Can you age a mead too long?

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Kneller

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Hi all. I've recently married and also recently developed an interest in brewing. I swear, these two things are not related. :D

I've been researching a lot online about brewing different things, and I'm particularly interested in making mead. One thing that I thought would be cool to do is something like make a batch that ages until our 5, 10, 15, etc. year anniversary. Everything I've read indicates that mead should definitely age for a while, but nothing I've read indicates how long is too long. Is there a too long? Or, like a fine wine, can it only get better with age?

Thanks for any advice, and I look forward to being a part of this community!
 
Well, last night I visited a friend. He told an interesting story of his father, 45 years ago, attempting to make some vinegar out of honey and water, and not quite knowing what he was doing. Ended up making mead. A lot of it. (Why his dad wanted to make 20 gallons of vinegar wasn't explained.)

He then pulled out the last jug, and gave me a sip. Fairly decent stuff, for somebody who wasn't even trying for mead. Don't know, maybe 20 years ago it was even better.
 
Kneller said:
Hi all. I've recently married and also recently developed an interest in brewing. I swear, these two things are not related. :D
Click to expand...

That made my day.

Aging seems to be very much dependent on what you have. Most mead seems to benefit from 2 - 4 months. Some continue to get better, like a JAOM for instance - that's at its best at 8-10 months. Others start to fade, especially meads with certain spices. I haven't made enough of the different mead styles to really have a handle on what the peak is for each type. But in my experience everything I've made was better at 4 - 6 months. My ciders become excellent at one year.
 
I've made 2 meads.
first one is a yr old and about 13% and is smooth.
it had a "hotness" to it when I first bottled in flip tops.

I brewed two gallons from honey, pears, and sugar then put on the back porch to cold crash so I could rack.
They partially froze so I turned 1 gallon into 2. :)

not an expert but I believe this one will need a good yr also.
 
Some where on this forum is a post by a member that found a bottle that had been tucked away for (IIRC) something like 20 years he was quite pleased with it. As I understand it, it's not a case of it slowly gets better for 16 years, and then at 16 yrs+1 day it turns to crap. It should peak at some point then be a bit diminished with time afterwards.
 
using higher quality corks (and the right size for your bottles, obviously) is said to be one of the more important parts of very long-term aging.

i've got a few 7+ year old bottles that are pretty outstanding, and i'm assuming they're still on the upswing.
 
For our Christmas meetings, one of the original members of our brew club brings an aged mead which last Christmas was 19 years old

It really is the tastiest adult beverage I've ever had. It's like an alcohol toasted marshmallow and oh, so good.
 
I recently tasted a 10 year old JAOM that was good.

If I were trying to do this, here is how I would personally approach it:

1. Plan a sack mead with the highest ABV possible to increase the aging potential

2. Use very careful handling and packaging process after initial fermentation to minimize oxidation

3. Cork with high quality corks and wax seal over the corks.

4. Perhaps this should go first, but make a practice batch first. Learn from your mistakes at least one time and then make “the one” when you feel comfortable with the process.
 
Like many wines, barleywines, and other high ABV beverages, mead can age a long time. It depends...

In my opinion, most mead really benefits from at least 1 year of aging/conditioning. The only way to know if a mead is aging well is to try it periodically until you feel it has reached it potential. Then it is ready to drink. However, be sure to save some bottles for future age sampling!

I have a few 20+ year old meads that are still good; one is OK and not getting better, 1 is really good and still improving, and 1 bottle left of a 3rd that was so good the last time I tried that I don't know when I will open it.

The 2 best ones are fairly high ABV (14%+) and sweet. The OK one is probably 12% and not sweet. Maybe the residual sugar helps.

/u/amadeo38 makes some good points. In any case, the only way for you to know will be to make a mead, let it age at least a year, and see. It is an adventure!
 
GrogNerd said:
For our Christmas meetings, one of the original members of our brew club brings an aged mead which last Christmas was 19 years old

It really is the tastiest adult beverage I've ever had. It's like an alcohol toasted marshmallow and oh, so good.
Click to expand...

That sounds really interesting. Any chance you can ask for the recipe and pass it along?


Amadeo38 said:
I recently tasted a 10 year old JAOM that was good.

If I were trying to do this, here is how I would personally approach it:

1. Plan a sack mead with the highest ABV possible to increase the aging potential

2. Use very careful handling and packaging process after initial fermentation to minimize oxidation

3. Cork with high quality corks and wax seal over the corks.

4. Perhaps this should go first, but make a practice batch first. Learn from your mistakes at least one time and then make “the one” when you feel comfortable with the process.
Click to expand...

I'm definitely doing some practice runs first. I will probably spend my first year or so honing some skills, while also developing my long term mead plan along the way.

Based on my (totally noob) research so far, I'm thinking my best bet would eventually be a Bochet with as close to 20% ABV as possible, a champagne or white wine yeast that with upwards of 18% tolerance, oaked (for the tanins), possibly even using some black tea in the nutrient mix. Between the high alcohol content, the residual sugar, and the tanins, it would actually need a fair amount of aging to even be palatable.

Of course, I'm barely starting out and it's a work in progress, so I'm totally open to feedback.
 
What's the most aged commercial mead you can buy? Maybe some guidance can be derived from that.

I think the oldest I've found may have said 3 months aging in an oak barrel. That's it. On the other hand, some of the Schramm meads say that additional bottle aging for 5 years (after you buy it) would improve their flavor. Schramm didn't advertise that part in advance though! But it says so on the bottle.
 
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GrogNerd said:
I've brewed a Grodziskie, but never heard of Polish mead. down ANOTHER rabbit hole we go!
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Equal volumed of honey and water, fermented for a long time, aged for even longer, and micro-oxidation is needed.

I've had some that were 15+ years old that have been fabulous.

There's also a polish style that has a 2:1 ratio of honey:water, but those are apparently pretty tricky to make as you gave to manage all of that sugar through step feeding and massive backsweetening.

@mwilcox makes some wonderful polish style meads....hopefully he'll chime in here...
 
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AZ_IPA said:
Equal weights of honey and water, fermented for a long time, aged for even longer, and micro-oxidation is needed.

I've had some that were 15+ years old that have been fabulous.

There's also a polish style that has a 2:1 ratio of honey:water (again, by weight), but those are apparently pretty tricky to make as you gave to manage all of that sugar through step feeding and massive backsweetening.

@mwilcox makes some wonderful polish style meads....hopefully he'll chime in here...
Click to expand...

Does it still take that long if it's made using modern methods (e.g. TOSNA?).
 
NeverDie said:
Does it still take that long if it's made using modern methods (e.g. TOSNA?).
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Fermentation time, yes.

Aging time, no, in my opinion. One of the things that makes a truly great Polish mead is time.

These are huge meads with incredibly high OG, FG, and ABV. It really takes aging time for them to mature.
 
Blacksmith1 said:
If it's made using tonsa then it's not a traditional polish mead.
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Wait. Let's calibrate our definitions. What should I call a TOSNA mead that, aside from nutrients, is otherwise made with the exact same ingredients and ratios as a traditional polish mead? Would it be called a modern polish mead, or something else?
 
Not sure, but traditional would be traditional methods and ingredients. It probably wouldn't make any difference other than time to ferment, but then the only way to know is to do both and compare.
 
A mead I made in 2014 (it tasted hot then) has mellowed nicely. Would it last 10 or 15 years? No idea. But worth a try. And if the 15-year anniversary mead tastes like ass in 2034, you can laugh and say you outlasted the mead.

Keeping oxygen out is key to long-term stability. Consider using wax to seal the bottle tops, especially if you decide to bottle with caps. Keep it at cellar temps.
 
Blacksmith1 said:
Not sure, but traditional would be traditional methods and ingredients. It probably wouldn't make any difference other than time to ferment, but then the only way to know is to do both and compare.
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"Traditional mead consists of honey, water, yeast, and optional additives." Source: 2015 BJCP Mead Exam Study Guide

A mead made without anything else other than honey, water, and yeast was often referred to as a show mead, but that term doesn't seem to be used much anymore.
 
AZ_IPA said:
"Traditional mead consists of honey, water, yeast, and optional additives." Source: 2015 BJCP Mead Exam Study Guide
Click to expand...

Yes, by BJCP definition. But the word "traditional" has other meanings, including making things the way they're made in different parts of the world with ingredients and methods that have been used for generations.
 
I have a dozen or more Polish mead recipes in a book. None of which are what we consider show meads. These were handed down through generations. This is what I mean by traditional.
 
Maylar said:
Yes, by BJCP definition. But the word "traditional" has other meanings, including making things the way they're made in different parts of the world with ingredients and methods that have been used for generations.
Click to expand...

Shurg, but not in the context of mead....
 
My dad just gave me a bottle of mead and it has a ton of sediment on the bottom? I think its really old. Do they get sentiment? I think it's called Los carnos or something.
 
applescrap said:
My dad just gave me a bottle of mead and it has a ton of sediment on the bottom? I think its really old. Do they get sentiment? I think it's called Los carnos or something.
Click to expand...

Sure. Honey proteins can drop out over time. So can tannin from oaking. Dunno that "tons" of sediment would happen with a well crafted mead, but even what looks like perfectly clear mead at bottling can drop some dust eventually. That's why modern methods use fining agents and filtering.
 
Miraculix said:
Care to share one or two of those?
Click to expand...

GrogNerd said:
care to share a dozen?
Click to expand...
It might be easier to share the title of the book.

Let there be Melomels! Fruit Meads designed to inspire your Imagination By: Robert Ratliff

After going back to read it a bit more carefully it seems he is doing traditional recipes using modern methods. They still require long aging though.
 
Thanks guys! In a sentimental mood by sonny stitt [emoji854] talking about their age makes them very sensitive. It was a light golden and since disturbing the gunk it looks like this. It's more orange brown rust colored.

Screenshot_20190612-004317_Gallery.jpeg
 
That looks like a light layer on the very bottom. I've had commercial wines with that type of sediment. Just pour carefully and be ready for some crud on the last glass.
As long as it tastes good don't sweat it.
edit: forgot to add, let it settle again....
 
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Depends on how you store it. Oxidation will ruin mead just like any other alcohol-based drink (other than sherry and tawny port, of course, which rely on oxidation for their characteristic flavors).
 
Great question.

I have Meads in storage 60-64 Deg F and in the dark aged in beer bottles for up to 6 years with oxygen barrier crown caps and wax seals- Higher ABV 15 - 18% using a staggered nutrient protocol (Most a SNA protocol, not really TOSNA or 2.0 or 3.0) and adding spices, fruit, hops etc in secondary with tea's or juices in primary
Here are my observations
- Show (Traditional) - Continues to get better with age. I have a few 6 Year that I wish I would have put more aside.
- JAOM - Continues to get better with age. I have one at 4 Years that is very good but at 2 years I was not happy with at all..
- Melomels (Fruit in secondary) - Peak at about 2 years - IMO Does not get appreciably worse but not really any better either after 2 years.
- Methaglins = (Spices) Start to lose some of the spice flavor at 9-12 months and a lot over time, cinnamon, vanilla etc tends to disappear, hot peppers and Hop flavors stay pretty well and even if some of the spice fade over time the base mead does seem to continue to do better with age.
- Cysers (Apple or other juices) usually spiced and oaked as well - Continue to get better with age and for some reason does require more time than other meads. IDK???
- Hydromel - (Low ABV 6 - 7%) Just started some of these this past year using a modified TOSNA 3.0 (All up front) and Groenfell Quick Mead techniques (Similar to BOMM) juice or fruit in primary and filtered with a 5 and 1 micron filter set up (because I like a nice clear glass.) good at 2 months great at 4 - 6 - Nothing has lasted much longer as I keg and carb and drink them more like cider or beer.

The interesting thing is i have a number of higher ABV meads using TOSNA 2.0 (and more recently 3.0) with much better conditions and protocols that are good to great a lot quicker. A 4 - 6 year result early on now is achieved in 12 - 24 months and 2 - 4 year results in less than a year. Yeast selection, temperature, consistent quality ingredients, nutrients, aeration, time on lees fruit or spices, CO2 release and clarifying IMO all play a part. I have no idea how much each plays a part but what I do and how I do it works for me :)
 
CKuhns said:
Great question.

I have Meads in storage 60-64 Deg F and in the dark aged in beer bottles for up to 6 years with oxygen barrier crown caps and wax seals- Higher ABV 15 - 18% using a staggered nutrient protocol (Most a SNA protocol, not really TOSNA or 2.0 or 3.0) and adding spices, fruit, hops etc in secondary with tea's or juices in primary
Here are my observations
- Show (Traditional) - Continues to get better with age. I have a few 6 Year that I wish I would have put more aside.
- JAOM - Continues to get better with age. I have one at 4 Years that is very good but at 2 years I was not happy with at all..
- Melomels (Fruit in secondary) - Peak at about 2 years - IMO Does not get appreciably worse but not really any better either after 2 years.
- Methaglins = (Spices) Start to lose some of the spice flavor at 9-12 months and a lot over time, cinnamon, vanilla etc tends to disappear, hot peppers and Hop flavors stay pretty well and even if some of the spice fade over time the base mead does seem to continue to do better with age.
- Cysers (Apple or other juices) usually spiced and oaked as well - Continue to get better with age and for some reason does require more time than other meads. IDK???
- Hydromel - (Low ABV 6 - 7%) Just started some of these this past year using a modified TOSNA 3.0 (All up front) and Groenfell Quick Mead techniques (Similar to BOMM) juice or fruit in primary and filtered with a 5 and 1 micron filter set up (because I like a nice clear glass.) good at 2 months great at 4 - 6 - Nothing has lasted much longer as I keg and carb and drink them more like cider or beer.

The interesting thing is i have a number of higher ABV meads using TOSNA 2.0 (and more recently 3.0) with much better conditions and protocols that are good to great a lot quicker. A 4 - 6 year result early on now is achieved in 12 - 24 months and 2 - 4 year results in less than a year. Yeast selection, temperature, consistent quality ingredients, nutrients, aeration, time on lees fruit or spices, CO2 release and clarifying IMO all play a part. I have no idea how much each plays a part but what I do and how I do it works for me :)
Click to expand...

Thanks for your awesome post!

If I'm reading you right, using TOSNA may save a lot of time and is all upside and no downside.
 

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