Can a hoebrewer make REALLY high IBU beer?

CornyKegs 728
Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
T

Tall_Yotie

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2010
Messages
1,038
Reaction score
29
Location
Santa Cruz
edit: homebrewer, not hoebrewer; curse the typos of titles!

Howdy all! So, friend of a relative who is a big brewer said that a normal home brewer with normal equipment and normal water can't get much above 70 or so IBU's.

So I tried to make a Ruination clone.

14lb 2-Row
1lb 40L

OG: 1.079
FG: 1.016

3oz Columbus 90min
1.5oz Centennial 15min
0.5oz Centennial 5min
2oz Fuggles dry hopped

So from the boil additions I should have had well over 100IBU, around the 120 range. However, it tastes just like La Gunitas, more around 50 IBUs, maybe 60. That is totally EPIC, but it is not all that bitter. Good hop aroma from the dry hopping, some bittering and flavoring. But no where near the insane bitterness. I am happy with what I got, and I want to brew it again (most popular brew yet), but I am surprised that I didn't get death bitter.

Is he right? do you folks that make double and triple IPA's condition your water? Or is it probably because I brewed this off of a well source, so its chemistry it not normal tap water?

Any thoughts or feedback appreciated!
 
Probably you water chemisty... You can send a sample to ward labs for them to analyse. That is what I did....I think it was around 16 bucks for the results.
 
Alrighty, I should get that checked out. There are 4 places I brew at, so I should know what water I am using.
 
With a high OG like that is there any chance that it just comes down to not getting efficient extraction from your hops? I saw a post here today/yesterday about a recipe suggesting boiling the hops separately in plain water to get around the high OG of the wort.
 
Though that may be a solution, it is not a practical one. With my OG level I still am in the range of beers you can buy that have crazy high IBU count (Ruination for example). I am thinking it may just be my water chemistry and I should get that checked out. I think that is my next step in my brewing life.
 
FULL BOIL?

Lupuline SHIFT????(have others confirmed your findings)

When I brewed the ruination, I had a similar experience.

PISSED WAS I!!!

until I tasted ruination again, and realized that my tongue was just more used to the high IBU's.

It still hasn't recovered.
 
I am doing full boil.

I was annoyed that it wasn't what I was expecting until I cracked open a La Gunitas, my favorite readily available IPA, and realized that I had made a clone. Well, my wife can tell the difference, LaG has more of a grapefruit citrus note while mine has a mandarin orange note. In a blind test I actually preferred mine over LaG, so yay!
 
My hoebrewer just brings me my drinks and I tip her generously.
 
My hoebrewer doesn't listen to what I want. She will brew anything with a pulse. She'll brew it's brains out for next to nothing.
 
My hopbill for my 5 year aging barelywine was 150 ibus....I used beersmith's ibu shifter to increase it til I got there. I was alos trying to get an og of 1.150 (I think I got it to og of 1.131 or something)

Our tastebuds supposedly can only perceive a certain level of Ibus (I can't recall if it's 100ibus or not)

Palmer talks about it here in an old basic brewing.

]
March 20, 2008 - What Is an IBU . . . Really?
John Palmer, author of How to Brew, shares information from a conference that challenged his concept of what defines an International Bitterness Unit (IBU).
Clicky to listen mp-3
Click to expand...

We can't also perceive a certain difference in ibus either I don't recall if it's 10 or 5 ibu's apart.

But bottom line is out taste buds or the reticular function of our brain, or whatever is going to shut down the ibus to the level can taste. SO if Lagunitu's bitterness is the max our taste buds/brains can tolerate, and we make or buy a beer bitterer than that whatever mechanism does is is going to clamp it down to that level.
 
I doubt water chemistry is a problem in terms if IBUs. There are essentially no water sources in nature that give a low pH in a pale beer. Iso-alpha acids are more soluble at a higher pH.

The amount of sulfate will effect the perception of bitterness, but not the IBUs.
 
I brewed Jamils Hop Hammer which is based off of Pliny The Elder if I recall correctly a while back. I never tried the Pliny when I brewed this but ordered a case afterwards to see how well I did. I took both my beer and the Pliny to a party and did a blind taste test for a few of the hop heads and all but 1 picked mine as being better and having higher IBU’s. I did use 1/2 distilled and 1/2 filtered water and adjusted it from there. If my memory is correct I think the hop hammer was estimated at over 160-170 IBU’s where the Pliny is rated around 100. And yes I could tell mine was a tad more hoppy but no way 50% or more as the numbers would suggest. My first few IPA’s I used just straight filtered tap water and they were good but didn’t have that punch. Now using a 50/50 mix and salts I can say that gave all my hoppy beers what they were missing. So my suggestion would be to look at your water. :mug:
 
You have to remember that in a higher gravity brew there is much less hops utilized in the boil. The only way to know for sure what your IBUs are is through chemistry. I was looking to do IBU analysis on some of my stuff at school but we don't have HPLC grade iso-Octane. Theoretical IBUs are just that theoretical based on your setup and your water. Until you have them tested on a couple brews we're all making guesses as to what our IBUs really are.

According to the Hopshot spreadsheet on NB you have a 10% reduction in utilization at 1.080, 20% at 1.100, and 30% at 1.150. I don't know how accurate that or what those calculations are based on. Being that this is just hop extract the same percentages should apply roughly to cone/pellet hops. So you might have sold yourself short on hops for the IBUs you wanted.
 
A friend and I used a pound of hops in a triple IPA recipe with an OG of 1.090. Calculated IBU of something like 280. Is that what you're going for?

We used all pellets, around 20 lbs of grain in the mash, added 7 grams of calcium carbonate in the mash and into the sparge water as well, and did a 90 minute boil instead of 60. We tasted it the other day and it is obscenely hoppy.

Of course, a human can only perceive 70-100 IBUs depending on who you ask. And I've also been told that after around 100, it becomes very difficult to extract any more alpha acids out of the hops and into the wort. Even beers that people will swear are insanely hoppy are only 75 or 80, but they have the hell dry-hopped out of them, so there's tons of aroma that throws everyone off.
 
If you've ever cracked open a brew as soon as it was carb'd and said to yourself, "this is too damn hoppy." then you know that a hoebrewer CAN make really high IBU beers.

I made an all centennial IPA and it required eight weeks of aging in the bottle before it was drinkable. Before that, it just felt waaay too bitter. I was worried that I would have to dump the batch, but it just needed some time to settle down.

One thing to keep in mind is that it is way easier to brew a bitter beer at lower OG. Rather than try to make a high ABV beer like Ruination or PtE, try making a 1.056 OG beer.

Hell, use high AA hops like Sorachi Ace or even some hop oil extract at a lower OG and you can assuredly make something undrinkable!
 
Stone uses Magnum(14.7% +/-) in at least one of their beers chinook and centennial are 10%(+/- respectively) and fuggles is 5% if your lucky. The simple answer is use a hops with a higher alpha acid and use more hops if you want it more bitter. But remember utilization efficiency goes down as boil gravity goes up. And relax and have a homebrew while doing all this next time.
 
I have been experimenting with TINY amounts of a 17%AA hop for non hoppy beers.

1/8 oz actually provided too much bitterness at 60 minutes in my last stout.
 
Also keep in mind that the acids in hops physically stop being soluable right around the 100 IBU mark. Anything over that is "theoretical IBU" territory. Mikkeller's 1000 IBU IPA seems less hoppy than other, lower IBU beers, IMHO, but that's because that 1000 IBU mark is all just a nice marketing tool and completely theoretical. No beer, commercial or homebrewed, can physically have more than probably 110 IBU. Again, some may be a bit more, but not much. The acids just won't stay in solution after a certain point.
 
What is the name of the 17% hops? I need to get my lhbs ordering that stuff. I wouldn't say the oil isn't soluble, just the water is saturated. Segway into my theory about my 600ppm hard water giving less than optimal extraction..anybody have thoughts on similarities?
 
DoubleD said:
But remember [hop] utilization efficiency goes down as boil gravity goes up.
Click to expand...

This is one of the main points that you need to worry about. The best way to make a really hoppy beer is to do a full volume boil.
 
I agree 100% the thinner the better. My winter warmer had a beginning s.g. of 1.124 for example. (Sometimes it your gravity is high. So your utilization is less efficient.)
 
I can get as much bitterness as I want with my tap water. Maybe my water is just ideal for it I don't know, I have never had it tested.
 
I get what I want. Just thought it was possible for the water to be saturated with solids (hard water) and sugar to the point extraction suffers..just thinking
 
DoubleD said:
I get what I want. Just thought it was possible for the water to be saturated with solids (hard water) and sugar to the point extraction suffers..just thinking
Click to expand...

I'm sure it does but you can always use more hops to make up for it.
 
New Years Day I brewed a IPA with Warrior as my bittering hops and Centennial in the last stages of the boil for aroma, then more Centennial for dry hopping. I am drinking it now and I think it came out too smooth, not enough bitterness. Well my wife is not into IPA’s and she thinks it is too bitter!?

I had the master brewer at my local brewpub over a couple of days ago, no hoebrewers were available, and I solicited comments about my IPA from him. He was saying that the full body or maltiness of the beer was balancing the hops, so the bitterness was not as pronounced. I plan on doing the same recipe again, I think I will up the Warrior Hops a little and see what happens.
 
Snowhere said:
New Years Day I brewed a IPA with Warrior as my bittering hops and Centennial in the last stages of the boil for aroma, then more Centennial for dry hopping. I am drinking it now and I think it came out too smooth, not enough bitterness. Well my wife is not into IPA’s and she thinks it is too bitter!?

I had the master brewer at my local brewpub over a couple of days ago, no hoebrewers were available, and I solicited comments about my IPA from him. He was saying that the full body or maltiness of the beer was balancing the hops, so the bitterness was not as pronounced. I plan on doing the same recipe again, I think I will up the Warrior Hops a little and see what happens.
Click to expand...

See this thread:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f14/hop-desensitized-hop-tolerance-154570/index4.html

When SWMBO can't take the bitterness, and I can't detect it, it is time for a hop haitus.
 
Double_D said:
Taking a hiatus is a good idea. I've been so burnt out on IPA everything I've done recently was belgian style.
Click to expand...

Oh crap! You have class. That was the least snooty way to point out my hiatus mis-spelling while still pointing it out. (but not putting too fine a point on it;))

Belgians.....why not!!!
 

Similar threads

Gadjobrinus
N. England - late hopping guidance, IBU's?
Replies
24
Views
1K
day_trippr
day_trippr
Clint Yeastwood
Can you Make a Really Good Lager with Corn?
Replies
15
Views
2K
DuncB
D
B
IBU with Beersmith on high gravity beer
Replies
9
Views
733
hottpeper13
H
sibelman
Success "fixing" a too-sweet beer
Replies
1
Views
397
MaxStout
MaxStout
K
Beer overly bitter after priming
Replies
10
Views
1K
mac_1103
mac_1103
Williams Brewing 300

Latest posts

Back
Top