Cheap compact wort pump

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augiedoggy said:
You should pull yours apart and share pictures and end all this if your so sure is stainless steel?
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If you had actually been paying attention, you would know that I never said mine or any of the magnets were stainless. What I did was question if it was possible and could be the reason that US Solar claims their pump is food safe. It was your misguided remarks that led this thread off on a tangent.

From Carpenter Technical Article:
Ferritic Stainless Steels
Ferritic stainless steels are ferromagnetic and have been used as soft magnetic components such as solenoid cores and pole pieces. Although their magnetic properties are not generally as good as conventional soft magnetic alloys, they are successfully used for magnetic components which must withstand corrosive environments. As such, they offer a cost-effective alternative to plated iron and silicon-iron components. In addition, the relatively high electrical resistivity of ferritic stainless steels has resulted in superior AC performance.
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JustLooking said:
Congratulations on the purchase. My (highly magnetic) inferior Cutco knives have been mishandled for almost 20 years and show no signs of rust or corrosion. Guess I’m just lucky, but if your knives are rusting with normal use, you might want to get your money back.
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Of course, if your Cutco knife ever does rust you can send it back for free repair or replacement. Forever. So if you leave it to your kids...and they leave it to their kids...and it rusts, or needs resharpening or whatever...they can send it in and Cutco will repair it or replace it for free. Well, you (or your Grand kids) do have to pay shipping.

Sorry, off topic, I know, but I couldn't resist.

Disclosure - I work for Cutco.
 
:off:

jcoxen said:
Sorry, off topic, I know, but I couldn't resist. Disclosure - I work for Cutco.
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Doing the math and it's actually been over 25 years since one of our daughters friends had a summer job selling Cutco to raise money for college. Never would have thought we'd still be using them after all these years. Keep meaning to send some back for resharpening, but they're still doing the job just fine.

Hey, I broke the tip off of one using it as a screwdriver. Can I get it replaced? :D
 
JustLooking said:
If you had actually been paying attention, you would know that I never said mine or any of the magnets were stainless. What I did was question if it was possible and could be the reason that US Solar claims their pump is food safe. It was your misguided remarks that led this thread off on a tangent.

From Carpenter Technical Article:
Click to expand...

Well I guess you didnt pay much attention to me either since I never said anything about buying a cutco brand knife... I actually bought a Zwiling by J.A. Henckels knife because its what the girlfriend wanted and she bought me a stainless conical so I wasnt going to argue. no need to be so argumentative, Are you using this forum to blow off steam or something?

from you posted pictures you pumps are the same exact pump as mine...And man made hard ferrite magnets like the ones these pumps use dont usually rust so I wouldnt expect that one to... but the real question here is how food safe are they?
There isnt much info on this on the web but here is a link to the type of magnets used in these pumps. As a matter of fact there doesnt appear to be any food grade ferrite magnets? Imagine that, just like the actual manufacturer (http://www.dgshenpeng.com/en_asp/productshow.asp?id=808) stated.

I have the model p4580 which apparently is discontinued already but the link I posted is of an identical replacement as far as I can tell. notice the swirl mark in the company logo... I'm curious if this is still molded into the ones distributed by us solar or if its been removed?
Oh look they make the tan ones which are identical to the ones I use besides the fact that I bought the ones with threaded connections.... notice those are listed as FDA approved food pumps?(mine are the model p38)
http://www.dgshenpeng.com/en_asp/productshow.asp?id=810

So just to recap... It sure appears the same manufacturer makes the black ussolar and generic branded pumps that makes the tan ones and they state the tan one as being food grade and the black one as not being food grade. and you can see upon disassembly that the black one is meant for things like water or kerosene and the tan one was developed to be foodsafe I own both and have disassembled both. .. Can I prove this without a doubt? not without more work than its worth but you can look at the research and make your own decision. shenpeng is the oem manufacturer for a lot of pumps sold under a lot of different names and some of the pumps they make are not marketed on thier site under thier own name they customize to the customers requests (As they likely did with great brews pumps that have the coated food grade magnet/impeller assy).

For reference this is the type of magnet in the black pumps...
http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/C8-magnet_221056955.html?s=p
 
augiedoggy said:
Well I guess you didnt pay much attention to me either since I never said anything about buying a cutco brand knife... I actually bought a Zwiling by J.A. Henckels knife so go ahead and flame away some more since you are apparently using this forum and taking this discussion off course to blow off steam?
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JustLooking said:
Congratulations on the purchase. My (highly magnetic) inferior Cutco knives have been mishandled for almost 20 years and show no signs of rust or corrosion. Guess I’m just lucky, but if your knives are rusting with normal use, you might want to get your money back.
Click to expand...

You really should get that reading comprehension thing looked into. :D
 
JustLooking said:
:off:


Doing the math and it's actually been over 25 years since one of our daughters friends had a summer job selling Cutco to raise money for college. Never would have thought we'd still be using them after all these years. Keep meaning to send some back for resharpening, but they're still doing the job just fine.

Hey, I broke the tip off of one using it as a screwdriver. Can I get it replaced? :D
Click to expand...

Well, a knife is not a screwdriver so I wouldn't call that normal usage. However, I'm in IT not Customer Service so I don't know exactly where that particular line is drawn. My suggestion would be to either call the 800 number and ask or send it in for repair and see what they say.
 
I have two of those SS head ones. Got them for $40 ea from one of the ebay vendors a year ago I believe. You're paying for the SS head vs plastic. Is it worth it? Probably not unless you change a lot of fittings and break the threads.
 
Got a link to amazon? A quick search turned up only the ones with plastic head and stainless connections.

I was thinking I could silver solder TC or Camlock fittings directly on the head and mount it to my electric kettle and/or mash tun ball valve. It would make priming much easier/faster with little to no line loss.
 
I use the plastic ones with stainless fittings from ussolar pumps in my brewery. It's just enough for my 25' HERMS coil. I'm thinking of upgrading that pump to their 6gpm ss pump just to speed up my step times. But all in all the 3gpm pumps have proved to be plenty for all my brewing purposes.
 
wbarber69 said:
I use the plastic ones with stainless fittings from ussolar pumps in my brewery. It's just enough for my 25' HERMS coil. I'm thinking of upgrading that pump to their 6gpm ss pump just to speed up my step times. But all in all the 3gpm pumps have proved to be plenty for all my brewing purposes.
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FYI you can buy both the same black ones you have as well as the food grade tan ones for about half what ussolar marks them up to after buying them from the same manufacturer and marking them up by buying them from ebay or amazon..

"great brew" is the only reseller I know of who actually paid extra to have the black topsflo/ussolar style ones they buy speced with food grade coated magnets... Stainless or brass threads dont mean anything if you permanently mount camlock fitting to them as most do?

Its ironic that people here will pay extra for a stainless head only to have an uncoated magnet and plastic coated inner coil coated motor body making the stainless head completely cosmetic and silly because the wort still passes in direct contact with both the magnet and the plastic body and the pump itself is still plastic including the pump blades that power it.

The 24v "P38" tan food grade pumps are the smartest option and are only $20 shipped... unless you buy them from us solar in which case they are at least double that after markup . But hey they have "US" in the name so that means they are worth it right?
 
Ussolarpumps has the td-5 with speed control. That's what I use most. I don't know if anyone else is selling anything similar. The main reason I use them over cheaper options is the support. They are located inside the U.S. and will fix or replace anything under warranty. Ask me how I know. Cheaper would be nice but I tend to be hard on my equipment and I like knowing my staff ant gonna crap out on me and leave me hanging.
 
wbarber69 said:
Ussolarpumps has the td-5 with speed control. That's what I use most. I don't know if anyone else is selling anything similar. The main reason I use them over cheaper options is the support. They are located inside the U.S. and will fix or replace anything under warranty. Ask me how I know. Cheaper would be nice but I tend to be hard on my equipment and I like knowing my staff ant gonna crap out on me and leave me hanging.
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Yes topsflo also buys and distributes the same td5 from chine...
when it comes to something being twice the price or higher for "sopport" I'm not sure I get the logic... you could buy two if you somehow screw up the pump by dryfiring or not prefiltering and still be ahead of the game...
I have found nothing to suggest us solar is anything more than a middleman located in the states... not a pump manufacturer as many would like to believe. anyone with a couple hundred bucks can buy these things in bulk , mark them up and do the same thing? If they do more than this I would like to hear about it? do they spec their own product to their own specs like walmart? so far I have seen no evidence of this.

BTW here is the manufactuers website its interesting that they stste they are good for hot wort use in brewing but dont actually reference them as foodgrade anywhere?
in any case the manufactuer states they are 20l per minute which leads me to believe its the same pump as the all plastic ones so the stainless head would only provide additional durability if its dropped at the cost of 3-4 plastic pumps... Worth it? To some maybe.

http://www.facesource.net/p/232004_Topsflo-Td5-Solar-DC.htm
 
The topsflo pumps have been used for years without any issues. I see you found a product sheet for the TD-5 but I still don't see anyone else who sells them individually. I went with this option because it was slightly cheaper than March pump and I didn't want to add another 110 line to my control panel. The all stainless head allows me to pump boiling wort through it for short periods of time without damage (even though the pump kicks off at about boiling temp) while I prepare my whirlpool from r chilling. Plus it's super quiet and lightweight enough that I can hang it off the end of a valve anywhere in my setup without worrying about shearing off a joint. If you can find me a place that sells the TD-5 for half price I'll gladly buy 2 of them as backups.
 
I contacted the seller on the one in the link I posted. Apparently it is the topsflow td-5 with a custom SS head. No mention of coated magnets though. I just asked.

The SS head is nice because I can weld/solder SS fittings on and directly couple it into my system and eliminate threads. Other than that I'm not sure that it's worth the $100, for just $30-$40 more I can get a chugger with SS head.
 
I should try to explain things a bit better as I coming off as being argumentative.... Its just frustrating seeing people make the same assumptions over and over in the same thread without reading enough of it.

These pumps (both the $25 all plastic and $100+ stainless head version ) are brush less centrifugal pumps where the there is no real "pump head" mounted to a motor but rather a large uncoated (non food grade) magnet that sits inside a plastic coated motor coil. (This is in the plastic pump body that both pumps share). The liquid that's being pumped is being used for lubrication and comes in direct contact with both the magnet and the plastic lined pump coil... so this makes the stainless head only practical in the reasoning that if its not mounted and dropped it will be more durable and less likely to crack.... when you take into consideration that you literally have to drop and break 4 or more of the all plastic versions to make the stainless headed one a practical choice the whole thing seems pretty silly. The same goes for paying double for "support?" (Its a cheap pond /aquarium style pump people) when you could just buy a second pump as a backup and still be ahead.
 
lapoltba said:
Got a link to amazon? A quick search turned up only the ones with plastic head and stainless connections.

I was thinking I could silver solder TC or Camlock fittings directly on the head and mount it to my electric kettle and/or mash tun ball valve. It would make priming much easier/faster with little to no line loss.
Click to expand...
BTW most people using these including myself just mount cam locks directly to the pumps and connect them directly to the base of the kettles... stainless is not needed for this. The pumps are rated for boiling temp liquids. Although these topsflo style pumps don't work so well to prime mounted this way.. the tan pumps with the 90 degree exit are much easier to prime and use this way as others have already pointed out.
The tan ones Do have coated magnets unlike the topsflo style ones (I have both although my topsflo style one appears to be manufactured by another company)
 
augiedoggy said:
These pumps (both the $25 all plastic and $100+ stainless head version ) are brush less centrifugal pumps where the there is no real "pump head" mounted to a motor but rather a large uncoated (non food grade) magnet that sits inside a plastic coated motor coil. (This is in the plastic pump body that both pumps share).
Click to expand...

Yep, been thinking that for quite some time, but never posted it. Hope someone saves a few dollars because of this post.
 
I've used both the black topsflo knockoff and the little tan one. They are both kind of a pain.

The black one is much more powerful and can pump through a RIMS tube no issue. However there's the un-coated magnet issue and its made of abs (not food grade). Its also a little more difficult to prime, but if you mount it upside down directly on the output its better. This pump would be good for HLT transfers.

The power on the little tan one isn't great. But its food grade and like augie said its easy to mount and prime. I've had issues trying to pump through a RIMS tube, but i haven't worked too hard shortening the lines to make it easier.

All said and done it may be worth it to just buy the chugger for 140.... However it seems like they are really loud. These little 12v's are whisper quiet...
 
augiedoggy said:
"great brew" is the only reseller I know of who actually paid extra to have the black topsflo/ussolar style ones they buy speced with food grade coated magnets...
Click to expand...

Is this the one that's coated? http://greatbreweh.com/Beer_Pump.html

The pictures pictures show what looks to be the same magnet (uncoated) as the Chinese knockoffs. And also states the magnet is just ceramic ferrite, same is the Chinese ones.
 
The coating really doesn't matter. You're going to boil everything anyway.
 
wbarber69 said:
The coating really doesn't matter. You're going to boil everything anyway.
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:confused: Last time I checked heavy minerals dissolved off a ferrite magnet or chemicals leeched from plastics that are not tested to be food safe don't just boil away...

It should be noted again that these pumps are likely OK for pumping wort without any real negative impacts but the point remains that's they were never actually tested for food use (especially hot food use where some normally foodsafe plastics have been known to leech) we just don't know! The abs plastic used in these pumps is often foonsafe at temps up to 170 and sometimes over that if formulated that way.
The fact that the magnets are not coated are a true indication of this because all other food safe pumps of this type DO have coated magnets.

Regardless my main point is that the stainless "pumpheads" on these ts5/td5 plastic pumps does not isolate the beer from coming in direct contact with the plastic in the pump or the magnet. If you mount your pumps they are for all practical purposes a waste of money.

I have to laugh because people here often don't think twice about going overboard with redundant safety features on an electric brew setup or heavier wiring than they need because its "safer" yet some of them don't think twice about using a utility pump designed to pump oil or kerosene just because the possible negative effects arent instant or many not even be noticed.
 
Just a heads up the 24volt versions of the tan pumps are a dollar or two more and pump just as strong as the black topsfo ones... This is what I upgraded to and recommend.
 
Mojzis said:
Is this the one that's coated? http://greatbreweh.com/Beer_Pump.html

The pictures pictures show what looks to be the same magnet (uncoated) as the Chinese knockoffs. And also states the magnet is just ceramic ferrite, same is the Chinese ones.
Click to expand...

They are all the Chinese pumps.... The Chinese designed these so they are not knockoffs... Great brew states right on that site you linked that the magnets are coated to be foodsafe.... I also remember the thread on another forum were great brew was rcalled out on the non food grade magnets when they first started selling these pumps according to that thread they went to to manufacturer and had them coat the magnets for the ones greatbrew speed to order... I agree there doesn't appear to be a coating from the video... Maybe a clear coat of some sort?

BTW those are the $25 pumps only with brass threads, molded with different ppe foodgrade plastic instead of the abs normally used and and a coated magnet We don't really know which models are which and there seems to be a lot of conflicting info, even from the manufacturer as members here have contacted them and get different answers as to which pumps are and aren't foodsafe.

I do know my black topflo style pump is made of ABS plastic and not the food grade ppe plastic that greatbrewehs pumps are made of... My foodgrade tan pumps are made of this PPE material and it is noticeably harder and has a different looking texture than regular abs plastic.

I no longer use mine either but it worked well minus the priming issues when mounted directly to kettles.
 
augiedoggy said:
Just a heads up the 24volt versions of the tan pumps are a dollar or two more and pump just as strong as the black topsfo ones... This is what I upgraded to and recommend.
Click to expand...

I wish I knew that before I put a 12v supply in the panel.

augiedoggy said:
They are all the Chinese pumps.... The Chinese designed these so they are not knockoffs...
Click to expand...

I understand this but its makes its easier to clarify his way.

augiedoggy said:
Great brew states right on that site you linked that the magnets are coated to be foodsafe.... I also remember the thread on another forum were great brew was rcalled out on the non food grade magnets when they first started selling these pumps according to that thread they went to to manufacturer and had them coat the magnets for the ones greatbrew speed to order... I agree there doesn't appear to be a coating from the video... Maybe a clear coat of some sort?
Click to expand...

Or its an old video. Still he doesn't state what is the coating, which would make me wary especially for the price.
 
I've started a discussion with the guy I deal with over at ussolarpumps. I'll see what they think about all this. I'm pretty sure all the topsflo plumps use ppe instead of abs because abs would fall apart at high temps.
 
wbarber69 said:
I've started a discussion with the guy I deal with over at ussolarpumps. I'll see what they think about all this. I'm pretty sure all the topsflo plumps use ppe instead of abs because abs would fall apart at high temps.
Click to expand...

It doesn't fall apart... My black Pump has "abs" stamped right in the pump head but its not a topsflo or us solar branded pump... My "p38" style tan pumps are from the same supplier as us solar uses though... The ppe plastic has a hardened feel and an almost marbled faded color to the surface of the plastic. It also cracks easily when dropped.
 
Still fighting the good fight, huh Augie :) I like how these pump threads re-invigorate after a few weeks/months and the same debates come up.

For the record, my old ABS pump (Black Topsflow-style $22 on Ebay) held up well after 5-6 brews. I have recently replaced it with the tan center inlet due to wanting to whirlpool, and not trusting ABS at boiling temps (due to potential leaching of chemicals, physically the pump was great even at 207 degree wort- still flowed around 2GPM). I'll probably still use the black one for fly sparging if I get tired of batch sparging (non-acidic water and temps around 175 or lower)
 
Mojzis said:
Or its an old video. Still he doesn't state what is the coating, which would make me wary especially for the price.
Click to expand...

There's a thread around somewhere where the owner of Great BrewEH actually states what the magnet is coated in. Sounded like a silicon-based blend with some other food-grade material - also sounded like they just dipped the magnet in so the layer is clear and difficult to see.

Of course they could be blowing smoke up our butts and just reselling the $20 pump for $70, but I guess that's up to you to determine.
 
If you look on the Topsflo website, they have a SS "head" pump listed there. I contacted them for more info and it is not just the "head" that is SS. I am quoting that because someone had commented about mag drive pumps not having a head in the classic sense, but I figured we all understood what was meant by the term.

Anyway. In the literature I was sent it clearly shows that the entire wetted surface inside the pump is SS with the exception of the magnet and impeller. The impeller is PPS (poly-phenylene sulfide) which is high temperature and can be food safe. I still do not know if the magnet is or can be coated. I'm not exactly comfortable with the possibility of leaching lead or other contaminants out of the magnet.

I would upload the PDF catalog that they sent but it is too large. Let me know if anyone would like me to email or host it somewhere.
 
Whats the inner chamber walls that surround the magnet coil made of? This is what I'm assuming is also plastic and the wort enters this area to be used as lubricant.. it doesn't make sense to me that they would make this part of the pump out of some sort of non metallic metal and still make the lower outer pump body of plastic...
 
Falcon3 said:
Still fighting the good fight, huh Augie :) I like how these pump threads re-invigorate after a few weeks/months and the same debates come up.

For the record, my old ABS pump (Black Topsflow-style $22 on Ebay) held up well after 5-6 brews. I have recently replaced it with the tan center inlet due to wanting to whirlpool, and not trusting ABS at boiling temps (due to potential leaching of chemicals, physically the pump was great even at 207 degree wort- still flowed around 2GPM). I'll probably still use the black one for fly sparging if I get tired of batch sparging (non-acidic water and temps around 175 or lower)
Click to expand...
Everyone seems to only read maybe the first and last page of these threads and they miss a lot of the important details... someone should make a comparisio. Sticky... I only have three types of pumps myself to compare but I know others have to have more. :)
 

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