Clearing my beer

[RobJ]

Hi all
I've tried dissolving gelatine in water as instructed then adding it the my batch but 10 days later it's still a bit cloudy snd the gelatine lumps r just floating, any help wud b good


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[Natdavis777]

Was the beer cold when you added the gelatin mixture? The method that works best for myself is when ready to clear your beer, cold crash it for a few days first. This helps drop out some material. After it's nice and cold, Prepare your gelatin mixture ( I put water in a Pyrex dish and microwave for a few minutes to sterilize, and then mix in the gelatin). Pour this in the carboy, keg, etc whatever vessel you are using. Let it sit a few more days and should be clear. Rack to keg or bottle


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[jro238]

Just to make sure we're on the same page with the gelatin: Did you heat water up to ~150-155F and mix the gelatin in before dumping it into your beer? Also, how much gelatin did you use (and for how much beer)?

I have always had very good results using gelatin.

 

[RobJ]

I mixed 3 x 9g sachets of home baking gelatine as instructed on box with 20 teaspoons of cold water, let that sit for 10 mins, it turned to a gel so I broke lumps off and split them between my 2 containers which amounted to 40lt, the lumps have been floating in the beer for 10 days


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[feedbag]

The gelatin needs to be dissolved before adding to the cold beer. If it's a gel before you add it, it's going to just float around. You heat water and gelatin mixture to around 150 and end up with a clear smooth liquid that you then add to already chilled beer. Watch this video for a good tutorial. How to use gelatin to clear homebrew.: http://youtu.be/cYaVaCyT2yY

 

[RobJ]

Makes sense no bud, cheers for that, I'll drop I int my keg and copy that vid, happy days


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[BierMuncher]

In order to maximize the effectiveness of gelatin:

1. Mix one Tbsp per 5 gallons of beer in about 4 ounces of cool water.
2. Allow the gelatin to hydrate and "bloom" for a few minutes.
3. Place over medium heat and stir until water becomes hot and gelatin dissolves completely. Do not boil.
4. Pour mixture into the empty keg. No need to let it cool.
5. Rack unchilled beer into the keg.

• (Pouring gelatin into prechilled beer will cause the gelatin to coagulate and not dissolve completely.)

Seal up your keg and chill using your normal CO2 charging protocol.

Beer should be running very clear in a couple of days (after a few pints have been pulled), and be crystal clear within a week.

 

[kombat]

Pouring gelatin into prechilled beer will cause the gelatin to coagulate and not dissolve completely.

Hmm, I've never heard that. By the time you're pouring it into the beer, the gelatin is already "dissolved," into the cup of water you heat up in the microwave. By the time I pour it into my beer, it just looks like plain water, maybe with a barely noticeable yellow hue to it.

I've always heard that the gelatin is more effective if the beer is already chilled. I always move my carboys into the fridge a day before I add the gelatin, and I've never noticed the gelatin instantly clumping up when being added. I've always had good results adding hot gelatin to cold beer.

 

[BierMuncher]

Hmm, I've never heard that. By the time you're pouring it into the beer, the gelatin is already "dissolved," into the cup of water you heat up in the microwave. By the time I pour it into my beer, it just looks like plain water, maybe with a barely noticeable yellow hue to it.

I've always heard that the gelatin is more effective if the beer is already chilled. I always move my carboys into the fridge a day before I add the gelatin, and I've never noticed the gelatin instantly clumping up when being added. I've always had good results adding hot gelatin to cold beer.

Step one to making jello is "cook" gelatin in hot water until dissolved.
Step two to making jello is to chill said mixture.

Pouring one cup of dissolved gelatin into a 36 degree keg is like step two above. You may not see cubes of jiggling jello in your beer, but that gelatin is tightening up like a pair of testicles in Lake Michigan in December.

To "maximize" the effects of gelatin, it needs to be fully dissolved in unchilled beer.

The other advantage is that you're performing two steps at once...add gelatin and chill... vs waiting for the beer to chill so you can add the gelatin and then waiting for the gelatin to do its thing before serving. Call me impatient, but shaving a few days off the process means that pint will be ready on Friday night when I get home from work instead of Sunday.

 

[Natdavis777]

I've always poured my gelatin mixture on chilled beer and never had an issue.

More than one way to skin a cat though...


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[RobJ]

Cheers for the advice, knew that the lumps of gelatin floating about in the beer weren't right, read a Dave live book and he said to use 15 grams and to follow the instructions, they just said to dissolve it in cold water, s I had to break lumps off and drop them in, never mind hopefully all sorted now, cheers.
Got a new problem now but I'll start another thread.


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[dogslapbrewery]

First time gelatin user and I had some questions when it comes to carbonation. So I carb at 30psi and shake it about for 30-60 seconds two days in a row and it turns out perfect. Now if I use gelatin should I pull off a pint or two after the gelatin has done its thing then shake about or is it ok to shake after the gelatin and it'll just settle out after a day or two??

 

[RobJ]

I'm new to this aswell bud so well see what the experts have to say, I've put the gelatin in and gave it a few bursts of gas, gona pull u few pints off later tho week and see off it's cleared, then gas it some more, if it hasn't cleared I might rack it again and a more gelatin (before adding more gas), playing about with this one till I get it right


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[dogslapbrewery]

So I dumped my Gelatin then decided to shake carb for 3 mins at 30psi so I'm hoping that'll be enough. 2-3 days from now I'm gonna pull off all the goodness and if it still needs more carb I'll at least have pulled most of the haze out. I did realize this morning I forgot to purge after pouring my gelatin in so hopefully I didn't oxidizes the crap out of it...

 

[Natdavis777]

Clear the beer before you carb. After you let the gelatin do it's thing for a few days pull off a few pints and then carb using your preferred method. This way you aren't waiting for the particulates to re-settle before pulling off your beer.


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[hunter_le five]

To "maximize" the effects of gelatin, it needs to be fully dissolved in unchilled beer.

I've always poured my gelatin mixture on chilled beer and never had an issue.

Ditto. I've ALWAYS added gelatin to near-freezing beer. Never had coagulation issues/floaters.

In fact, I've always been told that the beer MUST be chilled in order for the gelatin to be effective. (Don't know if that's true or not, just what I was told).

Not trying to be argumentative or contradictory, just searching for the truth here. I've never tried adding gelatin to unchilled beer, so I can't attest that this method does not work as well. Maybe it works either way. I don't know.

Anyone else want to chime in?

 

[hawktrio]

My guess is that at low temps the gelatine is more likely to solidify and fall out of suspension stopping it from bonding to the yeast and proteins that cause cloudiness. I add gelatine at the end of the diacetyl rest then chill immediately in primary. That way when I rack the beer I leave almost all solids behind and therefore out of the keg. I prepare the gelatine by letting 1tsp bloom in 1 cup of room temperature boiled water for 30mins or so. Then I zap in microwave 4-5 times for 10secs a pop to dissolve and reach about 125℉ and then I dump it in warm. Isn't it great we all find different ways to get good results!

 

[RobJ]

That's the way I've done it hawk, I can't confirm it's worked yet but am going to find out tomoz, it's been in over a week now sitting in my shed (not chilled but defo not hot), going to pull a few pints off then fizz it up, I did try to add the gas straight away but gas valve was faulty so I'll add the gas after it's cleared, I'll let that sit for a few days in the fridge, then hopefully sneak a few in on Sunday. I'm assuming that these are still classed as green beers and that they'll get better if left for a month or so, they taste spot on now, can't believe how good for my first AG attempt, my mates are begging for kegs after tasting it cloudy, so cleared I havnt got a chance.


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[JaimeTheLimey]

I've never had the gelatin solidify at low temps. I usually add gelatin after a few days in keg force carbing to cool the beer down so it can fine out the haze-forming proteins. First couple pours are dirty but after that it's all good.
In case anyone is a veggie or has veggie friends, Agar works just as well as gelatin and is used as a 1:1 ratio.

 

[greyghost]

When you pour the gelatine in a carboy do you stir it or just pour it in?

 

[RobJ]

Save to say it's worked!!!! Nice and clear..... Method, took beer out of fermentation cupboard, racked it into carboy, whilst it was syphoning I prepared gelatin, dumped that in and gave it a good shake, I've let it sit for 10 days, now tonight I'm going to syphon into corni keg leaving a couple of litres behind, going to gas it up and hopefully, slurp a few on Sunday!!!! Happy days


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[kombat]

racked it into carboy, whilst it was syphoning I prepared gelatin, dumped that in and gave it a good shake

What do you mean you "gave it a good shake?" The carboy? Like the same way you might aerate your wort before pitching yeast at the beginning?

I just want to make sure you didn't shake your carboy full of post-fermentation beer. That would aerate your beer and cause it to become horribly oxidized.

At most, you might *gently stir* the gelatin into solution, but in my experience, you don't even need to do that. I just pour mine in.

 

[RobJ]

I gave it a shake in the carboy when the gelatin was added


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[jro238]

I gave it a shake in the carboy when the gelatin was added


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Yeahhhhhhh. For future reference, I would definitely not do this. The only time I consider shaking beer is when it is in a CO2 flushed keg. This won't kill your beer or anything but it will probably shorten its shelf life (moreso if it is not kept cold).

 

[MindenMan]

I have had mixed outcomes using gelatin, one batch was cloudy beer with gelatin snot in the bottom of the bucket, and one was clear with a hard puck of yuck in the bottom of the bucket. As I remember, the bucket of snot was colder than the other one, when the gelatin was added to it. A while back, I started using Irish Moss as a fining agent, and I always make sure I get completely past the hot break, and cold crash until clear.

 

[RobJ]

I've used Irish moss on both batches, added a t spoon for the last 15 mins of the boil, what do you mean about the cold crash, will defo try different ways, so only shake in the keg wen I've added gas?? Cheers


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[jro238]

gelatin works great when heated in water to ~150F then poured into cold beer (stirring optional). It will bind to most particulates (based on charge) and cause them to fall out of solution. This will leave a layer of gunk at the bottom of your vessel which you can flush out and have nice, clear beer.

Never oxygenate fermented beer, it will oxidize and taste like wet cardboard, sherry, or just generally stale. If you do shake anything, make sure the vessel is flushed with CO2 (common way to quickly carbonate a keg).

 

[Bryceefisher]

The best method to clear using gelatin is to cold crash in the carboy for one to two days (this allows for the proteins and tannins to bind and haze the beer). Add the properly prepared gelatin to cold beer and do not stir. This allows it to settle and pull down the haze with it. Allow 3-5 days before bottling or kegging. Any gelatinous formation is the result of gelatin that was heated beyond 150-170f (making beer jello).

 

[RobJ]

So really don't shake at all?? Watched a vid, the link it in this thread, after he's added gelatin he adds gas and gives it a little shake, he says usually he doesn't shake but he'd heard a few guy like to shake it so he was giving it a try. I'm not going to shake a c if I get same results as the one I shook, cheers


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[kombat]

So really don't shake at all??

No, definitely DO NOT shake the carboy after adding gelatin. In the video, he shook it in a keg, because he's added CO2. If you do it in a carboy, you cannot purge the oxygen (because kegs are designed to hold pressure, but carboys are not), and you will oxidize your beer.

As I said, you can give it a GENTLE stir with a sanitized stirring spoon, if you want, but I get great results without any agitation at all. I just pour it in.

 

[RobJ]

CHEERS!!!!!!!!!!!


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[RobJ]

I'll not be shaking at all, I've watched the vid a few times and he doesn't really shake it more of a tip from side to to side, even then he says he doesn't normally do that, really pleased with my first attempt tho, tastes great and nice and clear, cheers for the help everyone ;-)


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[RobJ]

The beer in the pic is spot on, not to much fizz and has a great head but the stout I've done won't keep it's head, I've got the Co2 in the corni at 20 psi, the fizz is ok and it's a nice drink but the head disappears after a couple of mouth fulls, the head isn't great to start with, I've still got about 30 litres in me barrels so don't know whether to try and bottle some, or whether the just leave it in the keg for a bit longer and see what it's like. It's only been gassed for 2 days, any experience anyone????? Cheers


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[hawktrio]

Had the same problems in the early carb days with my IPA. After a week the head is excellent with nice lacing. Retention is average though.

 

[hawktrio]

I just read on madfermentationist that it is important to chill to 32℉ before adding gelatin. The explanation given is that you want chill haze to form so then the gelatin can also strip this out. Googling found other reputable sites making the same recommendation so I'm changing my process henceforth.

 

[RobJ]

Will defo try that on my next batch, left my stout now for 4 days so will try tomoz an see wot it's like, cheers pal


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[BierMuncher]

I just read on madfermentationist that it is important to chill to 32℉ before adding gelatin. The explanation given is that you want chill haze to form so then the gelatin can also strip this out. Googling found other reputable sites making the same recommendation so I'm changing my process henceforth.

Sorry. I cannot agree. Chill haze is due to protien particulates remaining in the beer. They exist regardless of whether the beer is at room temperature, or chilled. We attempt to minimize the protein through rigorous hot break (a good rolling boil) and quick and thorough cold break (quickly chilling the beer to fermentation temps, post-boil.)

All that chilling the beer does is cause the remaining protien to "solidify" and become visible (hence the "cloudy beer" we are trying to avoid). This does not make the gelatins' effect any more efficient.

The fact that gelatin GELATINIZES at colder temperatures, means adding dissolved gelatin to a cold keg is like putting your moms jello mold in the fridge.

While I've heard people say that adding gelatin to cold kegs has produced satisfactroy clearing results. There is a difference between getting "satisfactory" results and scoring consitently high in a competition because your double dry-hopped IIPA was "sparkling clear".

If you want to experiment, chill a 1-gallon jar of water to 32 degrees (as earlier suggested), and then cook up your gelatin as usual, but add a few drops of food color. See what happens when you add that dissolved gelatin mix to a jar of near freezing water. My guess is you will have jello at the bottom of your jar. Solidified jello does not clear beer, gelatin dissolved in suspension does.

 

[opiate82]

That is interesting BM. I have always heard it the way hawktrio (via TMF) has said it, to chill first then add gelatin. I was under the impression that the gelatin grabs the haze-causing particulates as it congeals. Are you saying that you will get better results if gelatin is added to the beer at fermenting temps?

 

[fearwig]

Of course, they're coagulating at 32F, so shouldn't they bind to and drop out with the gelatin more readily that way?

I mean it sounds to me like even if your point is correct there might be something to be said for adding gelatin to room temp beer and then cold crashing it all together. Maybe I'm subscribing to a myth but it makes sense that coagulated haze proteins are more accessible to the gelatin than the uncoagulated ones.

 

[hawktrio]

Thanks guys. Love the discussion here. BM my logic was the same as what you are saying by adding gelatin at room temp and I've d super results with this method. I'm keen to conduct the ezperiment as I'm now in limbo on this one. How can I simulate the chill haze proteins without making a small beer?