Can't decide B3 or Brew Magic
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SankePankey
Well-Known Member
JP- If you'd like to open a Morebeer branch in the Hudson Valley, send me a PM and we'll chat ... Otherwise, why would you to razz a newbie for his enthusiasm? A newbie is just someone who hasn't yet spent their life savings at Morebeer. What's with the members only tude, bro.
If anyone else want to read my review, here it is:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/br...-not-brew-magic-vs-b3-but-comparisons-163149/
As I mentioned on the thread, I am getting nothing for it (other than maybe a group buy deal). I just have a little too much time on my hands due to the economy
, I type faster than I think, and I wanted to be thorough for another person who wants to buy one too, so as to help him with his purchase. The brewmation guy is just a DIY'er who decided to sell his rigs. Cheers for the underdog.
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Your enthusiasm is fine but, given you have not brewn on the system it's just a little unfounded.
SankePankey
Well-Known Member
No, not shipped. Neither of the prices I mentioned were for shipped. And, his semi-auto system is $3650 which is what every other rig's definition of 'fully' automated is. The full auto is just a step further. I thought the price was reasonable too, compared to DIY'ing a full electric rig (if you have to source a welder as good as you, that is).
What's also cool is that he sells control boxes for people like you who have some sort of electric rig that want automation added on. They look neat.
Augie
Well-Known Member
That and I think there are more posts in this thread about that system than from me....
Just messing around sankey but you are really selling a system nobody had heard of or you have used extensively yet. I just cant see brewing in sinks myself but good luck with the system. You have a great write up in your thread that I have not taken the time to read yet.
I would say now that I have settled on a system this thread can be locked or removed.
The Pol
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Umm, thier site sayes $4200 INCLUDES DELIVERY for the fully automatic. That is an awesome price, am I reading their site wrong?
I like the SS sinks, they are just like SS kettles, right? Except they are suspended so you can easily have a bottom drain.
I think it is a nice DIY idea... and FULL automation for $4200? If it works, that is amazing... simply put. Face it, beer aint hard to make, so it should make beer, good on ya!
SankePankey
Well-Known Member
Right, I think I'm wrong about that with brewmation, but not the others. There's something on the site about free shipping, but I'm in new york and I get a break for shipping cause I pay tax. I remember him talking about that with me. I'll have to ask him. Thanks for mentioning it... I think my quote said $4200, though, so ... must ask.
Yeah, if the semi is $3650 including shipping, that's a steal. The full auto is way worth it, though, if you don't want to sit next to the brewhouse.
No worries Augie and good luck with your BM (wait that doesn't sound right...). (Just one thing tho, and sorry for hijacking your thread too, I'm not selling anything.. just waxing poetic... I wanted to be thorough so if anyone wanted to point out something about the brew session that was weird, I could know it before spending my money.)
Yeah, if the semi is $3650 including shipping, that's a steal. The full auto is way worth it, though, if you don't want to sit next to the brewhouse.
No worries Augie and good luck with your BM (wait that doesn't sound right...
). (Just one thing tho, and sorry for hijacking your thread too, I'm not selling anything.. just waxing poetic... I wanted to be thorough so if anyone wanted to point out something about the brew session that was weird, I could know it before spending my money.)Killervector
Active Member
Wife gave me the go ahead... thinking really hard of which I want. 12 weeks for B3 or 1 week for BM. Leaning towards BM... but I don't want to let the time thing make the decision for me. Maybe I'll log on B3 and price another one up... there are just so many freaking options!
If you need help let me know!
hahnderosa
Well-Known Member
And you could probably fit 2 Sabcos in it too ;o)
Augie - how are you liking your Sabco? Been following this thr4ad n would love to hear from you or see some pics.
Moose
Moose
Indyking
Well-Known Member
May I revive this thread? I'm going to invest in one of the automated systems later this year and just starting to do my research. I'm afraid I will not have time to read all 10 pages here, perhaps the current onwers of the systems in the forum can provide feedback/advice? Thanks in advance.
Indyking
Well-Known Member
This is not very promising about the brew magic...
Such an expensive system for basic issues like this...
Are any of the current owners out there experiencing this?
Such an expensive system for basic issues like this...
Are any of the current owners out there experiencing this?
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REALLY glad you posted this video...Thank you.
I've been thinking about getting one of these....probably not now though unless we can get some feedback on why this is happening from Sabco.
If it's not self regulating properly then why would anyone use one of these? I find it hard to believe this is how they're supposed to work
I've been thinking about getting one of these....probably not now though unless we can get some feedback on why this is happening from Sabco.
If it's not self regulating properly then why would anyone use one of these? I find it hard to believe this is how they're supposed to work
samc
Well-Known Member
You are going to spend $5,000 or more on a brewing system but you are not going to read 10 pages of info?
My advice is to read 10 pages of info.
Indyking
Well-Known Member
samc said:You are going to spend $5,000 or more on a brewing system but you are not going to read 10 pages of info?
My advice is to read 10 pages of info.
Well, I just may, but I thought getting more updated info from current users would be far more helpful.
I wish someone who actually owns a brew magic or Brew sculpture for some time, or other better system, would just chime in and tell us what their experiences are.
Sure both systems look good on advertisement but how about real owners out there?
I having been thinking about getting the BM system but haven't pulled the trigger . That video makes me think twice.
The video is 2 years old and they never updated if the issues were resolved.
The other option is to get the Sabco Rims-Wizard and add it to the system I have now. Any one have any experience with the Rims-Wizard?
The video is 2 years old and they never updated if the issues were resolved.
The other option is to get the Sabco Rims-Wizard and add it to the system I have now. Any one have any experience with the Rims-Wizard?
Indyking
Well-Known Member
This is another video, more recent, whose onwer seem to have no problems with the system. It is very short though and not much feedback in the comments sections.
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I've got a B3 Tippy Dump (about 2.5 years now) and its been great. Only issue that I have had is that one of the thermowells was a little bit tight so I had to sand down a temperature probe so it would slide in completely.
I wouldn't have any issues going with a MoreBeer system again. If I had the ability to do it, I would have loved to have had Kals www.theelectricbrewery.com system
I wouldn't have any issues going with a MoreBeer system again. If I had the ability to do it, I would have loved to have had Kals www.theelectricbrewery.com system
scratchy1971
Well-Known Member
Indyking said:
I have had my BM for 4 months now. Brewed 3 batches and no issues with burners being off-centered and causing hot handles. As for the self-regulating, it has been within a few tenths of a degree from target and only fluctuates up or down a tenth or so. Very accurate and reliable so far.
Moved it into the basement and currently getting everything ready for indoor use. Taking longer than expected rigging ventilation. I miss it so bad!
scratchy1971
Well-Known Member
As for the system itself, very impressed overall. I also pondered between the B3 and BM for some time. I went with the BM for RIMS, Tri-clamps and hard lines. But the big kicker was the fact I live two hours from Toledo and picked it up to avoid shipping. Morebeer wanted $800 for freight. If I lived 2 hours from Morebeer, I would have went with the B3. I think both systems are very well built and the differences overall are minor. Either one was a hell of an upgrade from my DIY cooler/Bayou Cooker setup I had been using for 5 years.
The touch screen controller is very cool, but it is pure bling. As long as a brew system can accurately control mash temps, whether you punch it in on a screen or turn a dial and watch a needle move is irrelevant. If your at a point where you want to buy a BM based on the controller, stop and re-evaluate. Same goes for the height of the BM. Stepping-up on a step stool a few times to check the mash is not 100% ideal, but definitely not a deal breaker by any means either.
For me, buying a system as opposed to building came down to skill and time. I did a tremendous amount of research on all types of rigs, and decided to buy instead of building. Yeah, sometimes I look at systems folks built and post on HBT and I just drool. But, I still feel I made the right choice based on my skill level and time left over after work and 3 young kids. However, if you can weld and have access to all the needed tools to build, by all means, go build it. That is the overall best route to go in my opinion because you have a custom rig for less $$. But, you also need to place a value on your time when you figure the total cost.
The touch screen controller is very cool, but it is pure bling. As long as a brew system can accurately control mash temps, whether you punch it in on a screen or turn a dial and watch a needle move is irrelevant. If your at a point where you want to buy a BM based on the controller, stop and re-evaluate. Same goes for the height of the BM. Stepping-up on a step stool a few times to check the mash is not 100% ideal, but definitely not a deal breaker by any means either.
For me, buying a system as opposed to building came down to skill and time. I did a tremendous amount of research on all types of rigs, and decided to buy instead of building. Yeah, sometimes I look at systems folks built and post on HBT and I just drool. But, I still feel I made the right choice based on my skill level and time left over after work and 3 young kids. However, if you can weld and have access to all the needed tools to build, by all means, go build it. That is the overall best route to go in my opinion because you have a custom rig for less $$. But, you also need to place a value on your time when you figure the total cost.
atgregory
Member
I have a B3 20 gallon tippy dump with all the bells and whistles. I brew 20 gallons every week for the past year and love the system. I always hit my temps and og. I got the painted frame and its starting to look tired, everything else is great. If I was to do it again maybe a ss frame and a flat frame. Well worth the money. Costly, but I rather brew than build. Remember get the right tools for the job.
Indyking
Well-Known Member
Many thanks to all the current owners who provided feedback so far!!! That's great!!!
scratchy1971, similar to you, I live relatively close to Toledo, just 3.5-4h away, and I have the ability to even drive there and pick up the system myself saving on shipping.
I have to say, the Brew Magic system look a lot more attractive, and Im not talking about the color screen, I don't really fall for those kind of irrelevant details, but for the quality of the materials and the ability to replicate successful settings achieved in previous recipes. Those are big advantages IMHO.
However, unless, I'm getting the prices wrong in their websites, I'm having a hard time justifying the much greater cost of the Brew Magic system
According to Sabco website, the Brew Magic System, just the system, without the chiller, fermenter, conditioner keg, etc is just shy of 6K, whereas, the 10 gal flat SMART Full Digital Package Brew Sculpture from More Beer with the digital gas system, plus upgraded stainless steel frame (not available in the Brew Magic), and also including the options of kettle thermometer, diverter/maximizer, and screen, all together costs only $2375.85! That's much less than half compared to the Brew Magic system? Am I looking at this correctly? Even if More Beer charges me 800 bucks for shipping, their complete digital package of the flat Beer Sculpture would cost almost half of the cost of the Brew Magic???
scratchy1971, similar to you, I live relatively close to Toledo, just 3.5-4h away, and I have the ability to even drive there and pick up the system myself saving on shipping.
I have to say, the Brew Magic system look a lot more attractive, and Im not talking about the color screen, I don't really fall for those kind of irrelevant details, but for the quality of the materials and the ability to replicate successful settings achieved in previous recipes. Those are big advantages IMHO.
However, unless, I'm getting the prices wrong in their websites, I'm having a hard time justifying the much greater cost of the Brew Magic system
According to Sabco website, the Brew Magic System, just the system, without the chiller, fermenter, conditioner keg, etc is just shy of 6K, whereas, the 10 gal flat SMART Full Digital Package Brew Sculpture from More Beer with the digital gas system, plus upgraded stainless steel frame (not available in the Brew Magic), and also including the options of kettle thermometer, diverter/maximizer, and screen, all together costs only $2375.85! That's much less than half compared to the Brew Magic system? Am I looking at this correctly? Even if More Beer charges me 800 bucks for shipping, their complete digital package of the flat Beer Sculpture would cost almost half of the cost of the Brew Magic???
Indy,
I'm not sure where you are coming up with your prices on the B3 Flat Sculpture. With all of the options you listed, it works out to be $5350.85
I'm not sure where you are coming up with your prices on the B3 Flat Sculpture. With all of the options you listed, it works out to be $5350.85
Indyking
Well-Known Member
That's right, thanks, I knew I was doing something wrong! I've got $5225.85 plus estimated $796.66 of shipping for a total of $6022.51... which is a little more expensive than the Brew Magic System considering I can actually pick up the Brew Magic myself... The only advantage of the B3 would be the stainless steel frame, which is not an option in the BM system. Also, the screen in the bottom of the boiling kettle in the B3 system to avoid whole hops to clog the valve... not sure if the Brew Magic comes with that, scratchy1971 or anybody else who has the BM, can you tell me if it does have the screen or not?
I also have to say that the Sabco chill-wizard chiller is very tempting because it connects right to the BM system with the same quality, but boy, that thing is expensive! $829.00 for a chiller, but I'm not sure I will be able to resist buying it if I get the BM system... so that has to be taken into consideration as well...
http://www.brewmagic.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Chillwiz_demo_map_3.jpg
scratchy1971
Well-Known Member
Yeah, the BM comes with 2 SS hinged false bottoms, one for the mash tun and another for the BK. They are heavy gauge, like everything else on the rig. My last batch I brewed a double IPA with 10 oz. of fresh hops and it did a fine job of straining them.
As for the SS frame, SABCO did offer it in the past, but stopped at some point. I asked Bob about it, and he said it was such an expensive upgrade, they just did not sell very many. However, the BM has SS were it really counts, on the burner plates. The kettles sit on massive SS plates that easily lift off for cleaning. Older models the plates we're just coated steel, and after awhile the coating would flake-off and the steel would corrode in some cases.
I had my heart set on an SS frame as well. But, since my plan was always to use the BM indoors, I realized SS was mostly a cosmetic desire. So, if you plan to store your BM inside or in a garage, you should be fine. Of course, all home brewers love the shiny SS.
As for the Chill Wizard, yeah that thing looks really nice and really expensive. I have been using my copper immersion chiller, but the drain tube in the BK protrudes upward from the false bottom, so the chiller sits at an awkward angle in the wort. It gets the job done, but I will definitely want to go with a plate chiller with pump setup.
If you want more information, feel free to send me a message with your phone number and we can talk. If folks would like to see some close up pics of the BM, let me know I would more than happy to post some.
As for the SS frame, SABCO did offer it in the past, but stopped at some point. I asked Bob about it, and he said it was such an expensive upgrade, they just did not sell very many. However, the BM has SS were it really counts, on the burner plates. The kettles sit on massive SS plates that easily lift off for cleaning. Older models the plates we're just coated steel, and after awhile the coating would flake-off and the steel would corrode in some cases.
I had my heart set on an SS frame as well. But, since my plan was always to use the BM indoors, I realized SS was mostly a cosmetic desire. So, if you plan to store your BM inside or in a garage, you should be fine. Of course, all home brewers love the shiny SS.
As for the Chill Wizard, yeah that thing looks really nice and really expensive. I have been using my copper immersion chiller, but the drain tube in the BK protrudes upward from the false bottom, so the chiller sits at an awkward angle in the wort. It gets the job done, but I will definitely want to go with a plate chiller with pump setup.
If you want more information, feel free to send me a message with your phone number and we can talk. If folks would like to see some close up pics of the BM, let me know I would more than happy to post some.
Indyking
Well-Known Member
Thanks Scratchy1971! That's very helpful. Yeah, I plan to set my system in the garage.
I have a copper counter flow chiller. It works really well but it currently sits in a platform when connected to the BK that is about 2-3 feet high, just enough to fit my bucket fermenters under the chiller on the garage floor and get the chilled wort into the fermenter by gravity. I'm sure I can get my chiller connected to the exit valve of the BK in the BM system and build a lower platform to accommodate the chiller, but I'm not sure the chiller will be sitting high enough from the floor to fit the fermenter under it. Can you let me know the distance between the BK valve and the floor?
I have a copper counter flow chiller. It works really well but it currently sits in a platform when connected to the BK that is about 2-3 feet high, just enough to fit my bucket fermenters under the chiller on the garage floor and get the chilled wort into the fermenter by gravity. I'm sure I can get my chiller connected to the exit valve of the BK in the BM system and build a lower platform to accommodate the chiller, but I'm not sure the chiller will be sitting high enough from the floor to fit the fermenter under it. Can you let me know the distance between the BK valve and the floor?
scratchy1971
Well-Known Member
IndyKing, from the floor to the center of tri-clamp nipple is 23.5 inches. A little higher than the top of a 5 gal. glass carboy, if that helps.
Indyking
Well-Known Member
Great, thanks. The height will be just enough to fit my chiller and fermenters, but won't work if I get a taller vessel, like a conical or the Sabco fermenter, unless I build a platform to raise the whole system, or get their chill-wizard, which operates with a pump.
When I went through Magic Hat's brewery tour, they had a BM as their pilot.
ScottSA
Active Member
So i've used a B3 system and one thing that bugs me is the outlet on the front panel. My buddy who had it, he could have bought whatever he wanted, dude's loaded. He got the B3, full smart digital propane. But i can't get past those plugs. why not have it wired into a box and have some switches? it seems really silly to be plugging and unplugging pumps when you gotta get the pumps primed or need to stop. I'm leaning towards the BM because of this. i really liked the B3, its slightly cheaper...but that outlet
I've got a quote from brewsteel using a BCS-460 and HLT gas control that is on par with both the b3 and bm system. the brewsteel also includes a dual plate chiller and hop/trub filter. I'm freaking torn.
I've got a quote from brewsteel using a BCS-460 and HLT gas control that is on par with both the b3 and bm system. the brewsteel also includes a dual plate chiller and hop/trub filter. I'm freaking torn.
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So i've used a B3 system and one thing that bugs me is the outlet on the front panel. My buddy who had it, he could have bought whatever he wanted, dude's loaded. He got the B3, full smart digital propane. But i can't get past those plugs. why not have it wired into a box and have some switches? it seems really silly to be plugging and unplugging pumps when you gotta get the pumps primed or need to stop. I'm leaning towards the BM because of this. i really liked the B3, its slightly cheaper...but that outlet
I've got a quote from brewsteel using a BCS-460 and HLT gas control that is on par with both the b3 and bm system. the brewsteel also includes a dual plate chiller and hop/trub filter. I'm freaking torn.
Those controller plugs were a big thing for me on the tippy dump. Forget to unplug before you dump and you find you ripped it straight off.
Now ask me how I know?
Subscribed. I too have quotes from Brewsteel, Sabco and have tinkered with the options on the Morebeer site (as recently as about an hour ago). Glad this thread has been revived. I read it originally last summer when I was first toying with the idea of a system.
My wife has finally relented and I am looking at placing an order in the next couple of weeks. I've been doing the research all over again it seems.
I had all but decided on the BM (I work at a software company and have to admit that the bling of the control system swayed me). My problem is that each time I come close to settling about a system because of an option here or there, some feature, pro or option on one of the other systems creeps back into my brain.
Chilling is a big part of the equation for me. I had my heart set on a plate chiller until I started reading on the difficulty of cleaning them. Same goes for counter flow chillers with the cleaning and storage. I also live in Oklahoma, where the summers can be brutal. I am leaning toward the morebeer immersion chiller with the recirculating diverter tube. I could really see me getting a lot of milage out of that if I used a pond pump or something simlar to recirculate the immersion side water through an ice bath.
I'm also torn between HERMS and RIMS on the Sabco vs. the Morebeer systems. Since I mash in the traditional 10 gal rubbermade cooler now, either would be an improvement for temp control. But for those of you out there who have brewed both ways, which is less of a hassle? Large volumes of water to keep a HERMS coil covered for heat control? Or the fact that a RIMS electric heating element is just one more piece of the system that can malfunction and need to be replaced?
I got a good quote from Brewsteel, and Kurt by far offered the most customization. But when you look at that Sabco video a few posts back, it gets me thinking about after sales service. If something goes wrong with the system, who is going to be easiest to work with to remedy the issue (Brewsteel?Morebeer?Sabco?). Not offering an opinion one way or another because of the 3, I have only done business with Morebeer so far, and only for brewing ingredients.
Still a lot of factors to sort through now that I have decided to go through with the purchase. I have the cash for any of the systems I am looking at. But it's still a big decision (and a big purchase).
Glad to see this thread is being kicked around again.
My wife has finally relented and I am looking at placing an order in the next couple of weeks. I've been doing the research all over again it seems.
I had all but decided on the BM (I work at a software company and have to admit that the bling of the control system swayed me). My problem is that each time I come close to settling about a system because of an option here or there, some feature, pro or option on one of the other systems creeps back into my brain.
Chilling is a big part of the equation for me. I had my heart set on a plate chiller until I started reading on the difficulty of cleaning them. Same goes for counter flow chillers with the cleaning and storage. I also live in Oklahoma, where the summers can be brutal. I am leaning toward the morebeer immersion chiller with the recirculating diverter tube. I could really see me getting a lot of milage out of that if I used a pond pump or something simlar to recirculate the immersion side water through an ice bath.
I'm also torn between HERMS and RIMS on the Sabco vs. the Morebeer systems. Since I mash in the traditional 10 gal rubbermade cooler now, either would be an improvement for temp control. But for those of you out there who have brewed both ways, which is less of a hassle? Large volumes of water to keep a HERMS coil covered for heat control? Or the fact that a RIMS electric heating element is just one more piece of the system that can malfunction and need to be replaced?
I got a good quote from Brewsteel, and Kurt by far offered the most customization. But when you look at that Sabco video a few posts back, it gets me thinking about after sales service. If something goes wrong with the system, who is going to be easiest to work with to remedy the issue (Brewsteel?Morebeer?Sabco?). Not offering an opinion one way or another because of the 3, I have only done business with Morebeer so far, and only for brewing ingredients.
Still a lot of factors to sort through now that I have decided to go through with the purchase. I have the cash for any of the systems I am looking at. But it's still a big decision (and a big purchase).
Glad to see this thread is being kicked around again.
I'm in a similar boat. Was leaning B3 but this thread has me thinking hard about the Sabco Unit again. Also I'm from Ohio so driving to Toledo to pick it up wouldn't be a big deal if I pulled the trigger with them. But that's not the decision maker in the end for me. I wonder if anyone is in the vicinity of me (NE Ohio) with either of these systems that I could see them operate and/or get their feedback on.
scratchy1971
Well-Known Member
Well, you would be more than welcome to see my BM in Columbus if you cannot find anything closer. If you have any particular questions or want to see any pics/vids of the system that are not on the SABCO site, just let me know.
I may take you up on that sometime. My brother lives in Short North and perhaps on some future brew day I could come see it in action!
chemman14
Well-Known Member
What did you end up going with?
chemman14 said:
Wound up spending 2 weeks in Europe instead. When I looked at the lead time on building any of the systems, I realized it would have likely shipped during my trip. So I waited. Should clear the last I the credit card expenses from the trip at the beginning of August. Then I will order.
That being said, I am pretty set on the Morebeer flat system with the stainless frame. I'll admit I got a little spooked by some of the stuff I saw in this thread and others about the full, proprietary software automation of the Sabco. Seems like I something goes wrong there, your system is crippled. I like the digital system from Morebeer. Looks like it would be easier to take manual control of that if I wanted.
I also like the idea of using the second pump on the Morebeer system with one of their Jamil recirculating chillers. It is hot much of the year where I live and I think that setup with an ice bath to pre chill my IC water will suit my needs best.
Hope you enjoyed your trip. Please do take a look at my experience with BrewSteel. I've heard from some other folks that have had similar issues comissurating with me. www.richhornberger.com
He fell off the map several weeks back when more issues presented themselves last week and then basically insulted me by telling me he was giving me a deal by offering to buy back some parts ripped off the stand and then building me a new frame. I put close to 80 hours ripping everything that was busted off and figuring out how to convert the whole damn thing to electric. Just my 2 cents.
