I would check with an accredited online university well before you try DeVry or ITT.

As a bit more IT education advice, figure out what you actually want to do.

If it's coding/programming then go for a CS degree. However, MOST IT jobs don't do a whole lot of coding - I spend maybe 10% of my time coding and most of that is writing SQL queries.

On the other hand if you want to do some implementation (where most of the jobs are) - either in support, network tech, etc. - then look at a program that will give you actual knowledge and certification in those areas.

See if you can get some Symantec (now that they own Altiris, they are one of the largest deployment solutions out there - it's what I use) or some Cisco relevant training.

The people I've had interview that have Masters' in CS were utterly useless when it came to real-world implementation and support. Sorry if you have a CS degree, I don't mean to imply that you are useless, but a CS degree is primarily aimed at writing code. The CS interviewees didn't know how to image a computer (via Ghost, RapidDeploy, WIM, whatever, or RadMind for Mac. . .) which is one of the most basic and often-performed tasks in a user-support or implementation arena.


Hope this helps a bit.

 

[Misplaced_Canuck]

I'll second what everyone has said here: Devry and ITT are unfortunately not seen too well in the IT industry. A local college (even a Technical College or Community college) that's well established will look better on your resume.

I've been in IT for nearly 20 years, and I run a database group (not a big one, only 2 guys work for me), and given the choice between a college grad vs ITT/Devry, all things being equal, the college grad will win 95% of the time.

I will say, though, that after 5 or 10 years of IT experience, they aren't quite as far apart, and the experience plays a bigger role. It's really the first job that will be the tough one to get.

It's a well known fact that if you've been in IT for 10+ years, whatever you learned back then is probably not used anymore, or it's a legacy system (which are a completely different subject).

I graduated in 91 and I was taught all the mainframe stuff. I'm glad I learned it, but I haven't used it ever and honestly would prefer not to use it(!), but it's always good to have.

Just today I was explaining to a developer how the minus sign is stored in binary inside a long number!

Shoot for the college at all costs - if you can.

M_C

 

[izatt82]

I choose None, waste of money. get a degree from a real CS school or just teach yourself. If math is a problem than it's a good chance you need to work on your general problem solving skills. Many real schools have night programs and online programs.

 

[chumprock]

I've been in this industry over 15 years, and I havent met an IIT/DeVry "grad" that was worth his salt. I have worked with several co-op and interns from universities that were smarter than me..
So I dont hold much value for those "trade schools", but a formal comp sci or EE degree would be worthwhile.

I guess either would be ok for basic knowledge, but it really wont be enough on a resume for more than an entry level job anyway. If you are already somewhat computer literate, find a specialty to focus on and get certified in that.

 

[izatt82]

http://www.csufresno.edu/csci/

check this out, much more the route needed to go for this. Also just a word of advise a degree in infosec isn't going to get you an infosec job, and if it can shoot me a PM about it because as far as i can tell security is the hardest sector of IT work to get into. Even though there is a large demand most people want security experience.

 

[Bobby_M]

I was hired directly out of DeVry into my current company 15 years ago and have since finished up a BS in Tech Management with Keller Online with transfered credits. No, I didn't frame the degree and hang it on the wall but I have the degree and experience now. I do agree that MOST of the people I went to school with were a few cogs short of a working machine but I refuse to accept I was one of them. The truth is, most of the teachers there actually work in the field that they teach. That is worth something over college professors that have been sitting around teaching for years. The problem with the reputation of these schools is more about how easy it is to get into and the resulting numbskulls that come pouring in.

 

[snccoulter]

Thank you all. My options (ARE) ITT Tech or DeVry. That is what the VA is going to send me to. I undersatnd a lot of people dont like either school, but I was a cop in the Air Force for 15.5 years and only know I want to work and need to start somewhere. The problem is I have no experiance in anyting but being a cop and I cannot do that any more due to injuries. I have been tinkering with computers and I have an intrest in the field. I have to start somewhere and the VA is willing to send me to one of these two schools, help with transportation, child care provide an income while I am going to school about 3500 tax free. Since through all the evals I have done basically says I am unemployable at this time, due to my injuries. I have zero marketable skills and I can't be a grunt anymore. So if you were in my shoes would you decide to go to DeVry or ITT Tech. I know some of you are saying just go get hired somewhere and get OJT but you have to have the basics to even do that, and there is no way I will be able to start at 3500 a month with child care and transportation coverd aslo. So this seems like a viable option.

 

[mrtrav]

I do agree that MOST of the people I went to school with were a few cogs short of a working machine but I refuse to accept I was one of them. The truth is, most of the teachers there actually work in the field that they teach. That is worth something over college professors that have been sitting around teaching for years. The problem with the reputation of these schools is more about how easy it is to get into and the resulting numbskulls that come pouring in.

+1 to that. I also went to DeVry to get my degree, mostly because I was uninspired in HS and believe it or not, our local community college was less regarded then DeVry/ITT. The education I got there was good, but not great. Most of the professors knew their material very well, however alot of the students who go there remain uninspired and just float on through. There are the people who actually give a **** about learning, like me and Bobby above, who actually spend the time learning the material and get a good education out of it. It has allowed me to go from basic IT helpdesk jobs to now doing 100% coding jobs.

To the naysayers above, DeVry is actually an accredited university.

 

[izatt82]

just some questions, so where are your tech skills now? do you know how TCPIP works? routing? DNS? Active Directory? command line? Linux? perl? java?
not trying to hammer you just wondering if we can help point you toward some stuff you can start to learn now to give you skills that people look for.

 

[snccoulter]

I have the basic understanding on how the systems work but no real skills other than simple user abilitys.

 

[izatt82]

also, here is a common problem. someone is trying to connect remotely to a server (doesn't matter what application or protocol for this) they cannot connect. what are the first troubleshooting steps to narrow this problem down? if you don't know just ask and we can help you learn your first little pieces of the dark basement world. hahahahaha "how many times did you restart?"

 

[MalFet]

Thank you all. My options (ARE) ITT Tech or DeVry. That is what the VA is going to send me to. I undersatnd a lot of people dont like either school, but I was a cop in the Air Force for 15.5 years and only know I want to work and need to start somewhere. The problem is I have no experiance in anyting but being a cop and I cannot do that any more due to injuries. I have been tinkering with computers and I have an intrest in the field. I have to start somewhere and the VA is willing to send me to one of these two schools, help with transportation, child care provide an income while I am going to school about 3500 tax free. Since through all the evals I have done basically says I am unemployable at this time, due to my injuries. I have zero marketable skills and I can't be a grunt anymore. So if you were in my shoes would you decide to go to DeVry or ITT Tech. I know some of you are saying just go get hired somewhere and get OJT but you have to have the basics to even do that, and there is no way I will be able to start at 3500 a month with child care and transportation coverd aslo. So this seems like a viable option.

Definitely go for it then. Anecdotally, I've had more positive encounters with DeVry grads than ITT Tech grads, but others may have different experiences.

I'm sure you'll run into some bright folks, and if you show that you are more self-motivated than your peers you should be able to forge some good relationships with the teachers. The downside is that the degree might not necessarily open any doors for you, but it does give you some time with a paycheck to pick up skills.

My hunch is that there are more jobs to be had in networking than in security, but it's all about getting that first job. Nobody will care what your training is in once you have an experience history.

 

[izatt82]

My hunch is that there are more jobs to be had in networking than in security, but it's all about getting that first job. Nobody will care what your training is in once you have an experience history.

first one is a b!tch right now, but after that doors will start to open.

 

[Bobby_M]

If it's DeVry or ITT, I'll just say that my department within a large telecom software company has hired at least 20 Devry grads in the last 15 years and zero from ITT. That's just one tiny tiny sample for ya.

 

[izatt82]

oh and go check out NMAP and wireshark they are your friends

 

[snccoulter]

I have t agree the first one will be a _________ and I have to figure there will be more jobs in Networking than Security but to get your BA in Security you get the AA in networking so I may as well got for both and at least have the undrstand of the security side.

 

[snccoulter]

If it's DeVry or ITT, I'll just say that my department within a large telecom software company has hired at least 20 Devry grads in the last 15 years and zero from ITT. That's just one tiny tiny sample for ya.

Now that is the sore of info I have been looking for. Thanks

 

[Misplaced_Canuck]

Since you have a policing background, I would say that is a VERY positive aspect to security. Combine networking and security and you'll definitely have something to work with!

I can't speak for either of Devry or ITT as I have no experience hiring anyone from either.

Don't be afraid to go a lot deeper into certain subjects during your studies than the teacher is teaching. Especially true of the current high-demand positions. Java, .Net, databases (others will chime in I'm sure). I wouldn't sweat it too much on Cobol if they still force you to take it. Just pass the class with a decent grade.

M_C

 

[mpruett]

I disagree, look at how many jobs are out there for IT. Do a simple search on indeed.com and you'll see there are jobs out there. The problem with unemployed IT guys are they are either outdated, live in a limited area, job experience with no education, or they think they are worth more than they are and won't take a job paying less than XXX,XXX.

If you can't get a job, spend $250 to get a new cert and revamp your resume.

I think that the reasons he mentions are the right ones- those guys are usually Y2k or dot-bomb refugees who never should have been in the industry to begin with, but got hired because they could walk and chew gum at the same time back around 1999-2001.

For those of us with real chops, the job market seems to have perked up quite a bit in the past 5-6 months, at least here in the D/FW area.

I'd look into a community college program if you could. AFAIK, nowhere I"ve worked has hired DeVry or ITT grads for much of anything.

 

[o4_srt]

also, here is a common problem. someone is trying to connect remotely to a server (doesn't matter what application or protocol for this) they cannot connect. what are the first troubleshooting steps to narrow this problem down? if you don't know just ask and we can help you learn your first little pieces of the dark basement world. hahahahaha "how many times did you restart?"

******* operator knocked his cat5/6/fiber cable while laughing his ass off at dumb YouTube videos, cable is now disconnected.

Problem solved. It's usually operator error.

 

[dallasdb]

I have t agree the first one will be a _________ and I have to figure there will be more jobs in Networking than Security but to get your BA in Security you get the AA in networking so I may as well got for both and at least have the undrstand of the security side.

You DON'T have to get an AA first! That is a way for a school to get more $$$ out of you. If you want a Bachelors get enrolled in a Bachelors from the beginning.

Seriously check out Westwood College, Bachelors of Science in Information Technology: Major in Systems Security is only 36 months. You learn both network admin and security.

PM me your personal email and I will give you my buddies name to call and get honest info from. He is a student and loves the program.

 

[RiverCityBrewer]

I went through DeVry also several years ago, and while I couldn't recommend it if you are footing the bill, if someone else is paying it go ahead. I was in the same situation as you in the early 2000's and I was working a dead end job with terrible hours (lots of OT) and I just couldn't swing going to an actual school, so online was it for me. At the time there was DeVry, Phoenix, and some other school that I can't remember and that was about it. I chose DeVry, went through the IT course in security and at the moment I work for the government doing IT security (I was hired just before I graduated) and I do security consulting work on the side. Granted, I didn't go in with no knowledge of the subject matter, actually quite the opposite, but there weren't many programs that recognized IT security skills as an actual degree. There are lots of naysayers here about the school, but I would love to compare W2's with them.

Bobby was dead on about some of the peers there, but the teachers definitely know their stuff. However when I think back to when I was at a large state university, many of my peers that were there are still delivering pizzas now if that tells you anything. Some of the coursework was slightly dated, but then again so are many of the certs I have taken lately. DeVry is accredited by the Higher Learning Commission which is recognized by the Dept of Education, so just like any other college, you can transfer credits to schools that are accredited by the same people but anything else is a crapshoot.

Like any college education, you are going to have to work hard to succeed, but some seem to think that a degree entitles them to something regardless of what they actually know. I can tell you that to get into security you will have to work your ass off both in school and on your own and then convince someone to hire you as an entry level security analyst and work your way up. There is no free lunch.

Good luck.