Clean, Fast Ale Yeast?

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Clint Yeastwood

Clint Yeastwood

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Is there anything out there that has a profile like US-05 but ferments more vigorously and finishes faster? I make an ale with Abbaye, and I would like a cleaner version. Anything that will make a good IPA is fine.
 
That also looks like it will work. My issue with US-05 is that I have had it zip along for a day or two and then take a long time to finish.
 
If you want fast and clean then go with Omega Lutra. It’s a clean kveik yeast that will finish in a few days. It’s super clean at 70F. I have heard it’s clean even in the 80s but I’ve never tried it that warm.
 
I just used Lutra in an imperial stout, but I can't tell how clean it is because imperial stout is like mud with hops. I have seen people say it tastes like citrus.
 
I used it in a cold IPA a couple weeks ago and it’s great with that. Seems super clean to me. I used citra and Amarillo so it’s a little hard to tell if the yeast is giving any citrus 😅
 
Pitching at a higher rate increases the rate of fermentation. So pitch your preferred yeast at a higher rate. If it’s a quicker turnaround you’re looking for, don’t forget to factor in how well the yeast flocculate to produce bright beer. I’ve never understood the BS logic of pitching kveik at >30C to get fermentation done in a day or two then wait weeks for the beer to condition properly. Or pretend beer’s supposed to taste like that.
 
McMullan said:
Pitching at a higher rate increases the rate of fermentation. So pitch your preferred yeast at a higher rate. If it’s a quicker turnaround you’re looking for, don’t forget to factor in how well the yeast flocculate to produce bright beer. I’ve never understood the BS logic of pitching kveik at >30C to get fermentation done in a day or two then wait weeks for the beer to condition properly. Or pretend beer’s supposed to taste like that.
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Kveik doesn't need aging. In fact, it's the only yeast type I know of that tastes almost instantly like it should. If you like that taste or not is written on another paper though.

I've pitched and fermented kveiks at 35c, done after two days, then bottled, carbed up and it's basically ready. One or two more weeks and it dropped bright. Just like other yeasts after carbing.

And just for the record, also lutra tastes like kveik. Not as strong as others, but it does. It takes some time for the flavour to develop but after a few weeks in the bottle it usually shows. Unless you have pure hop juice, then you might not recognise that.
 
Miraculix said:
Kveik doesn't need aging. In fact, it's the only yeast type I know of that tastes almost instantly like it should. If you like that taste or not is written on another paper though.

I've pitched and fermented kveiks at 35c, done after two days, then bottled, carbed up and it's basically ready. One or two more weeks and it dropped bright. Just like other yeasts after carbing.

And just for the record, also lutra tastes like kveik. Not as strong as others, but it does. It takes some time for the flavour to develop but after a few weeks in the bottle it usually shows. Unless you have pure hop juice, then you might not recognise that.
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Worse than I imagined then, if it doesn’t improve. And the phrase ‘ready’ has been redefined to something like “it won’t improve so as ready as it’s ever going to be”. “Ready”, the new ready. I suspect those funky off flavours associated with kveik get left behind at distillation so they’ve never been selected against. At least not over the last 200 years of moonshining in Norway.
 
McMullan said:
Worse than I imagined then, if it doesn’t improve. And the phrase ‘ready’ has been redefined to something like “it won’t improve so as ready as it’s ever going to be”. “Ready”, the new ready. I suspect those funky off flavours associated with kveik get left behind at distillation so they’ve never been selected against. At least not over the last 200 years of moonshining in Norway.
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If kveiks are used within a low-ish ibu and higher abv recipe, they can be surprisingly nice. I've brewed a 7,5% abv beer with about 20 ibus and 30% of the grist was different type of rye malts. That one worked really well. And best is, it didn't change over time. Didn't need aging but still was as nice as on day one after 9 months.

But otherwise, except for these specific kveik tailored recipes, I wouldn't recommend kveik. It is just too unique in taste. Doesn't work with the usual beer styles.

I wouldn't call the specific flavour an off-flavour. It's how kveik tastes. Different yeasts have different flavours. A Hefeweizen yeast is expected to give it's distinctive taste as well as a Saison yeast. That's not what I would call an off flavour either. Off flavor is unexpected our not intentional. Kveiks taste like kveik and that's fine. That's why they don't work in most beer styles but as nobody would expect a full blown Saison yeast to work well in a pilsner, it's all good.
 
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Miraculix said:
And just for the record, also lutra tastes like kveik. Not as strong as others, but it does. It takes some time for the flavour to develop but after a few weeks in the bottle it usually shows. Unless you have pure hop juice, then you might not recognise that.
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I have tasted several "lagers" made with Lutra. They were all disappointing. Had they been presented as ales, I would have called them "ok" but not my cup of tea. But as lagers? Meh. It's the participation trophy strain.
 
VikeMan said:
I have tasted several "lagers" made with Lutra. They were all disappointing. Had they been presented as ales, I would have called them "ok" but not my cup of tea. But as lagers? Meh. It's the participation trophy strain.
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Yep, kveik tastes like kveik. As such, they need recipes that pair well with the kveikness that they all deliver.
 
From the title: Clean, Fast Ale Yeast?

Clint Yeastwood said:
a profile like US-05 but ferments more vigorously and finishes faster?
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Nottingham (maltier ales); Verdant (hopier styles). I generally ferment at around 65F with them.

WLP001 (dry).

BRY-97 (a couple of recent batches): I get much shorter lag times when pitched warmer (68F or above).

Apex San Diego: (4 recent batches) - seems to have a similar start / finish performance when compared to US-05.


For some strains (I haven't used US-05 for a couple of years), it appears that dry pitching warmer (say wort at 70F), then allowing it to cool (wort at 65F) decreases lag time.

Re-hydration may have a similar effect.

Pitching a starter may be an option (and would reduce yeast cost).


 
I second on Nottingham and Bry-97. I made a few APAs with Bry-97 and an IPA that came out good. To reduce lag time pitch more or rehydrate the Bry-97 or maybe start warmer and reduce temp after it gets going.
 
One more vote for notti from me. It's my lonely island yeast that can do everything.

Bry97 is a notorious lagger if you are not pitching double the usual amount. Otherwise, it's a clean ale yeast! Clarity is not so good though.
 
Miraculix said:
If kveiks are used within a low-ish ibu and higher abv recipe, they can be surprisingly nice. I've brewed a 7,5% abv beer with about 20 ibus and 30% of the grist was different type of rye malts. That one worked really well. And best is, it didn't change over time. Didn't need aging but still was as nice as on day one after 9 months.

But otherwise, except for these specific kveik tailored recipes, I wouldn't recommend kveik. It is just too unique in taste. Doesn't work with the usual beer styles.

I wouldn't call the specific flavour an off-flavour. It's how kveik tastes. Different yeasts have different flavours. A Hefeweizen yeast is expected to give it's distinctive taste as well as a Saison yeast. That's not what I would call an off flavour either. Off flavor is unexpected our not intentional. Kveiks taste like kveik and that's fine. That's why they don't work in most beer styles but as nobody would expect a full blown Saison yeast to work well in a pilsner, it's all good.
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Not really. Brewer’s yeast profiles have been selected for over time to reflect local beer styles. That didn’t really occur with kveik. Not to the extent it did elsewhere in Europe, where identifiable styles evolved and developed. Brewing beer in Norway wasn’t common enough. Certainly not for an identifiable style to develop. After Denmark’s rule ended, from the beginning of the 19th century, moonshining, primarily rectified potato (which was relatively easy to grow in Norway’s climate, compared with barley and other cereals) was the only viable option for most Norwegians, in terms of home-made alcohol. There were thousands of legally registered stills in Norway during the 19th century and most likely many more unregistered. It’s mainly what promoted Norway’s draconian alcohol regulations (state monopoly) early in the 20th century. Ironically, it just encouraged more home distilling than anything else. Even up to the 90s and 00s, in my experience, home distilling was more common than home brewing in rural Norway. The kveik character - poorly suited for beer - got left behind in spent potato washes during distillation therefore never selected against. But, yes, even standard baker’s bread-making yeast from the supermarket is going to do a fine job in something with enough hops to hide any flaws in the brewing process, including a not-so-complementary yeast profile. In fact, many blind tasters are going to prefer beer fermented with bread yeast, which costs significantly less and it’s available in every local supermarket. It just hasn’t been marketed for making beer yet. Pitch enough and it’s going to ferment most things vigorously and, for some styles, produce a perfectly acceptable beer.
 
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McMullan said:
Not really. Brewer’s yeast profiles have been selected for over time to reflect local beer styles. That didn’t really occur with kveik. Not to the extent it did elsewhere in Europe, where identifiable styles evolved and developed. Brewing beer in Norway wasn’t common enough. Certainly not for an identifiable style to develop. After Denmark’s rule ended, from the beginning of the 19th century, moonshining, primarily rectified potato (which was relatively easy to grow in Norway’s climate, compared with barley and other cereals) was the only viable option for most Norwegians, in terms of home-made alcohol. There were thousands of legally registered stills in Norway during the 19th century and most likely many more unregistered. It’s mainly what promoted Norway’s draconian alcohol regulations (state monopoly) early in the 20th century. Ironically, it just encouraged more home distilling than anything else. Even up to the 90s and 00s, in my experience, home distilling was more common than home brewing in rural Norway. The kveik character - poorly suited for beer - got left behind in spent potato washes during distillation therefore never selected against. But, yes, even standard baker’s bread-making yeast from the supermarket is going to do a fine job in something with enough hops to hide any flaws in the brewing process, including a not-so-complimentary yeast profile. In fact, many blind tasters are going to prefer beer fermented with bread yeast, which costs significantly less and it’s available in every local supermarket. It just hasn’t been marketed for making beer yet. Pitch enough and it’s going to ferment most things vigorously and, for some styles, produce a perfectly acceptable beer.
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Did you actually read what I wrote, or did my post just trigger your automatic kveik response?

It's a special yeast with special expression. Design a recipe that suits these expressions and you got a good beer! I don't care if it originates from my grandpa's shoe or from the 15th century king of that area's most secretly guarded super beer.

Low ibu and higher abv and you got yourself a nice kveik recipe that works well with the given flavour profile.
 
Miraculix said:
Did you actually read what I wrote, or did my post just trigger your automatic kveik response?
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Yes, I did. There is something about the truth that triggers an automatic response in some people, just not me. I’m not lost in an engineered romantic belief of some kind? Norway’s documented history is sufficiently accessible to anyone interested enough.
 
McMullan said:
Yes, I did. There is something about the truth that triggers an automatic response in some people, just not me. I’m not lost in an engineered romantic belief of some kind? Norway’s documented history is sufficiently accessible to anyone interested enough.
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Where did I say something about history? Romantic? What? You must confuse me with someone else.
 
Miraculix said:
Where did I say something about history? Romantic? What? You must confuse me with someone else.
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You clearly ‘sit on the fence’ and recommend it as a brewer’s yeast. I recommend it as a distiller’s yeast. One of us has done the biology and the history.
 
McMullan said:
You clearly ‘sit on the fence’ and recommend it as a brewer’s yeast. I recommend it as a distiller’s yeast. One of us has done the biology and the history.
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If you want to put everything into boxes, it's your choice. It looks a bit like you are trying to tell me what I should like and what not.

I tried the yeast myself as a beer yeast and with the given outlines of the recipe, it resulted in a great and enjoyable beer. Who cares where this yeast originated from? I care about the result and the result was great.

Big disclaimer, it doesn't work well in "normal" beer recipes, from my point of view. I tried that as well.
 
Clint Yeastwood said:
So Kveik is ideal and very clean, but Kveik is not clean and has a characteristic flavor that may ruin the ale. Another day on the Internet.

I think I'll go with S-04. It's dry and cheap, and it sounds like it will be fine.
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Statistically, Nottingham is what you should pitch. And I’d be happy to add that as my recommendation here. Personally, despite being an excellent fermenter and flocculater, I found it too clean for an English IPA. It’s probably an American-like strain (‘cleaner’) and what you’re looking for. Assuming you want to brew a beer, of course.
 
Clint Yeastwood said:
I wonder what they use for Snake Dog.
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Flying Dog has a house strain. Wyeast partnered with Flying Dog and released it many years ago, but I haven't heard about it in a long time. Discontinued would be my guess. I would also guess that it's a Chico offshoot, but that's just a guess.
 
Snake Dog is my favorite factory IPA, but I haven't seen it in a store in years.

The web says they told some guy to try 1056 for a clone, so it sounds like your guess is pretty good. But people claim US-05 is the same thing or close to it, so it seems pointless to try it now.
 
Clint Yeastwood said:
The web says they told some guy to try 1056 for a clone, so it sounds like your guess is pretty good. But people claim US-05 is the same thing or close to it, so it seems pointless to try it now.
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I wouldn't call 1056 a fast floccer, if that's the main concern.
 
Miraculix said:
If you want to put everything into boxes, it's your choice. It looks a bit like you are trying to tell me what I should like and what not.

I tried the yeast myself as a beer yeast and with the given outlines of the recipe, it resulted in a great and enjoyable beer. Who cares where this yeast originated from? I care about the result and the result was great.

Big disclaimer, it doesn't work well in "normal" beer recipes, from my point of view. I tried that as well.
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Quite the opposite. Obviously. I’m not the one trying to sell anything here. That’s why I asked if you were in marketing. I see no other reason for such behaviour. Fact.
 


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Nottingham, for sure. Only issue with it, drops really fast and makes a solid cake. It's supposed to be a good thing, right? Except if you want to bottle it. 2 months to get carb... 🙄
 
Alan Reginato said:
Nottingham, for sure. Only issue with it, drops really fast and makes a solid cake. It's supposed to be a good thing, right? Except if you want to bottle it. 2 months to get carb... 🙄
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At which temperature? Did you cold crash? I've never had any carbing issues with notti and I use it a lot. But I also almost always bottle after seven days.
 
I liked BRY97, but it did take a while to get going. Once it started though, it was ripping until it was done. I routinely now don't even look at any beer I do for at least a week. I take a reading and then figure out my dry hop schedule if there is one so my bottling or kegging is on a day off. That is typically two weeks or so after brew day. But, for me, BRY97 has been a good yeast. As has S05. Did my first test with dry WLP001 and it seemed to do ok as well.
 

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