Can't decide on chiller...

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Which chiller?

  • Shirron plate chiller

  • 25ft CFC

  • 50ft IC with whirlpooling

  • Other

Results are only viewable after voting.
Captain_Bigelow

Captain_Bigelow

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I have been reading up and thinking about this all weekend and can't make up my mind. I need a new chiller and have picked out 3 options all will be about the same price and all have their pro's, con's.

Right now I just do 5 gallon batches and the current water temperature is 86f, so I will have to run a pre-chiller with whatever option I go for. Also I have a pump so can make any option work.

1. Shirron chiller
2. 25ft CFC chiller/ rubber hose casing (i.e. http://www.nybrewsupply.com/products/wort-chiller-counterflow.php).
3. 50ft IC with Jamil's recirculation arm for whirl-pooling (http://www.mrmalty.com/chiller.php)
 
I haven't used a shirron chiller or cfc chiller yet, but i'm a fan of the immersion chillers simply because they're easy to clean and you don't (really) have to worry about sanitation with them..

that alone is worth the "inefficiency" of using an ic to me.
 
IC all the way. Much simpler to use, clean and sanitize. No worries about clogs, either. And, in a race, the whirlpool method should win hands down, as it has the greatest surface area of all the options listed.
 
+1, and I like the ideas of cooling the entire wort mass at once and leaving cold break in the kettle.
 
W/ my IC, I whirlpool from the boil kettle output (bottom dump), so my wort is pretty clear when I transfer to primary. Stuff (hops,break) filters thru itself the same way grain filters thru itself in the mash tun (if you are a recirc'er like me) and I'd think this is the best way to get the cleanest wort into the fermenter. Although some folks think getting break into the fermenter makes for yeast nutrients. I dunno, but wanted as little trub as poss fo me.
 
Chillus Convolutus, thats a pretty funny name. My vote is for the IC, they are simple and effective. The advantage of the CFC or the plate chiller is you can rig them up on a stand with a pump and some hoses and try to standardize the process. At the end of the day to get the wort cool you need surface area and cold water, the immersion chiller has the most surface area so will work the best.

One thing about the immersion chiller, especially a 50 ft one, is it may not be fully submerged. I have a fat 20g megapot and even with 10 gallons of wort my immersion chiller is only a little only half submerged. I will likely sell it and buy 50ft of tubing and coil it wider so I can get more copper under the 'water' level to get better efficiency. Good luck with whatever you decide on.
 
I moved to the Shirron chiller after I moved to 10 gallon batches. My old small immersion chiller just could not handle chilling the 10 gallon batch. I have used it for about 7 batches so far I like it. I am about to receive my brew stand and plan to mount it to it. I like that it is compact as I have so much large and bulky equipment already.
 
One thing to add about IC's is that they are the most accurate, i.e., you can stop chilling once you get to the right temp. It can be hard a times not to overshoot with a CFC/Plate chiller.

Before you go with a plate, be really sure that you have some sort of prefilter and that you're okay with doing the maintenance.

I personally have a chillus convolutus because I think it's kind of a hybrid between an IC and plate; less maintenance than a plate, less worry about clogging, and it chills almost as good. Plus it's an external chiller that can be affixed to a stand, and is aesthetically pleasing.
 
I've used plate chiller, IC, IC with Whirlpool for 10 gallon batches. Plate chiller is easiest for me and I bag my whole leaf hops. If I didn't I would not use the plate. Best cold break however came from IC with Whirlpool.
 
Thanks everyone for your feedback. Some interesting results, I didn't expect such a large vote for the old trusty IC.

I actually had my eye on the Chillzilla/ Chillus Convolutus, but the $190 price tag put me off. If I can pick one up second hand for a fair price I will go that route. Otherwise I will pick up a larger IC and give Jamil's method a shot. If Jamil does it, it must be good right!
 
The difference is that the Chillus Convolutus has convoluted copper tubing, whereas the MAXIchiller is regular tubing. The convoluted tubing supposedly makes it more efficient.
 
Definitely a plate chiller. They are the most efficient. I backflush mine and pump hot PBW through it after every brew, but I already did this to clean the pump and hoses so it's no extra work. You can also sterilize it in the oven. Cold break in the fermenter is no big deal.
For lagers in the Summer I do 2 plate chillers in series. The first gets tap water and the second gets ice water pumped with a sump pump.
I have a thermometer on my output and valves on the wort pump and water, so I can dial in my temperature.
 
I used to use an IC and I found a CFC on ebay for $80 (obviously not as visually appealing as a Chillus Convolutus or similar) made out of heater hose and copper tubing. I love the CFC, especially since I have installed a 1/2" ball valve on my kettle. As soon as the flame goes out, I spin up a nice whirlpool, put the lid on it, wait a few minutes (3-5), open the kettle valve, and run clear 205-210˚ wort into a carboy at 65˚ every time. I've never had and issue with clogging or infections. To sanitize it, I syphon the StarSan solution out of my fermentor through the CFC into a plastic bucket and then back out of the bucket through the CFC at the end of the brew day. (All gravity; no pump)
 
The difference is that the Chillus Convolutus has convoluted copper tubing, whereas the MAXIchiller is regular tubing. The convoluted tubing supposedly makes it more efficient.
Click to expand...
From the Wayback machine PBS archive:
Other similar appearing copper chillers using "helical" finned inner tubing. Finned tubes are not nearly as efficient at heat transfer as a helical tube. The MAXI itself is a helix. Our inner tube is also helical.
Click to expand...
I realize helical and convoluted should be different things, but I wonder.
I remember when the Chillzilla came out with similar different sounding claims, so a buddy bought one. Turned out they were made by the same HVAC engineering place, I can't recall the name, with the same parts, just different in and out directions, plus the chillzilla had a male pipe thread on one end. We tested them side-by-side and didn't note any difference in the temp of the final wort with the same chilling water.
 
i've used all three (therminator, not shirron) and for me, the jamil-o-chiller wins hands down.
 
Not sure if I mentioned this, but a tube style CFC can be sanitized with a recirc in last 20 mins of the boil....kinda like an IC. It gives me a bit more peace of mind, I guess. I'd actually really like to get a plate chiller because of the small profile and cool factor, but the cleaning and sanitizing is always a deal breaker.

Also, I always thought it would be kind of a PITA to run sanitizer through a plate chiller beforehand. How do people do this? Use a funnel?
 
i first started using a CFC, but changed to the WIC to save on water, as i could chill the entire batch quickly, then switch over to a sump pump to recirc ice water to get to lager temps, or ale temps in the summer. i was then gifted a therminator, so i sold my WIC. i pumped into the therminator with a stainless T on the outlet which had a ball valve on one part and a therminator on the other. i could never get down below 80, even regulating the flow on the outlet of the therminator. so, i sold it, bought a brand new IC from B3, built a whirlpool arm, used it last weekend. got down to 80 quickly, then switched to the sump pump and got down to 63 degrees.

so, i go with what i know, and what i know works really really well for me.
 
also, as ScubaSteve alluded to, sanitizing a plate chiller or CFC has to be done somewhat blind. i know throwing my chiller in for 10 minutes (i start recircing then too) will sanitize it, with no surprises. it just works.
 
I built a CFC because I wanted to get right to pitching temps in a single pass, and I could chill as fast as I could drain the kettle. IC's seem like less to worry about, but you are still waiting 20 - 30 minutes to get down to pitching temps. I liked the idea of 10 minutes of draining and I'm already in the fermenter. I haven't used my CFC yet though. I've only had ice baths up until now.
 
Honestly, a 50' 1/2" Copper IC will chill a batch in about 15 minutes. You just have to stir....or whirlpool.

Seriously, I think they're way underrated. Kind of like the 'ol reliable of the chiller family....does what it's supposed to do, every time, with very little setup, and almost zero maintenance. I've had one in my garage collecting dust for a while, only because my current rig isn't set up for an IC....but I keep one as backup in case my more complicated cfc gives me issues.
 
You could go with a CFC and recirc. It doesn't HAVE to be an IC.

I use a CFC simply due to the fact that I built one. It's been working great and unless I happen to have another reason to buy a pump, I'll keep using it the way I have been.

But Jamil's brand of whirlpool chiller is a great idea IF you subscribe to the belief that chilling as fast as possible is the way to go. It makes sense that chilling the entire volume of wort below 140 as fast as possible is the way to go. However, I have never seen any numbers, or any taste comparison, that leads me to believe that there is any taste difference between chilling the entire wort below 140 in 5 minutes, and chilling it to 65, a bit at a time, in less than 15.

But if you have a pump, and either an IC or CFC, why not make a recirculating whirlpool chiller? It's certainly not going to make your beer any worse.

EDIT: oh, and if a few minutes isn't a big deal, then an IC is much easier to clean and maintain and you don't have to worry about clogs. And the cold break can more easily be left behind. Honestly, it's all good!
 
That is what I decided to do. I decided against the IC due to storage space constraints. I am in the process of making a CFC. I figured I will try that out and if it doesn't work good I will pick up a Chillzilla/ Chillus Convolutus.
 
Captain_Bigelow said:
That is what I decided to do. I decided against the IC due to storage space constraints. I am in the process of making a CFC. I figured I will try that out and if it doesn't work good I will pick up a Chillzilla/ Chillus Convolutus.
Click to expand...

It will work very well if you use larger copper tubing. ie 5/8" OD tubing. The 1/2" OD will also work, but the larger tubing will work better. The Chillus Convoluti (sp?) are great, but also pricey. I'd like to have one if my budget would permit. Someday I will probably buy one. What would be the plural of Chillus Convolutus anyway? Am I correct with the Convoluti? I'm thinking is would be the same as the plural of Lexus. ie many Lexi etc.:D
 
Anyone feel like a CFC decreases the hop performance, i.e. aroma? I thought I'd read this somewhere. It's the only reason I've not built a CFC yet.
 
Beavdowg said:
Anyone feel like a CFC decreases the hop performance, i.e. aroma? I thought I'd read this somewhere. It's the only reason I've not built a CFC yet.
Click to expand...

The basis of this refers to using a CFC as a single pass chiller. In that case, the wort remaining in the kettle is still near boiling and the volatile hop components are continuing to leave the wort. This can be mitigated by pumping the wort through the chiller and back to the BK in a continuous loop which is similar to using an IC. Supposedly, chilling the wort quickly to 140F or below minimizes the loss of these hop aromatics. So, it's not so much an issue with a CFC as it is with how it is used.
 
A benefit of using a CFC is that you can use a hopback right before you chill the wort, locking in the aromas in a closed system and by the time the wort exits, it will be below 100F and much less volatile. You can't really do this with an IC, but you could mimic it with whirlpool or "burst" hops.
 
50' Dual Coil IC, hands down. I can chill 5 gals of wort down to 74 F. in 8 minutes.
Here is a picture of the one I built
542-camera-20100728-161343.jpg
 
ScubaSteve said:
Also, I always thought it would be kind of a PITA to run sanitizer through a plate chiller beforehand. How do people do this? Use a funnel?
Click to expand...

I've never put any sanitizer in my plate chiller (Therminator). Never even thought of it until now, actually. I do what everyone else does, run boiling wort through it for the last 15 minutes of a boil. Requires a pump in your system.
 
Thanks, It still amazes me how fast it works. We did a club brew a few weeks ago and I brought this monster for people to use. It had everyone running around like chickens with their heads cut off because they were used to having more time to get ready to transfer, and pitch. One important # is the time it takes to get from 212 to under 140, this thing gets it there in 1 1/2 to 2 minutes. Freakin awesome.
 
Yep, my 50' IC is pretty similar, though I'm planning on running the 2 25' coils in parallel rather than in series, to see if there's any performance boost there.
 
As an update on my quest to find the best chiller for my needs... I made a 25ft CFC and got good results with my first test run. I also had Jeff at NY Brew Supply custom make me a 50ft IC with a 1/2" whirlpooling tube (aka Mr Malty's design). It was actually cheaper to have Jeff make it, than for me to make myself with the current cost of copper in my area.

I intend to boil up some batches of water next weekend and post my findings (may be a video??) of all the different methods and times to chill. I figure I will do the 25ft CFC, my existing 25ft 3/8" IC, the new 50ft 1/2" IC and then the 50ft 1/2"IC using the whirlpooling method/ pump.
 
Prosper,
I thought about doing them in parallel. So I did as much research as I could. As one can expect, not much out there. But, many others smarter than me suggested that liquids follow the path of least resistance. Possibly, not flowing through one of the coils at an optimum rate. Also, the water that initially comes out of my chiller is at near boiling, so I don't think there is any great % gain that can be done to improve that heat transfer at the higher temps. (as I had mentioned it goes from 212 to < 140 f in 1 - 2 minutes.)
The difficulty with any cooling system comes when the temp of the liquid to be cooled nears the temp of the liquid doing the cooling. Here is where I think a parallel coil might shine. The greater the dif in temps the better.
It is crazy that it takes almost 3 times longer to go from 140 to 70's F than it does from 212 to 140 f.
When you get yours done can you break down the times for me? I can always seperate my coils and reconfigure them in parallel if yours shows significant performances.
Thanks
 
I agree, I expect the performance difference to be made at the lower end of the temperature range. As to flow rates - my 3/4" garden hose can supply more water than either one of the parallel loops can handle, so I don't think there'll be much problem getting coolant to flow relatively evenly through both coils.
 
Sanspareil said:
50' Dual Coil IC, hands down. I can chill 5 gals of wort down to 74 F. in 8 minutes.
Here is a picture of the one I built
542-camera-20100728-161343.jpg
Click to expand...

This is a great design, as you usually can't immerse all the coils in a 50' IC when doing a 5 gal batch. Clean build, great work!:mug:
 

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