Cider problems. Help!

[SweetBaby_Lou]

So I tried my hand at fermenting some fresh pressed cider from a local orchard. I had 2 cleaned and sanitized five gallon buckets filled. The idea was to pitch 2 different yeasts for 2 different resulting ciders. This is my first attempt brewing cider without a boil opting for campden tablets instead. I also tried some pectic enzyme as well as yeast nutrient in each bucket.

My first mistake was not to take an O.G. I have already racked into secondary fermentor since bubbling in airlock had been inactive for at least a week.
It racked beautifully. I poured a small sample of each while racking and it is crystal clear resembling the dry ciders i enjoy. The problem is it tastes more like I made some expensive apple juice rather than a hard cider.

I am not sure what to do at this point. I have 2 carboys staring me in the face. Should I try pitching more yeast or could the pectic enzyme or something have made it so that I racked it out of most of the fermentable sugar? Do you think that I could maybe add some sugar and re-pitch yeast?

I hope I didn't waste all that cider and could really use some advice from some folks with more experience in this matter. I was going to leave it in the carboys for a good while anyways if its not already a lost cause. Please help folks.

 

[Chris_The_Rogue]

What were your two yeasts?
Did you put the campden tablets in at the same time as your yeast? ( You said it was your first time using campden tablets.)

The pectin enzyme shouldn't cause any problems with fermentation.

You said it tastes like expensive apple juice? So you taste no alcohol and its very sweet?

If you end up re-pitching yeast i don't think you would need to add more sugar.

 

[SweetBaby_Lou]

The two yeasts were QA23 and EC-1118 and yes the campden and yeast were not too far apart. Could that have been my big mistake?

 

[smitty53]

It's possible that the Campden tablets killed much of your yeast, but not all of it. The usual timeline is to add your tablets (based on pH), wait 24 hours, then add yeast.

As a guideline, most fresh pressed cider has an OG somewhere between 1.040 and 1.060 (-ish, of course. Mine have been around 1.050). Some yeasts also ferment very slowly with little bubbling in the airlock - always take a gravity reading.

Just a shot in the dark here, but both yeasts should finish dry - around 1.000-ish. (Whoops - gave beer attenuation with the yeasts before. Cider is much higher.)

As Chris said, don't worry about the pectic enzyme.

If the gravity is still high, I'd re-pitch your yeast & nutrient and give it another go.

 

[Chris_The_Rogue]

Thats your problem, you killed your yeast. You cannot pitch yeast for 24 hours after adding campden.
Repitch your yeast and see what happens.

 

[WVMJ]

My first mistake was not to take an O.G. I have already racked into secondary fermentor since bubbling in airlock had been inactive for at least a week.

So did it ferment or not? EC1118 is very tough and doesnt foam up a lot, was your tasting sample very sweet or not, did you have bubbles? We have used QA23 and it is also a good fermentor so you might just want to get a hydrometer and see what your sg is now. You might want to try some GoFerm if you need to add some new yeasts to give them a good start. WVMJ

 

[100million]

So I tried my hand at fermenting some fresh pressed cider from a local orchard. I had 2 cleaned and sanitized five gallon buckets filled. The idea was to pitch 2 different yeasts for 2 different resulting ciders. This is my first attempt brewing cider without a boil opting for campden tablets instead. I also tried some pectic enzyme as well as yeast nutrient in each bucket.

My first mistake was not to take an O.G. I have already racked into secondary fermentor since bubbling in airlock had been inactive for at least a week.
It racked beautifully. I poured a small sample of each while racking and it is crystal clear resembling the dry ciders i enjoy. The problem is it tastes more like I made some expensive apple juice rather than a hard cider.

I am not sure what to do at this point. I have 2 carboys staring me in the face. Should I try pitching more yeast or could the pectic enzyme or something have made it so that I racked it out of most of the fermentable sugar? Do you think that I could maybe add some sugar and re-pitch yeast?

I hope I didn't waste all that cider and could really use some advice from some folks with more experience in this matter. I was going to leave it in the carboys for a good while anyways if its not already a lost cause. Please help folks.

even thou it said fresh pressed... Did u press them or did the then come in a orchard? did they have any preservatives in it?

 

[SweetBaby_Lou]

Unfortunately they both seemed to live and die in unison. Neither foamed up and bubbling stopped almost exactly the same time. It did not taste very sweet at all though so I wonder if pitching yeast alone would suffice. Would it even with go-ferm? I have never heard of that. Would adding some brown sugar ruin it any and then just going ahead and repitching the same yeast once again.

 

[Chris_The_Rogue]

A little extra sugar wont hurt anything, but most likely wont be needed.

 

[SweetBaby_Lou]

When I talked to the orchard owner I was told the buckets would be filled directly with fresh cider. I had to wait for the press day to get the buckets filled. I trust the guy.

 

[Bobbybob]

Most of the ciders I have done fermented down to around 1.005. If it is sweet it isn't done.

 

[Yooper]

Thats your problem, you killed your yeast. You cannot pitch yeast for 24 hours after adding campden.
Repitch your yeast and see what happens.

You can add yeast at the same time. It's not recommended, so that the campden can kill the other microbes in the must but wine yeast is amazingly tolerant of suliftes, and winemakers use them routinely in that amount and it doesn't affect fermentation.

What is needed here is a hydrometer reading. Even if one wasn't taken at the beginning, one taken now will tell the story.

 

[MarkKF]

You can add yeast at the same time. It's not recommended, so that the campden can kill the other microbes in the must but wine yeast is amazingly tolerant of suliftes, and winemakers use them routinely in that amount and it doesn't affect fermentation.

What is needed here is a hydrometer reading. Even if one wasn't taken at the beginning, one taken now will tell the story.

I'll also add that the EC-1118 with take it DRY! 1.000 or less.

What temp. has the cider been at since the yeast was pitched?

 

[WVMJ]

Its sort of funny, you hit the holy grail of a lot of cider makers on this list who want to have their ciders taste like apple juice instead of like fermented apple juice like a white wine Euro style. You can add some oak to offset the apple flavors. You may just be lacking some tannin, a little bit of tannin in your cider will give it a little astringency to balance out the alcohol and apple taste. You might want to be happy with this and bottle it, the flavors will change over time. WVMJ

 

[SweetBaby_Lou]

I'll also add that the EC-1118 with take it DRY! 1.000 or less.

What temp. has the cider been at since the yeast was pitched?

It is in a fairly dark corner and been held at 64-67 F. I am going to take a hydrometer reading of both and try giving them a repitch I am thinking.

 

[SweetBaby_Lou]

Its sort of funny, you hit the holy grail of a lot of cider makers on this list who want to have their ciders taste like apple juice instead of like fermented apple juice like a white wine Euro style. You can add some oak to offset the apple flavors. You may just be lacking some tannin, a little bit of tannin in your cider will give it a little astringency to balance out the alcohol and apple taste. You might want to be happy with this and bottle it, the flavors will change over time. WVMJ

I am generally not a fan of sweet things so I tend to the drier side of things. The hydrometer reading should provide some info I need. I keep asking about adding sugar to help kick start fermentation because when I did try both ciders they did NOT taste sweet at all really. If it had tasted either boozy or sweet my mind would have jumped to other conclusions I think. Maybe because I didnt spice this batch up with anything that it taste TOO much like apples and that is throwing me off.

 

[SweetBaby_Lou]

So it looks like they BOTH measured 0.994 when I took a hydrometer reading. There was not a noticeable difference in taste really either. Not very sweet either. Thinking about repitching yeast. Thoughts? Add nutrient as well? Sugar?

 

[MarkKF]

So it looks like they BOTH measured 0.994 when I took a hydrometer reading. There was not a noticeable difference in taste really either. Not very sweet either. Thinking about repitching yeast. Thoughts? Add nutrient as well? Sugar?

If it's 0.994 why would you pitch more yeast? There is no sugar left for the yeast to consume. Rack it and let it sit. If you want sweetness and flavor you need to rethink your yeast next time. English Ale or Cider yeast.

 

[Yooper]

So it looks like they BOTH measured 0.994 when I took a hydrometer reading. There was not a noticeable difference in taste really either. Not very sweet either. Thinking about repitching yeast. Thoughts? Add nutrient as well? Sugar?

The cider is done. It has 0 residual sugar at this point, and is finished fermenting. You can let it sit, and clear, and then bottle. But for now, it's best to leave it alone in a dark place.

 

[BrotherBock]

So it looks like they BOTH measured 0.994 when I took a hydrometer reading. There was not a noticeable difference in taste really either. Not very sweet either. Thinking about repitching yeast. Thoughts? Add nutrient as well? Sugar?

Dear God no, don't mess with a good thing. It's done fermenting and is nice and dry. Adding yeast will do nothing for you at this point. Let it age or bottle it.

 

[SweetBaby_Lou]

Well alright then. Thank you everyone for your help and advice and being so prompt.

I guess one more question. Has anyone had success in adding priming sugar to carbonate cider. Would maybe like to change up some of it before or as I bottle it so I don't wind up with 10 gal or so of practically the same stuff.

 

[LeBreton]

Priming a dry cider for carbonation is very easy.

Here's a quick rundown (it's for beer, but a dry cider is the same process)
http://www.howtobrew.com/section1/chapter1-3.html

 

[WVMJ]

Your cider tastes to good so you want to change it If its not alcoholic enough add some everclear to dry it out some more. If its not tannic enough add some oak to age one. You might have some apples in there that are higher in sorbates making it taste sweeter than the hydrometer tells you it is, if so then good job. It really sounds like you are trying to screw up a good cider by not really knowing what you want and trying to turn it into something it doesnt want to be. WVMJ