Brulosopher's Trub exBEERiment is done - and awsome!

[homebrewdad]

I'm sue you have seen Brulosopher around the forums. You may or may not know that he recently started perhaps the best homebrewing blog around.

Recently, he did an experiment to compare the clarity, head retention, and flavor. Check out the post, it's a great read!

 

[hunter_le five]

Interesting write-up, thanks for sharing.

I've done it both ways myself (dumping all the trub into the fermenter/trying as hard as possible to keep ANY trub from making it to the fermenter). I've never noticed any kind of discernible difference, but then again I've never done a side-by-side comparison, so I may just have not have been able to detect it.

 

[opiate82]

I have been dumping everything (kettle hops and break material) into my fermenters for a while now. I make what I consider commercial-quality beer that way. This was a great write-up that helped reaffirm my methods. Basic Brewing Radio did a similar experiment and iirc had similar results.

I think the other thing this experiment showed was that you can tweak a flavor and/or appearance of a beer one way or another. For example, for a turbid wheat beer you might consider trying to filter some of the trub out to help with haziness.

 

[WayFrae]

Very interesting! This makes me want to do my own experiment!

 

[unionrdr]

Very interesting read. I had something like this happen between the Irish red in the shorty Midwest fermenter & the ESB in the Cooper's Micro brew FV. both got rehydrated S-04 yeast. but the batch of yeast going into the ESB was controlled to within 10 degrees of current wort temp & at high krausen. The Irish red batch I flubbed on the temperature differential & a lil past high krausen. That said,they were both rehydrated in 400 mL of local spring water. The Irish red's yeast starting at 83.4F & the ESB's at 90.4. Irish red OG 1.061,ESB 1.060.
Both took off visibly in a couple hours. The Irish red stalled at 1.021. The ESB finished & started clearing in 10 days. The Irish red taking till a couple days ago to get down to 1.012 & still had the feathery proteins floating around in it. I had mistakenly used a whole Whirlfloc tablet in the boil of each. The ESB started with 5L of trub a couple minutes after pitching. But it settled down to about 1L's worth in a couple days. Long story short,the ESB went into the bottling bucket clearer with a crisp balance to it I've only gotten with my hybrid lagers,which were hazy. Both beers were strained through a dual layer fine mesh strainer. But the ESB developed a lot more trub &/or settling cold break. I did use a couple gallons of very cold top off local spring water on each. It'll be interesting in the end to compare clarity & taste perceptions in the glass in a couple weeks. So your exBEERiment does indeed seem to have merit.

 

[FarmerTed]

The House of Pendragon guys mentioned Brulosopher on the session a few weeks ago. Thanks for the link.

 

[brew_ny]

great read thanks for the link, something I will try

all the best

S_M

 

[Brulosopher]

The House of Pendragon guys mentioned Brulosopher on the session a few weeks ago. Thanks for the link.

Haha. As friends of mine, they actually kept referring to me by first name. Great episode!

 

[wingedcoyote]

Great post! For a minute it had me thinking that I should try to get MORE trub into my FV, before I decided it was a better idea to just RDWHAHB. Certainly eases my mind about worries of too much trub.

Brulosophy is a great blog in general, in particular the quick lager method is well worth checking out.

 

[pumpkinman2012]

Great exBEERiment! very interesting to say the least! Thanks for putting in all of the hard work!

 

[JPrather]

Thanks a bunch for posting this, and thanks to Brulosopher for the experiment. Good stuff.

 

[Darwin18]

Excellent write up.

I enjoyed your style with your experiment. Often times you'll see brewing experiments that are too technical that my eyes will glaze over or too simplistic that I consciously find myself poking holes in their process while reading through it. Your process was a nice middle ground and you presented your information very well. Lots of nice pictures throughout as well!

 

[TheCanisDirus]

Great test! Def follows up what i've seen with my own brews over the years. I'll forever keep my trub. (Heard it's good for yeast health too. Believe Palmer or someone on one of the BN podcasts.)

 

[browder]

Never have been afraid of getting some trub in the bucket--good write up

 

[BulldogBrewer]

The House of Pendragon guys mentioned Brulosopher on the session a few weeks ago. Thanks for the link.

Yes, we did! I'm not Tommy, I'm the big ugly ****er that sat next to him

 

[broadbill]

If I were to guess, I would say the presence of trub facilitates the precipitation of smaller proteins/particulates/precipitates, which is why Truby has much better clarity than the non-trub version.

Good stuff and nice writeup. I'm glad I'm dumping all that stuff into the fermenter now!

 

[skw]

The fact that 50% were able pick out the different glass in the triangle test, which is the expected result of them just picking it by chance, makes me wonder if there is any real difference at all.

If they could clearly tell one was clearer than the other, shouldn't that alone have helped them pick the correct one in the triangle test?

 

[opiate82]

The fact that 50% were able pick out the different glass in the triangle test, which is the expected result of them just picking it by chance, makes me wonder if there is any real difference at all.

If they could clearly tell one was clearer than the other, shouldn't that alone have helped them pick the correct one in the triangle test?

Depends on whether they were instructed to pick the odd-man-out based on appearance, taste or a combination of both. If I were running the test my main concern would be taste so that is what I would have asked the testers to judge.

 

[MichaelBrock]

The fact that 50% were able pick out the different glass in the triangle test, which is the expected result of them just picking it by chance, makes me wonder if there is any real difference at all.

If they could clearly tell one was clearer than the other, shouldn't that alone have helped them pick the correct one in the triangle test?

I haven't read the article yet but the chances of guessing in a triangle test is 33% (1/3). So if 50% of them are able to pick out the "different" glass then that is above chance.

 

[broadbill]

If they could clearly tell one was clearer than the other, shouldn't that alone have helped them pick the correct one in the triangle test?

Not if they weren't previously biased by knowing what the experiment was (i.e. they were told this was a experiment about trub, clarity, haze, etc.). I don't know what exactly they were told.

However, you can't discount the point that the samplers may have had an inherent bias towards the clearer beer.

In retrospect the better way to do it would have been to first ask them if there was a difference in clarity, then do the tasting from opaque cups. That way the taste sample would not be biased by a previous observation of clarity.

 

[skw]

I haven't read the article yet but the chances of guessing in a triangle test is 33% (1/3). So if 50% of them are able to pick out the "different" glass then that is above chance.

And that's why I always got bad grades in statistics!

Either way, 6 testers is a small sample size. I would read from it that there are no obvious faults from having trub in the fermenter, but to determine whether there is a real subtle difference and what that difference is, it would take more testing.

Not to discount Brulosopher's work, quite the opposite! I'm happy that he went through the trouble of testing and would welcome him to do more experiments like that!

 

[atli126]

awesome read thanks!

 

[Grossy]

When I started brewing, I was instructed by several books:

"Just pour the whole contents of the boil kettle into your fermentor."​

I have been thinking (and recently worrying) about this since I started brewing, WHY ?

Why pour everything into a fermentor, when you already have a sanitized container that your wort is sitting in, why not just ferment in the kettle?

Well I'm going to do it, 20 gallon batches.

I found 31 gallon kettles at Glacier Tanks that can be sealed up, and I going to ferment all 20 gallons of wort right in them.

I am documenting the current Garage Build, and I hope to start this method of brewing by October, 2014.


Thank you for this write-up, and thank you to Brulosopher for the experiment, it reinforces the experiments that I did (that were no way as scientific as Brulosopher's).

 

[Brulosopher]

The results of the survey regarding what my next exBEERiment should be are in. I had to do some adapting given the upcoming July 4 holiday, which happens to be my daughter's first birthday... and I need to stock up!

http://brulosophy.com/2014/06/04/exbeeriment-schedule/

 

[wilserbrewer]

Why pour everything into a fermentor, when you already have a sanitized container that your wort is sitting in, why not just ferment in the kettle?

Well I'm going to do it, 20 gallon batches.

I often ferment right in the kettle, have done it for many batches over the last several years and have found it works great yet is still "unpopular".

I simply put the lid on the kettle and begin the ferment, once I have hit high kreusen I will typically seal the kettle with a plastic bag and a string wrapped tightly around the kettle to make a good seal. Around day 10-14 I will rack to kegs and secondary for a week or so pipeline dependant.

IMHO airlocks are for aging, not for fermenting, and the fear of oxidation is over stated.

Very easy and works well IME.

 

[LLBeanJ]

IMHO airlocks are for aging, not for fermenting, and the fear of oxidation is over stated.

I completely agree. I've not used an airlock during primary for the last year and a half (30+ batches) as I've been using the airlock port for a thermowell and have not had any issues.

 

[broadbill]

I often ferment right in the kettle, have done it for many batches over the last several years and have found it works great yet is still "unpopular".

I simply put the lid on the kettle and begin the ferment, once I have hit high kreusen I will typically seal the kettle with a plastic bag and a string wrapped tightly around the kettle to make a good seal. Around day 10-14 I will rack to kegs and secondary for a week or so pipeline dependant.

IMHO airlocks are for aging, not for fermenting, and the fear of oxidation is over stated.

Very easy and works well IME.

Its probably unpopular because it ties up your brew pot for 10-14 days (or longer, if you are one of those that thinks your beer needs that extra time just sitting there).

 

[Grossy]

Its probably unpopular because it ties up your brew pot for 10-14 days (or longer, if you are one of those that thinks your beer needs that extra time just sitting there).

But there are people on this forum with $1000.00 conical fermentors. Buy another kettle.

Brew pots sell for about $75 for every 5 gallons.

The 30 Gallon kettles I purchased were $450 dollars each, I bought 4 of them.

Yes that is expensive, but I do not own a $6,000 quad, a bass boat, a gun collection, a jacked up $40,000 4x4 Ford F250. Put that in comparison and my hobby is cheap.

What this experiment is showing is that there may be a more efficient/faster way to brew, and one that has superior sanitation qualities.

 

[BulldogBrewer]

I often ferment right in the kettle, have done it for many batches over the last several years and have found it works great yet is still "unpopular".

I simply put the lid on the kettle and begin the ferment, once I have hit high kreusen I will typically seal the kettle with a plastic bag and a string wrapped tightly around the kettle to make a good seal. Around day 10-14 I will rack to kegs and secondary for a week or so pipeline dependant.

IMHO airlocks are for aging, not for fermenting, and the fear of oxidation is over stated.

Very easy and works well IME.

This is one of those things, that when it comes down to it, makes a lot of sense... We've just always been taught to transfer, etc, etc..


There's no reason this can't be the next trend in homebrewing

 

[j1n]

But there are people on this forum with $1000.00 conical fermentors. Buy another kettle.

Brew pots sell for about $75 for every 5 gallons.

The 30 Gallon kettles I purchased were $450 dollars each, I bought 4 of them.

Yes that is expensive, but I do not own a $6,000 quad, a bass boat, a gun collection, a jacked up $40,000 4x4 Ford F250. Put that in comparison and my hobby is cheap.

What this experiment is showing is that there may be a more efficient/faster way to brew, and one that has superior sanitation qualities.

Or you could just spend $25 on a 6 gallon better bottle.

 

[wilserbrewer]

Its probably unpopular because it ties up your brew pot for 10-14 days (or longer, if you are one of those that thinks your beer needs that extra time just sitting there).

Brew pots are cheap IMHO, less than $100 for a stainless 15 gallon with lid on eBay delivered. I have a slew of kettles as well. My main incentive for fermenting in the kettle is that it is easy and quick, with less transferring of the wort being more sanitary as well.

I have the funds to buy an $$$ conical and would if I thought that was the path to better beer, but I like the simple approach with less to clean and care for.


Wilserbrewer
Http://biabbags.webs.com/

 

[broadbill]

But there are people on this forum with $1000.00 conical fermentors. Buy another kettle.

Brew pots sell for about $75 for every 5 gallons.

The 30 Gallon kettles I purchased were $450 dollars each, I bought 4 of them.

Yes that is expensive, but I do not own a $6,000 quad, a bass boat, a gun collection, a jacked up $40,000 4x4 Ford F250. Put that in comparison and my hobby is cheap.

What this experiment is showing is that there may be a more efficient/faster way to brew, and one that has superior sanitation qualities.

Brew pots are cheap IMHO, less than $100 for a stainless 15 gallon with lid on eBay delivered. I have a slew of kettles as well. My main incentive for fermenting in the kettle is that it is easy and quick, with less transferring of the wort being more sanitary as well.

I have the funds to buy an $$$ conical and would if I thought that was the path to better beer, but I like the simple approach with less to clean and care for.


Wilserbrewer
Http://biabbags.webs.com/

Yeah, they are cheap (relatively speaking...it is hard to argue with a $16 bucket and having to do a wort-transfer) but the reality is most people only feel the need to buy one kettle because they can (or want to) only boil one volume of wort at a time.

Its not about the money, it about how many of each tool they need to get the job done.

 

[unionrdr]

Sounds more to me like "how little can I do & still get good beer"?

 

[LandoLincoln]

But there are people on this forum with $1000.00 conical fermentors. Buy another kettle.

Brew pots sell for about $75 for every 5 gallons.

The 30 Gallon kettles I purchased were $450 dollars each, I bought 4 of them.

Yes that is expensive, but I do not own a $6,000 quad, a bass boat, a gun collection, a jacked up $40,000 4x4 Ford F250. Put that in comparison and my hobby is cheap.

What this experiment is showing is that there may be a more efficient/faster way to brew, and one that has superior sanitation qualities.

Because my boil kettle has a sight glass, a heating element, a thermometer probe, a float switch and a dip tube with a hop screen on it. I can only imagine what a pain it would be to clean out fermentation trub from that.

 

[Brulosopher]

Brew pots are cheap IMHO, less than $100 for a stainless 15 gallon with lid on eBay delivered. I have a slew of kettles as well. My main incentive for fermenting in the kettle is that it is easy and quick, with less transferring of the wort being more sanitary as well.

I have the funds to buy an $$$ conical and would if I thought that was the path to better beer, but I like the simple approach with less to clean and care for.


Wilserbrewer
Http://biabbags.webs.com/

I've actually considered this and I'm curious how you control ferm temps- assuming move your kettle to a temp controlled chamber (or whatever)? I will definitely be trying this soon!

 

[KIAKillerXJ]

I keep my 25 gal kettle, using this technique, in a room that stays in the mid 50s, then use a heater on a temp control to keep it at my set point in the 60s


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[broadbill]

I keep my 25 gal kettle, using this technique, in a room that stays in the mid 50s, then use a heater on a temp control to keep it at my set point in the 60s


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

You keep an entire room in your house the 50s?????

 

[wilserbrewer]

I've actually considered this and I'm curious how you control ferm temps- assuming move your kettle to a temp controlled chamber (or whatever)? I will definitely be trying this soon!

During winter, my basement stays pretty cool so I just ferment right on the brew stand. During warmer months I either move to a temp controlled (ranco) fridge, or use a large I/2 of a 55 gal hdpe barrel as a swamp cooler and keep temps in range during active fermentation.

Here again I usually take the path of least resistance


Wilserbrewer
Http://biabbags.webs.com/

 

[homebrewdad]

Circling back to the actual topic of this thread, I just had the chance to sample the two beers the Brulosopher brewed for this exBEERiment. Perhaps it was shipping, perhaps it was age... but I felt like the differences between the two were more than subtle. I would have gone so far as to believe that they were different beers had I not know better.

I did a full review on my blog.

 

[unionrdr]

The whole thing seems to indicate straining or non should be taken into consideration of the style & overall qualities of a particular beer. Smooth,or crisp & well defined?...