Competition entry, American Stout vs American Porter

[tyrub42]

Sorry for bringing up this old question again, but just wanted to get some opinions from bjcp judges and frequent competitors. I have what I originally intended to be an American Stout but I am thinking I should change it to the American Porter category in an upcoming comp. I'll include some pics. It's super dark brown to black in color.

Here are the specs:


-7.5 gal batch (28 liters)

-4.5 kg pale ale malt

-1kg oats

-.5kg rye

-.5kg caramunich 1

-.4kg chocolate malt

-.3kg roasted barely

-FG 1.017

-ABV 6.1

-Medium to medium-full body

-bittered to 32 ibu plus a light eureka charge at flameout so lightly hoppy.

-no noticeable rye flavor, or extremely subtle except the finish

-hops and rye dry the finish a bit while the oats fill out the mouth feel


The roast is there, but it's not at all aggressive and has no real burnt character. The aroma and flavor are very reminiscent of coffee but without any burnt dark roast character. The only two porters I can remember well are Anchor Porter and heretic shallow grave. It’s fuller in body and more robust than Anchor Porter, but I wouldn't say it's rostier. The body is probably similar to Shallow Grave.


So bjcp judges and veteran competitors, would you agree that changing this to 20A American Porter is a good call, or should I keep it on 20B?


Thanks!
Tyler

 

[specharka]

My take on it is porter is supposed to be more dry, less roast, and with a lighter mouthfeel. You can use the same grains but in different proportions. It sounds like based on your recipe and finishing gravity that you brewed a stout. Not all stouts have to be super roasty, either. You can always enter it as an oatmeal stout, which is not as dominated by roast character.

Looks mighty tasty either way. Good luck!

 

[tyrub42]

My take on it is porter is supposed to be more dry, less roast, and with a lighter mouthfeel. You can use the same grains but in different proportions. It sounds like based on your recipe and finishing gravity that you brewed a stout. Not all stouts have to be super roasty, either. You can always enter it as an oatmeal stout, which is not as dominated by roast character.

Thanks! I gave it a thought, but the hoppiness and ABV don't fit that category. Due to that it's basically down to 20A or 20B

 

[dmtaylor]

I honestly don't think it matters which one you pick. Porter and Stout are really the same thing. On the one hand, it should be a stout since it's 6% ABV. On the other hand, if the roast is very mild, it will likely score better as a porter. Flip a coin. Seriously, it doesn't matter, shouldn't matter, and BJCP should combine the 2 categories in my opinion.

Dave Taylor
BJCP Certified Judge #A0511

 

[specharka]

Thanks! I gave it a thought, but the hoppiness and ABV don't fit that category. Due to that it's basically down to 20A or 20B

I could see it getting dinged if you have some fruity hoppy aroma but otherwise you’d be fine. Most comps don’t ask for the deets either (unless it’s a pro-am).

 

[tyrub42]

Thanks for the responses! I guess I'll go with Porter due to the lighter roast. I'll let you know what the feedback is.

 

[Blackdirt_cowboy]

Why not enter it in both?

 

[tyrub42]

Why not enter it in both?

Haha, well I only have 3 small bottles left (which is what is required for submission), plus every entry that is a finalist must have 4 liters delivered to the awards ceramony. On the off chance both were finalists, I'd have to bring 8 liters of a beer I would like to have around to drink

Edit: I have plenty of large bottles to bring, just only have 3 of the small ones.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

My take on it is porter is supposed to be more dry, less roast, and with a lighter mouthfeel. You can use the same grains but in different proportions.

Historically it would have been the same grains in the same proportions, as they were partigyled together, stout just had more of the first runnings and so was stronger. But these days that distinction on the basis of ABV has disappeared - in fact the influence of Guinness is now so strong that in the UK the average porter is 0.1% stronger than the average stout. So you have to distinguish on flavour, and although it's a bit of a mess to be honest (especially once you throw strong milds in the mix) in the UK these days "stout" tends to imply something drier and roastier in the Dublin mould (with Guinness as the benchmark) but not so much the Cork/London stouts, whereas porters are richer and more in the chocolate direction. It feels like another area where the BJCP doesn't describe styles well, or at least not as they are on modern bars.

I can't really speak for US porter/stout as I don't drink enough of them, but to my mind the big difference is a more overt hop presence than their Old World cousins - you can usually account for higher ABV alone by using some of the lesser-known export variants of the Old World dark beers. For instance, it looks like you hit the numbers for a 16C Tropical Stout, which might be another one to consider if the hop presence isn't too strong.

 

[tyrub42]

Historically it would have been the same grains in the same proportions, as they were partigyled together, stout just had more of the first runnings and so was stronger. But these days that distinction on the basis of ABV has disappeared - in fact the influence of Guinness is now so strong that in the UK the average porter is 0.1% stronger than the average stout. So you have to distinguish on flavour, and although it's a bit of a mess to be honest (especially once you throw strong milds in the mix) in the UK these days "stout" tends to imply something drier and roastier in the Dublin mould (with Guinness as the benchmark) but not so much the Cork/London stouts, whereas porters are richer and more in the chocolate direction. It feels like another area where the BJCP doesn't describe styles well, or at least not as they are on modern bars.

I can't really speak for US porter/stout as I don't drink enough of them, but to my mind the big difference is a more overt hop presence than their Old World cousins - you can usually account for higher ABV alone by using some of the lesser-known export variants of the Old World dark beers. For instance, it looks like you hit the numbers for a 16C Tropical Stout, which might be another one to consider if the hop presence isn't too strong.

Haha, yes I am pretty in line with 16c as well. The hops are definitely faded compared to the beer fresh, but it does still have a hoppiness to it, so it would likely not do too well. Also TBH I have a good buddy in the same category as 16c (English Ales), but no one else I know is in the American category