Calculating IBUs from old hops

[CanAm]

I'm brewing my first sour beer Saturday and will be using built up Jolly Pumpkin dregs. Grain bill is 85% Pilsner and 15% Wheat.

I’ve read somewhere (that I can’t remember) that it’s good to use old hops for sour beer. Would appreciate any thoughts about this.

I happen to have some old open packs of EKG in my fridge and some old open packs of Amarillo in my freezer.

Would I need to make any adjustments to calculate IBUs with old hops? I’m planning on ~10 IBU

Thanks!

 

[Amadeo38]

You can take them out of the fridge and freezer to set them in an open container at room temp until brew day. Most people use 2-3oz of aged hops as a bittering addition, but this will depend on the AA of the hop and how long it sat out. You don’t want too high of an IBU if your lacto strain is hop intolerant.

There is a hop age calculator built into beersmith if you have it. It adjusts for storage temp and packaging (e.g. nitro flushed or just ziploc). If you don’t have beersmith I’d be happy to calculate it for you if you give me those details I just mentioned.

 

[CanAm]

Thanks Amadeo38!

I have the Beer Smith phone app but can’t find the conversion feature. Maybe you could direct me to it? If it’s only on the full software here is what I’m working with:

The East Kent Goldings are 5.2% Alpha Acid and I have one ounce that has been stored in a ziplock in the fridge for 12 months

I have 6 oz of Citra that are 14.5% Alpha Acid that were storred in a ziplock in the freezer for I’d guess 30 months

 

[CanAm]

Fridge temp 40F, Freezer 5F

 

[Morrey]

adjusted citra is 10.9 aa and ekg is 3.42 aa on the full version. haven't seen the mobile app but this is on the tools tab full version.

 

[Amadeo38]

Thanks @Morrey - got sucked into the TV and forgot to follow-up.

 

[CanAm]

Much appreciated, that function is not available on the app.

Do you have any thoughts on adding aged hops which have lost some of their Alpha Acids vs. just adding a smaller amount of fresh hops?

 

[Morrey]

Unless your hops are terribly oxidized to the point of losing or changing their flavors, I typically adjust the AA% in BS with the aging tool we just used. Zip lock baggies in the freezer are by far the most common storage method, but a vacuum sealer might be better for longer term storage.

When places like Yakima Valley have big sales on hops...like from the 2016 crop, I usually jump on them and adjust AA% accordingly. Since they are nitrogen sealed, I have not noticed a change in flavors.

 

[NTexBrewer]

My opinion is to use the EKG as long as they still smell good. Never use hops that smell cheesy, musty as this will come through in your finished beer.

Aged hops used in Lambic/Gueze Beers are usually aged open to air and warm temperatures for 3 years. They usually pass through the cheesy musty phase. They are used primarily for preservation but if my memory is correct the aged hops contribute to the lemony flavor that is common in some Lambic/Gueze.

 

[RPh_Guy]

The Beersmith calc sounds like it's for hops that are stored properly but getting older.

"Aged" hops in the context of sour beers throw the normal storage recommendations out the window ... they are usually at least 1-3 years old, stored in open air, humidity, and heat. They have lost most of the bittering and aromatic properties due to oxidation.
Alternately you can artificially age them in an oven.

At the risk of getting into another debate...
Aged hops are used primarily to control unwanted microbes (and/or Lactobacillus) during a spontaneous fermentation. There is not a specific IBU target. Lambics (the main style using aged hops) call for a long boil and long aging which drives off and degrades any hop aromatics (no cheesy flavor).
If you're pitching specific cultures (dregs in your case) there's no need to use aged hops. You can simply use non-aged hops targeting a low IBU if you want some bitterness and extra compounds in there for Brett precursors.

Cheers

 

[CanAm]

Looking forward to making it. I only have one ounce of EKG which would yield 4.7 IBU for my 10 gallon batch. Is that enough to make any difference? Alternatively, 0.65 ounces of the Citra would yield 9.75 IBU.

 

[RPh_Guy]

4.7 sounds reasonable to me. I target 5 IBU for fast sours.
5-15 IBU is typical for sours. The bitterness will mostly age out while the Brett is finishing anyway so it's not really a big deal.

 

[CanAm]

To play it safe and not over-do it on my first sour I'll go with the ~5 IBU East Kent Goldings