can time on yeast fix this?

[BrewinBrian44]

Hey guys,

I have a mirror pond pale ale clone conditioning right now and I'm concerned with some off flavors.

Mashed at 150F

OG: 1.052
Projected FG: 1.013

I started my fermentation with a single pack wyeast 1968 in a vitality starter:

Day 1) 64
Day 2) 65
Day 3) 67
Day 4) 69
Day 5+) 72

Reached FG day 8 at 1.011, 2 points below projected, likely due to slight temp drop during mash. Taste sample was great, no diacetyl, smooth bitterness, slight sweetness. Because I reached FG and didn't notice off flavors I added 2oz of Cascade dry hops and let sit for 3 days.

Did another taste sample on day 11 before cold crashing and this is where it went south. The beer seemed to have rapidly produced very intense fruity esters and had a hot alcohol nose and bite to it that I didn't notice before. It completely drown out the dry hops.

Due to these off flavors, I withheld the cold crash and placed the primary upstairs in a 70 deg closet to hopefully clean up more.

Could an infection have occurred when I dry hopped? Will the solvent like character fade away?

 

[EPbrew]

I don't think extra time on the yeast is going to fix the flavor you're noticing. Taken from the Wyeast site: Ales produced with this strain tend to be fruity, increasingly so with higher fermentation temperatures of 70-74°F

 

[Boleslaus]

Could be a result of the high temperature towards the end of fermentation. If that's the case it may clean up slightly, but probably not much.

 

[BrewinBrian44]

The beer had a very aggressive fermentation at 12hrs post pitch and appeared to be pretty much done at by day 3 that's why I ramped up to 72 by day 5. I've used this same ferm temp schedule with this yeast before and had great results. Maybe I jumped the gun this time...

If it did get too hot, wouldn't I have noticed these flavors on my first taste test on day 8?

 

[Boleslaus]

Hard to say. The logical side in me says it isn't an infection because those are not off-flavors typically associated with bacteria. Also, the only thing that changed was the dryhopping. Are you sure you just weren't tasting suspended hop matter (if you used pellets). Sometimes beers don't really show their true flavor til after cold-crash because of suspended yeast and hops.

 

[BrewinBrian44]

Hard to say. The logical side in me says it isn't an infection because those are not off-flavors typically associated with bacteria. Also, the only thing that changed was the dryhopping. Are you sure you just weren't tasting suspended hop matter (if you used pellets). Sometimes beers don't really show their true flavor til after cold-crash because of suspended yeast and hops.

I'm sure I was tasting hop specks in my sample, but I'm pretty familiar with what that does to the flavor so I didn't mention it here. What I'm getting is a distinct hot aroma that's affecting the flavor. It's almost like the fruity esters are made of alcohol vapor, if that makes any sense... It's a 5.5%ABV beer that is coming across as 8%ABV.

I also forgot to mention. I tape an insulated probe to the side of my glass carboy for temp readings. Maybe the thick glass isn't conducting as much heat and its showing my temp readings being way lower than they actually are inside. Also, my basement is actually too cold right now, so I'm heating the beer with FERM wrap. I just made a hoppy red ale with the same ferm temp schedule with this same yeast, the only difference was using a bucket instead of a carboy.

A while back I bought a thermowell stopper for my carboy to measure temps inside, but the damn stopper is just slightly too small for the neck and it falls inside the fermenter with very little effort, so I gave up on it.

Can wild yeast cause these hot fruity esters?

 

[JimRausch]

It does sound like what a hot fermentation in the 1st 48 hours would give you. Doesn't sound like flavors that contamination might give.
So, just to be sure, I'd check and make sure your thermometers are reading correctly. I have reasonable hopes that this might clear up. I'd doublecheck SG to be sure, then cold crash and hit her with gelatin. Then package and hope for the best.

 

[JimRausch]

I forgot to ask if you checked the SG before and after the dryhop. If the SG didn't drop significantly, then you did not add any wild buggers. Make sense?

 

[BrewinBrian44]

I forgot to ask if you checked the SG before and after the dryhop. If the SG didn't drop significantly, then you did not add any wild buggers. Make sense?

Yes, I checked before and after, both were reading 1.011.

I did notice some additional bubbling after the last reading, but maybe that's just CO2 coming out of suspension... I plan on doing a taste sample 14 days after the last one to see if the flavor has changed sitting on the yeast, I'll also check the SG.

I'm pretty sure the thermometer is accurate. I calibrated it in an ice bath when I bought it and it was only 0.3deg off.

 

[oceanic_brew]

I just made 5 batches with this strain.

My last IPA tasted very phenolic until It cold conditioned. I ferment at 62/63 and free rise near end of the cycle to 70 for a diacetyl rest.

Could be worth it to take a sample and bottle it in one of those PET bottles with a little bit of sugar while you let your batch age a little.

This gives you the added ability of seeing how your batch is gonna condition whilst potentially cleaning up the bulk beer.

Don't worry about a little bit of oxygenation in the one bottle since you are only trying to gauge a few specific off flavors. If the beer tastes decent after the carb and cold condition phase then you know to go ahead and bottle the batch.

I learned this the hard way, almost poured batches that turned out great and had a few batches that if I did the "bottle- one" method would never have been bottled with the hope of it cleaning up.

 

[oceanic_brew]

It seems as though you are experiencing a much higher amount of the phenolic/ester profile than usual.

 

[BrewinBrian44]

I wonder if I'm not actually getting fusels, but ethyl acetate... I just read that the ethyl acetate ester can smell like nail polish remover in higher concentrations. If thats true, sounds like this could be a dumper.

 

[JimRausch]

I just made 5 batches with this strain.

My last IPA tasted very phenolic until It cold conditioned. I ferment at 62/63 and free rise near end of the cycle to 70 for a diacetyl rest.

Could be worth it to take a sample and bottle it in one of those PET bottles with a little bit of sugar while you let your batch age a little.

This gives you the added ability of seeing how your batch is gonna condition whilst potentially cleaning up the bulk beer.

Don't worry about a little bit of oxygenation in the one bottle since you are only trying to gauge a few specific off flavors. If the beer tastes decent after the carb and cold condition phase then you know to go ahead and bottle the batch.

I learned this the hard way, almost poured batches that turned out great and had a few batches that if I did the "bottle- one" method would never have been bottled with the hope of it cleaning up.

I like this 'bottle one' idea. I always bottle one in a soda bottle when doing the whole batch in order to gage carbonation , but I never thought of doing one prior to bottling the batch to test how the batch will turn out. Genius, Genius, I say!

 

[BrewinBrian44]

UPDATE:

Two more weeks in primary fixed the beer! Flavors smoothed out, still estery, but in a pleasant way, no more hot smells/flavors. Glad I didn't give up on it!