Chlorine or plastic taste in brew using RO and additions

[Shwagger]

A second brew has a chlorine or new plastic taste in it. Can't figure it out. Here's what I know to help:

Bottled beer, no beer tap line
RO water with additions using brun water
Temp controlled fermentation
One a stout, one a smash
No changes in cleaning, sanitation etc
Same brew process

I have a feeling it's cacl prills. They kind of smell like the taste.

I can post the grain and mineral schedule when I get home.

Appreciate any help

 

[flars]

First time using Bru'n Water and using additions to the mash and sparge? Where does your RO water come from? A poorly maintained store dispenser may be giving you treated municipal water.

 

[Shwagger]

I've used it for a while now.

The ro dispenser could be crap, don't really know. Comes from the supermarket machine

 

[Shwagger]

Ca 46
MG 7
Na 25
SO 55
Cl 34
Bic 111

2 Row Pale 12.0
Dark Choc 1.5
60L 1.0
Flaked barley 1.0
Black Patent 0.25

Dont have the minerals for the SMaSH anymore, but that is the stout

 

[dmtaylor]

Are you fermenting in plastic? What kind of hoses are you using for moving the beer from one container to the next and for bottling? When brand-new, these equipments can leach a bit of chlorine flavors. Maybe they just need a good soaking in plain water to leach out some of that stuff.

 

[jcav]

Shwagger, I also use R/O water from the supermarket and fill up five, 5 gallon jugs the day before brew day. I have used a few different machines over the years at different locations. Walmart, Publix, and the stand alone machines outside some drug store chains. I noticed that the machines at Publix have the date the machine was last checked and serviced scrolling on the display, before you put the money into it to select what quantity you want dispensed. The others will have it on a sticker on top of the machine. It's possible the machine you used hasn't been serviced in a while. If I see that the machine has been serviced recently I will use it. If it has been over three weeks I can go to the other machines that are within a mile of each other to get a recently serviced machine. Just trying to rule out why you are getting this flavor with R/O water since your process is exactly the same as before. Sounds to me like the machine filters are old or clogged and need changing. The charcoal one could easily be spent and they didn't change it or the other ones and the membrane as well..... I would try a different location with a recent service date on it and hopefully that will fix the issue. Best Of Luck!

John

 

[Shwagger]

Are you fermenting in plastic? What kind of hoses are you using for moving the beer from one container to the next and for bottling? When brand-new, these equipments can leach a bit of chlorine flavors. Maybe they just need a good soaking in plain water to leach out some of that stuff.

Yes to plastic and none of my gear is new and is cleaned well. And it's not every beer. Only these 2 out 10

 

[dmtaylor]

Hmm.... two possibilities, then, from what I can tell....

1) Any suckage of StarSan into the beer, like airlock liquid?

2) Possible contamination by wild beasts.

I'd recommend you have a local judge or beer expert taste the beer as well. This could help you to really nail it down to one or two things. It's extremely difficult to diagnose this without tasting it for myself.

 

[Shwagger]

Starsan is a possibility. I use it freely.

I'll have to locate a judge at the local club

 

[bitteritdown]

Most likely chlorophenols from chlorinated tap water. Not being in every brew points to a RO machine whose filter isn't being maintained.

Don't be afraid to use a campden tablet even on the RO water. For chlorinate tap water the dosage is 1 tablet treats 20 gallons, cut into quarters to treat 5 gallons, more doesn't necessarily hurt but 1 tablet per gallon is sanitizing strength and could cause sulfur smells/off gassing in the beer.

Can you smell the chlorine/chloramines in the RO water? Taste the RO water, what does it taste like?

http://howtobrew.com/book/section-4/is-my-beer-ruined/common-off-flavors
https://www.beeradvocate.com/community/threads/plastic-smell-taste.83129/
https://lifefermented.wordpress.com/2013/05/19/brew-tips-chlorine-removal-with-campden-tablets/
https://www.beeradvocate.com/commun...ablet-usage-for-water-with-chloramines.25421/

 

[Drk93TT]

My experience is on sanitation issues. i.e. sanitized but not clean enough... dirty (enough) ball valve...hose.. etc. in the cold side process

You can try campden in next batch and see what happens.. that and clean everything cold side.

 

[Shwagger]

My experience is on sanitation issues. i.e. sanitized but not clean enough... dirty (enough) ball valve...hose.. etc. in the cold side process

You can try campden in next batch and see what happens.. that and clean everything cold side.

Giving off plastic taste? I'd think infection over plastic. Never had an infection, I'm pretty liberal with the star san

 

[Radboud]

You could buy a TDS meter to test your water source. I have this one and see people recommend it here on HBT.

 

[Shwagger]

I honestly have faith in that machine I use for RO. It has the date slit was serviced scrolling on the screen. But it is possible it was serviced wrong. That being said, there's another 2 on the same intersection I'll try for a while, of my problem arises again, I'll have a good idea that it's not the water.

 

[Drk93TT]

Giving off plastic taste? I'd think infection over plastic. Never had an infection, I'm pretty liberal with the star san

Yup. Been there done that unfortunately


Plastic can also be chloramine flavor. Hence the campden comment. That or RO (as you use) or carbon block filtered water.

 

[mabrungard]

I honestly have faith in that machine I use for RO. It has the date slit was serviced scrolling on the screen. But it is possible it was serviced wrong. That being said, there's another 2 on the same intersection I'll try for a while, of my problem arises again, I'll have a good idea that it's not the water.

Unfortunately, a service message on a screen just means that someone came by and confirmed that the machine was still running and not leaking. As recommended above, getting your own TDS meter is the ONLY way you can know if the water produced by ANY machine (yours or a retail location) is at the expected purity. The $20 spent on the meter is well worth it.

If you use no chlorine compounds for sanitation in any of your processes, the water is the most likely source of plasticy, mediciny taste or aroma in beer.

 

[Shwagger]

What's the recommended way to test this machine? Pay for a gallon and run the test? Then fill my 5 gallon jugs?

I'd do it just to see the look on people's faces when i do that lol.

 

[mabrungard]

What's the recommended way to test this machine? Pay for a gallon and run the test?

Yep. And if the TDS value is much more than about 25 to 30 ppm, complain to the store and get your money back. That's what gets the operator to maintain their machine.

 

[LKABrewer]

Also, make sure to remove chlorine from any water used for rinsing and/or sanitizing. I have tasted beer made with RO water that got a bandaid taste just from using chlorinated water in the starsan.

 

[chris000]

Also, make sure to remove chlorine from any water used for rinsing and/or sanitizing. I have tasted beer made with RO water that got a bandaid taste just from using chlorinated water in the starsan.

Possible IF you have half a litre of sanitizer in the beer - but isn't there something else wrong with that?

 

[chris000]

...
Don't be afraid to use a campden tablet even on the RO water. For chlorinate tap water the dosage is 1 tablet treats 20 gallons, cut into quarters to treat 5 gallons, more doesn't necessarily hurt
...

Something on the bisufite; yes it works, but keep in mind to "declare" it when you give it to someone. It can result in (real) allergic reactions and those who are allergic might not think about it, since it is typically not associated with (commercial) beer.

 

[mabrungard]

Something on the bisufite; yes it works, but keep in mind to "declare" it when you give it to someone. It can result in (real) allergic reactions and those who are allergic might not think about it, since it is typically not associated with (commercial) beer.

Fortunately, the sulfite imparted to wort from metabisulfite dosing is fully decomposed when the wort is boiled. There is no need to declare sulfites in beer, unless they were added at some point following the boil.

 

[chris000]

Fortunately, the sulfite imparted to wort from metabisulfite dosing is fully decomposed when the wort is boiled. There is no need to declare sulfites in beer, unless they were added at some point following the boil.

I did not know that.
And I'm getting excited about it, because as per another thread, I'm looking for a "good & cheap" catalytic carbon filter and struggle with manufactures/vendors who are in that business, but never heard of characterizing catalytic filters by something like a peroxide number...
some of my friends actually is allergic to bisufite. So please don't get my suspicion wrong here when I ask, but would you have a link to a paper (or someone else can confirm)?

 

[Shwagger]

Update

I brewed am esb with a new water source, ro from a different machine and I used campden just in case. Well, has the same taste as before. I'm eliminating water as the culprit here. Unless I am just really unlucky.

Brewing tomorrow and will eliminate one thing and see what happens in a month or so.

 

[flars]

Update

I brewed am esb with a new water source, ro from a different machine and I used campden just in case. Well, has the same taste as before. I'm eliminating water as the culprit here. Unless I am just really unlucky.

Brewing tomorrow and will eliminate one thing and see what happens in a month or so.

What are you brewing tomorrow? What yeast will you be using and what will the planned pitch rate, and fermentation temperature be?

Every other source of an off flavor seems to have been addressed except yeast, fermentation temperature, and pitch rate.

 

[Shwagger]

What are you brewing tomorrow? What yeast will you be using and what will the planned pitch rate, and fermentation temperature be?

Every other source of an off flavor seems to have been addressed except yeast, fermentation temperature, and pitch rate.

Cerveza with wlp940 that's in a 1 gallon starter now. Wort will be 53 when I pitch .

 

[flars]

Cerveza with wlp940 that's in a 1 gallon starter now. Wort will be 53 when I pitch .

I definitely do not understand everything about yeast so this may be nothing. The inoculation rate with 1 pack of yeast seems very low for the volume of the starter. Taste the wort from this starter to see if the same off flavor is noticed. Might not taste great but just check for the off flavor.