California IPA Recipe

[ginuwineus]

http://hopville.com/recipe/1149625/california-common-beer-recipes/west-side-connection

WHAT DO YOU GUYS THINK???

 

[boist]

Well, it's not a California common, I would not use high-alpha hops as late addition, it's too big, which means your B:G ratio isn't enough for an IPA, you should seriously consider using redoing your whole hop schedule, and you should look at the recipes forum where you can post these kinds of questions. But most of all, I THINK YOU SHOULD STOP SHOUTING.

Cheers.

 

[chickypad]

I think you mean you're shooting for a west coast style IPA, not Cali common. In that case I agree with boist, you need to up your late addition hops and should dry hop too. I'm not familiar with Bravo but my understanding is it doesn't give the big citrus component that a lot of the C hops commonly used in west coast styles do. I would add some of those for late addition and dry hopping (i.e. cascade, centennial, citra, amarillo - you could pair them with the bravo if you want to keep that for your bittering and also try some late to see what it's like).

 

[ginuwineus]

Boist, its my third home brew, cut me some slack. I was doing some research last night on Bravo IPA's, and thats basically where I got the hop schedule. I read some really good things about Bravo. I would like to include some Amarillo as well.

I'm still confused as to the flavor and aroma of the hops. Flavor and bitterness is towards the start of the boil (60, 45min), and aroma towards the end of the boil (5 min), correct???

 

[boxofjibboo]

I believe 45 min addition is unnecessary (from what ive read on here). Add hops at 60 min, then 20 min, and then 5 or 0 min for the last hop addition.

 

[chickypad]

A bit of a simplification, but bitterness is at the start of the boil, flavor in the 30-15 range, and aroma 15 to flameout and dryhopping.
For my IPA's I like to do the bittering addition at 60, then really load up on the 20 to zero additions plus plenty of dry hop.

 

[ginuwineus]

Okay... What about this?

http://beercalculus.hopville.com/recipe

 

[chickypad]

I can't read that, I don't think the recipe was saved.

 

[ginuwineus]

It should take you directly to it. Anyway, here's the new hop schedule:

boil 60 mins 1.0 Bravo pellet 16.8
boil 20 mins 0.5 Bravo pellet 16.8
boil 10 mins 1.0 Amarillo pellet 7.0
boil 1 min 1.0 Centennial info pellet 10.0
dry hop, 14 days 1.0 Centennial leaf 10.0

 

[chickypad]

Looks better to me. I'd add an ounce of amarillo to the dry hop.

 

[ginuwineus]

Do you think I should throw in an aroma hop like a Cascade in there? Maybe replacing the Amarillo at 10 min.

 

[richbrew99]

The actual link is this:
http://hopville.com/recipe/1149625/american-ipa-recipes/west-side-connection
I don't know where California Common got into the link.

 

[chickypad]

Do you think I should throw in an aroma hop like a Cascade in there? Maybe replacing the Amarillo at 10 min.

I like the amarillo. I just meant I'd throw in another ounce of something for dry hop - either amarillo or cascade sounds good.

 

[Ramitt]

The Cascade at 30 seems wasteful, you get very little bittering and not as much flavor/aroma as you could later. I would think about moving it >20 min.

 

[boist]

ginuwineus, I would never hassle anyone for an honest question or for asking for feedback. I was just giving you a hard time for using allcaps (shouting).
As for your new recipe:
I would move the 20 bravo to the 60 min (for a total of 1.5oz) and move the 30min cascade to 10 min. The rational is this: Bravo is a high alpha bittering hop. It doesn't impart any exceptional aroma/flavor. Likewise, cascade is an aroma hop, known for its citrus and grapefruit aroma. By using them in the "appropriate" slots you will achieve a better bittering ratio, and more distinct aroma.
I would also consider a few more things:
1. Taking the malt extract down a notch. - I understand that you are looking for a "big" beer, but a big IPA is hard to balance right and is often hard to drink if unbalanced. Using 8 lbs of extract, and only 1oz of bravo at 60 (instead of 1.5, assuming you've done what I've suggested above) will give you about 7% ABV, which is still "big", and a better balance.
2. Using cascade instead of centennial fro dry hop. - Again, it is an aroma hop, and it has a very distinct aroma. You can use these things to your advantage to have a more complex "perceived flavor" (flavor that is actually an aroma, but that our brain still senses as flavor) in your beer
3. Modifying the specialty grains for a more complex backbone - For example splitting the crystal 60 into half crystal 20 and half crystal 60, or splitting the victory into half cara-munich. Bitterness is important, especially in an IPA, but there should be some backbone to the beer as well.

 

[chickypad]

I agree for the most part with what boist is saying, but I wouldn't make too many generalizations based on hops AA's and where it is appropriate to use them. Many high alpha American varieties are used for late addition and dry hopping, examples CTZ and Chinook, and their aromas blend well with the more citrusy C's like cascade and centennial. As I stated I have never used Bravo myself but I know it became popular a few yrs back during the hop shortage and I think was bred from CTZ. I have heard it has an interesting aroma, spicy and floral.

I also don't think you need to replace the centennial with cascade for dry hop - could use either or do a mix. I think they are more similar than different, I get a lot of grapefruit aroma from dry hopping with centennial.

 

[BrewMU]

Did you get that MO recipe from Hopville this weekend? That's the exact grain bill for a beer I brewed the other day, without the hop schedule. It would have been under Cluster/Willamette Strong Bitter. It turned out bigger than I expected - I got 7 gallons at 1.088. To be honest, I liked your first recipe just fine. The second hop schedule looks good as well.
You should seek advice, but it's your beer. Add Amarillo to the dry hop if you want, but there would be a benefit to sticking with the Centennial - you would definitely know what kind of aroma you get from it. I usually go 60+ min, then 30, 20, 10, 0, dryhop. Yeah, I like my beer hoppy.

 

[ginuwineus]

Okay, so I decided to take it upon myself to read "How To Brew" by John Palmer, and I'm about half way through it. Honestly, I wish I would have read this before coming up with any kind of recipe. So, I've been adjusting my recipe over and over again, and I feel like I'm close to something... Here is what I posted in Recipes... Thanks for all of your help guys...

I'm trying to make a California based IPA, made mostly with ingredients from the West Coast. I've emphasized Bravo hops because they come from San Francisco, CA.. I would like a lighter more golden color, but I would like the ABV to remain high, and I understand the importance of the amber/malty flavor in an IPA.

I want nothing but American/West Coast flavors in this beer. I have not brewed yet, and I'm looking for some opinions. Thanks.

http://hopville.com/recipe/1149625/american-ipa-recipes/west-side-connection

 

[boist]

The more people you talk to, the more different opinions you are going to get about your recipe. Every person has their own experience, preferences, and knowledge base to draw on, and they'll give you advice based on that. For example, I'm a big fan of brewing to the BJCP standards, so I'll tell you that your recipe as it stands is too big to be an American IPA, and too malty to be an Imperial IPA. I also make no secret of my opinion of American IPAs in general. Now another person may tell you that you should forget the definition and just dump more hops and extract into it. Neither one of us would be wrong. Beer is a question of taste, there are no absolutes.

More than anything it sounds like you are trying to get our approval for your recipe. Like BrewMU said, it's your beer. Brew it, taste it, like it or change it, and then come back and tell us how it was.